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Engine stops after 5 minutes flight, suggestions?

Old 05-02-2019, 09:32 PM
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CARS II
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Default Engine stops after 5 minutes flight, suggestions?


This is my TXT3000 engine with a Xicoy AU 303 FEDEC.

Problem, the FEDEC stops the engine after about 5 minutes of flight ( 2 flights today with the engine stopping around 5 min of flights, landed ok, no damage )

Have flown with this set up for about 12 hrs, no, no air in the lines, batt is good ( 5K 2 cell LiPo fully charged ) look at the GSU massage and vid, give me your opinion please, I see that the PW at 288 looks very suspicious.

I will be using the Pump from my P60 ( that pump is the same up to the P200 ) and will be testing possible tomorrow.

A big thanks to my 13 years old daughter that was messing around with my phone when this happened and she was quick enough to take the videos.

Thanks for your suggestions guys.


Last edited by CARS II; 05-02-2019 at 09:59 PM.
Old 05-02-2019, 10:01 PM
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Second vid.

Old 05-03-2019, 03:48 AM
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Edgar Perez
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Worth Checking for a hole in the fuel lines inside the tank. Once fuel goes below the hole position you get air
Old 05-03-2019, 03:51 AM
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Carlos,

Check your clunk line in the tank that is partially full of fuel.

I had a similar thing happen. I started to see the problem with more and more air accumulating in the UAT. It took quite a few flights to find it but it turned out to be some microscopic cracks in the brass tubes I used for the rigid sections of the clunk line.

Once the cracks became uncovered as the final tank tan down they started to allow air into the fuel line to the engine. All the time they were covered in fuel there was no issue.

Paul
Old 05-03-2019, 04:00 AM
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gunradd
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Like others have said itís most likely a fuel issue. Along with checking the clunk line you need to check the vent for obstruction and the UAT filter for microbial growth.

I have seen seen where a clogged filter will create high suction pressure after a bit of flying then the fuel will creat itís own air bubbles. Engine flames out then the suction decreases and bubbles are gone. This will look like you have no air in the system after you dead stick land. High suction causes lots of flame outs.

Its possible but very unlikely you have a pump issue.
Old 05-03-2019, 07:41 AM
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What does your airtrap look like when you land? Which airtrap are you using?
Old 05-03-2019, 08:44 AM
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CARS II
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The UAT is full with about the normal air in it, I even had my daughter check it after the flight.

Last edited by CARS II; 05-03-2019 at 09:25 AM.
Old 05-03-2019, 09:19 AM
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gunradd
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Originally Posted by CARS II View Post
The UAT is full with the normal about of air in it, I even had my daughter check it after the flight.

if the fuel fuel is getting vapor bubbles due to high suction after the plane shuts off you wonít see any air in the system.
Old 05-03-2019, 09:37 AM
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CARS II
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Thank you all for the replies.

I sent an email to Gaspar and he like you guys agreed that it is a fuel problem and said to check my fuel lines.

last night when checking the fuel lines I noticed the fuel line between the fuel valve and the engine was totally empty, I'm not sure if it got drained during de-fueling, not likely, I run the pump to check the fuel flow, it looked good.

After finding that fuel line empty I was thinking that air may have been sucked in via the Festo shut off valve, with that in mind I refreshed the end of the fuel lines on both sides of the Festo valve and the Festo fitting by the engine by cutting them.

I will be going back to the flying field today to run the engine on the ground for at least 5 min then if all looks good, I will give it a flight.

Last edited by CARS II; 05-03-2019 at 09:47 AM.
Old 05-03-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gunradd View Post



if the fuel fuel is getting vapor bubbles due to high suction after the plane shuts off you wonít see any air in the system.
I will check the vent for any blockage.

Last edited by CARS II; 05-03-2019 at 10:08 AM.
Old 05-03-2019, 11:02 AM
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Hi Carlos, as suggested above, check fuel lines, filters, UAT without bubbles, leaks,etc in the fuel system. and change your turbine battery... usually "timed" flameouts are related to them. Sometimes the batt seems ok in the charger tests but it is not.

You must also do the fuel pump pulse test. Use your GSU to run the pump test at low and higher voltages, with the fuel line connected to the fuel can instead the turbine. You should see a steady fuel flow at all voltages, also give a gentle "shake" in the turbine systen wiring to see if you have some intermitent or inconsistent running in the pump, or any bubbles appearing in the main fuel line while emptying the tanks. In fact, I like to do this test before any maiden flight on a new jet.

I
Old 05-03-2019, 12:19 PM
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I would run the a whole tank on the ground through the fuel pump at full throttle settings back into my jersey modeler and watch every part of the fuel system. If you have tygon in your tanks for more than a year, I bet they are very stiff and may contribute as well.

I once found junk INSIDE my fuel tank tubing (always use BVís soft pliable stuff in the tanks) past the clunk that was causing me some flame outs.
Old 05-03-2019, 09:37 PM
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Ok guys, I want to say thank you for all the suggestions and recommendations on this problem.

In a nut shell, I got two flights today and both flights were normal.

Here are the deatails: I checked the vent line, it was free of any obstructions and I could blow air in and out easily.

Checked the tank fuel line and all looked good, nothing loose, Tygon line is soft and flexible, put it back in and made sure it was tight.

I prime the pump to check the fuel flow, it is strong and abundant.

For the test run on the ground, I filled the tank to about a 1/4 of fuel to see if it was was sucking air at the fuel line/fuel stopper, I run the engine for 8 mins, up and down, 1/2 throttle and all was normal, no air in the lines, I even had my daugther check the lines but, no air was seen in the lines, I was looking at the UAT and suction was normal, no blockage there, after 8 mins of running on the ground, all looked normal.

At this time it was time to take to the skies, as you will see on the video the flight went very well, no flame outs.

I will say now I'm done with the fix and I will resume normal operations on the next flight.


Last edited by CARS II; 05-03-2019 at 10:07 PM.
Old 05-04-2019, 05:05 AM
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Carlos,

Check your pump voltage at full throttle - if the UAT or filter is getting blocked the pump voltage will rise. Then back-flush the entire system to wash out any 'gunk' in the system. Look at the pump voltage again to see if it has dropped.

I have a TX alarm set to warn me if my pump voltage exceeds a threshold to serve as notice that the pump is struggling.

I have had a couple of these unexplained flame-outs and back-flushing serves as a good solution.

Paul
Old 05-04-2019, 06:46 AM
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Now that you talked about back flushing....

My fuel can has a filter on it, and I dont reverse the can pump polarity to unfuel the plane. I fisically reverse the lines in the can so the fuel flow direction is always the same in the circuit, and this makes the defueling also a filtering process.

This seems to work well, as the fuel can filter is often clogged and dirty, and the plane filter is kept clean for a long time.
Old 05-04-2019, 09:44 AM
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I also use a small gas filter in my gas can, the gas can pick up line has a fiter/clunk, the in line filter checked clean also.

I will take the UAT apart just to make sure it is absolutely clean.

Paul, I will be visiting Fort Worth in a couple weekends and will swing by the Thunder Birds field.

Tks.

Last edited by CARS II; 05-04-2019 at 09:48 AM.
Old 05-04-2019, 10:46 AM
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Carlos,

PM me when you know details - would be good to meet up - bring your scuba gear - the park that hosts the field is currently flooded and closed


Paul
Old 05-04-2019, 10:56 AM
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Glad you got it sorted, it's a sick feeling just waiting for a flame out to happen, I just got a similar issue fixed myself and I could feel my stress go down and enjoyment go up with every subsequent problem free flight.
Old 05-04-2019, 11:26 AM
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CARS II
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Paul, been there done that with a flooded field, my previous flying field gets that way now that the rains have come back to a normal here in Cali, will do on the pm.
Old 05-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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CARS II
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Andy, yeah! I felt my stress diminishing after the second flight yesterday.
Old 05-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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DAN AVILLA
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Carlos I have experienced that problem before the JetCat fuel filters plugged up you will not see it but itís a light film on their. If you put the filter to your mouth and blow lightly itíll be restricted are used contact cleaner to clean it good luck Dan Avilla
Old 05-04-2019, 11:53 AM
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CARS II
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Dan Avila is correct, I did as he suggested and found the filter restricted, hard to get air through it, I cleaned it with alcohol and a cotton tip applicator, after that it was very easy to blow air through it, as a precaution I also removed, inspected and clean the UAT, again with alcohol, don't see any algie formation in there.

At this point is all I can do is monitor the suction on the ground before going up again.

Thank you all for taking the time to post ypur suggestions.

Last edited by CARS II; 05-04-2019 at 11:56 AM.
Old 05-04-2019, 12:00 PM
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Here is a question for you guys, do you think that Diesel will increase the tendency of the fuel filter getting that clear flim compared to clear Kero?

I never experienced this clear film symptoms when using clear Kero, now that I'm using Diesel I have.
Old 05-04-2019, 12:06 PM
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I have been using bio guard I only use 10 mL per five and that illuminates algae I did have a problem my fuel can I Ended up dump it out and really clean it out
Old 05-04-2019, 12:18 PM
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Does anyone knows if the Kingtech oil has that added to it already?

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