New turbine X 45 ,by Gaspar
10-17-2019, 04:19 PM
#101
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA, USA
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One more kid on the block !
got one more the family ! It was a good old Firebird...circa 2001...brought to life with the X-45... / It had a Wren 44 and tipped the scale at 14# wet... now it does at 10# sharp, dry.. smaller tank. no header tank (it uses a large Zenoah felt clunk), not maidened yet...the computer wants to auto-correct to "maddened"...it could be 'cuase is too breezy the next few days...(note; the wing is upside down to make it easier to match the flap servos).
But at 0ne-to-uno wt/pwr what can be left behind?
Last edited by RockiesGuy; 10-17-2019 at 07:11 PM.
10-18-2019, 03:21 AM
#102
TBH I can't see why it wouldn't work in theory, as the engine is both physically smaller and lighter than the P20, whilst having lower idle thrust. I think I'll wait a bit, hopefully someone else might attempt it.
I should perhaps clarify, that if I did it, I would mount the engine externally in the same manner as in the post above.
I should perhaps clarify, that if I did it, I would mount the engine externally in the same manner as in the post above.
Also remember with the P20 above they cut away half the plane, that is not IN the Yak in my mind. My solution is installing it inside with a thrust tube, doing it as scale as possible.
Last edited by Henke Torphammar; 10-18-2019 at 03:24 AM.
10-18-2019, 02:28 PM
#105
P20 is "same size" but 100grams lighter. P20 has fairly low idle thrust as it idles at a reasonably low 85krpm.
Also remember with the P20 above they cut away half the plane, that is not IN the Yak in my mind. My solution is installing it inside with a thrust tube, doing it as scale as possible.
Also remember with the P20 above they cut away half the plane, that is not IN the Yak in my mind. My solution is installing it inside with a thrust tube, doing it as scale as possible.
Last edited by Aussie1; 10-18-2019 at 03:07 PM.
10-19-2019, 11:57 AM
#107
It reallly looks a superb example of precision engineering, and judging by the stand at JetPower plenty of development in the future.
An amazing little power house when compared with the first generation JPX on the same stand.
11-04-2019, 12:11 AM
#109
11-05-2019, 12:38 PM
#110
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ashington, UNITED KINGDOM
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Yes we do! Along with the Moon on a Stick, and that pot o'gold at the end of every rainbow.
11-09-2019, 07:30 AM
#111
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Guys; I have never said -same size-... and there is no lines in between ..but now that you mention it; not even 10 years ago the wren44 was still a wonder-weapon...today at half its size we got a couple of brands at that power or even more (consistent 45N) and at that size we got almost twice as much power on a couple of brands again! So there might some unicorns out there..
Last edited by RockiesGuy; 11-09-2019 at 07:36 AM. Reason: update
11-09-2019, 10:50 PM
#114
Does anyone know if the new 100XBL ,which also has an yellow power+ecu connector, is for 2S or 3S lipo packs?
cosmetics only or electronics also upgraded to match 166 and 210 ts turbines?
cosmetics only or electronics also upgraded to match 166 and 210 ts turbines?
11-11-2019, 03:41 AM
#118
Join Date: Apr 2010
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[QUOTE=alasdair;12561324]You surely don't expect a 70 in a case smaller than a Jetcat 20?
I want a turbine for my free flight jetex models, with at least 60N of thrust, plus afterburner, in a case the size of an AAA battery.
I want a turbine for my free flight jetex models, with at least 60N of thrust, plus afterburner, in a case the size of an AAA battery.
11-12-2019, 07:34 PM
#119
It's a pleasure meeting Gaspar! A proud new X45 owner here. I'd like to thank you for writing such an informative manual! I've studied it thoroughly, several questions however. Thinking it may be best if you had first crack at answering them yourself for other first time X45 users. A bit about myself, although the X45 will be my first turbine. I've been flying RC Electric, Gas and Nitro for 30+ years. Proficient in both rotary wing, fixed wing. Spent this past season flying 80 and 90 mm EDF. I'd also like to thank Keith of Jets Munt for supporting my order.
3. When using the Multi-Color display for ECU setup and parameter changes, can I simply unplug the unit from the HUB once completed?
a. Is the suggested sequence to power up my Tx/Rx, plug up the Multi-Color Display to the HUB, then plug up the ECU battery or can I simply plug up the Multi-Color display at any time before or after the model is powered up with the ECU battery already plugged up?
4. Regarding ECU Data Record and Playback function, does the multi-color handheld unit need to remain plugged to the Hub (remain mounted inside the aircraft) to be capable of replaying the last 66 minutes? Or can the multicolor handheld unit somehow retrieve/download all memory from the ECU for playback?
a. What voltage Rx pack should the Multi-color display be powered with for replay as a handheld unit?
b. Does the X45 ECU have an integral hour meter for service monitoring?
c. Can I somehow download the latest 51 minutes from the ECU using your viewer software for my PC?
5. What is FADEC?
6. Are there normal operating temperatures I should be expecting for both engine and EGT during idle, normal use and max throttle?
7. What is the ECU battery connector type on the HUB?
8. Can the ECU battery remain plugged to the HUB at all times, effectively a slave to RX power ON or should the ECU battery be unplugged when not in use and plugged up prior to powering up the receiver?
9. Regarding ECU Tx Alignment setup, although my transmitter, a JR 12X, is equipped with a manual throttle trim. Am I capable of assigning my trim lever to a 2 position switch instead, then proceed with alignment?
10. Regarding Fail Safe Setup, page 19, #1 states to adjust throttle travel from -100% to +100%. Then #3 states, adjust failsafe position to -125%.. Is the manual simply stating, adjust the low throttle endpoint to -125%, leaving the full throttle endpoint at +100%?
11. Per the manuals “Starting the engine”, it states to set the throttle stick down and the trim up (“idle”)..To confirm idle is always FULL UP TRIM (100%) and stop is FULL down trim (0%), correct? As mentioned above, assume I can assign such to a two position switch instead versus using my trim lever?
12. Per the manuals “During startup”, page 20 for a new installation, it suggests to initiate the 1st start then abort after 5 seconds. After doing so (assuming I've properly primed the fuel system) should I make an attempt to drain any possible fuel pooling before reactivating the start sequence or would I be defeating the purpose the 5 second abort?
a. Following, it also states “If start-up sequence is not completed, check for flame inside the engine.” Does this statement relate to a startup sequence that isn’t manually aborted?
Thank You Gaspar! Look forward to hearing from you.
Raz
- Per the manual, page 14. It states fuel pump mounting is best suited “with the pipes uppermost to minimize the possibility of trapped air bubbles”. Do you mind rephrasing? Not understanding.
3. When using the Multi-Color display for ECU setup and parameter changes, can I simply unplug the unit from the HUB once completed?
a. Is the suggested sequence to power up my Tx/Rx, plug up the Multi-Color Display to the HUB, then plug up the ECU battery or can I simply plug up the Multi-Color display at any time before or after the model is powered up with the ECU battery already plugged up?
4. Regarding ECU Data Record and Playback function, does the multi-color handheld unit need to remain plugged to the Hub (remain mounted inside the aircraft) to be capable of replaying the last 66 minutes? Or can the multicolor handheld unit somehow retrieve/download all memory from the ECU for playback?
a. What voltage Rx pack should the Multi-color display be powered with for replay as a handheld unit?
b. Does the X45 ECU have an integral hour meter for service monitoring?
c. Can I somehow download the latest 51 minutes from the ECU using your viewer software for my PC?
5. What is FADEC?
6. Are there normal operating temperatures I should be expecting for both engine and EGT during idle, normal use and max throttle?
7. What is the ECU battery connector type on the HUB?
8. Can the ECU battery remain plugged to the HUB at all times, effectively a slave to RX power ON or should the ECU battery be unplugged when not in use and plugged up prior to powering up the receiver?
9. Regarding ECU Tx Alignment setup, although my transmitter, a JR 12X, is equipped with a manual throttle trim. Am I capable of assigning my trim lever to a 2 position switch instead, then proceed with alignment?
10. Regarding Fail Safe Setup, page 19, #1 states to adjust throttle travel from -100% to +100%. Then #3 states, adjust failsafe position to -125%.. Is the manual simply stating, adjust the low throttle endpoint to -125%, leaving the full throttle endpoint at +100%?
11. Per the manuals “Starting the engine”, it states to set the throttle stick down and the trim up (“idle”)..To confirm idle is always FULL UP TRIM (100%) and stop is FULL down trim (0%), correct? As mentioned above, assume I can assign such to a two position switch instead versus using my trim lever?
12. Per the manuals “During startup”, page 20 for a new installation, it suggests to initiate the 1st start then abort after 5 seconds. After doing so (assuming I've properly primed the fuel system) should I make an attempt to drain any possible fuel pooling before reactivating the start sequence or would I be defeating the purpose the 5 second abort?
a. Following, it also states “If start-up sequence is not completed, check for flame inside the engine.” Does this statement relate to a startup sequence that isn’t manually aborted?
Thank You Gaspar! Look forward to hearing from you.
Raz
Last edited by Razmo; 11-12-2019 at 07:38 PM.
11-13-2019, 01:25 AM
#120
X 45
Gaspar is really excellent at responding to queries quickly and accurately. He offers us great support, probably the best.
But PLEASE dont overload him by asking numerous questions on issues which are dealt with in the really excellent manual, or those you can determine yourself just by running the engine, eg, egts .
Its behaviour is really excellent, exceptionally good, in fact, and its operation simplicity personified.
If you are new to turbines may I suggest you discuss such operations with someone of experience. Gas turbine operation is not at all difficult but it is different to piston or electric ops.
But PLEASE dont overload him by asking numerous questions on issues which are dealt with in the really excellent manual, or those you can determine yourself just by running the engine, eg, egts .
Its behaviour is really excellent, exceptionally good, in fact, and its operation simplicity personified.
If you are new to turbines may I suggest you discuss such operations with someone of experience. Gas turbine operation is not at all difficult but it is different to piston or electric ops.
11-13-2019, 03:46 AM
#121
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FADEC
Regarding Q9,
Personal preference.
I have used several ways. I started by using the trim, which takes a couple of seconds to run. KISS. Then changed to a 2 position switch which is instant, but was worried that knocking it by accident in flight would be an instant deadstick.
I recently found a better way. On my Taranis Tx which has voice, I use switch SG, a 3-position switch.
I leave the throttle trim full up. I set TWO positions of the switch to RUN and the third to STOP.
I use the two end positions for switching on and off the engine, and I set the voice to tell me "throttle active" or "throttle disabled" in each position. If I accidentally move the switch to the middle position I get the "throttle active" voice warning which prompts me to put it back to the RUN end position. I have to move it twice, deliberately, with a voice warning half way, to shut down the engine.
On a Tx with sound I can recommend this system.
Last edited by alasdair; 11-13-2019 at 04:04 AM.
11-13-2019, 06:48 AM
#122
Thanks,
Raz
11-13-2019, 07:11 AM
#123
here's an answer from Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FADEC
Regarding Q9,
Personal preference.
I have used several ways. I started by using the trim, which takes a couple of seconds to run. KISS. Then changed to a 2 position switch which is instant, but was worried that knocking it by accident in flight would be an instant deadstick.
I recently found a better way. On my Taranis Tx which has voice, I use switch SG, a 3-position switch.
I leave the throttle trim full up. I set TWO positions of the switch to RUN and the third to STOP.
I use the two end positions for switching on and off the engine, and I set the voice to tell me "throttle active" or "throttle disabled" in each position. If I accidentally move the switch to the middle position I get the "throttle active" voice warning which prompts me to put it back to the RUN end position. I have to move it twice, deliberately, with a voice warning half way, to shut down the engine.
On a Tx with sound I can recommend this system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FADEC
Regarding Q9,
Personal preference.
I have used several ways. I started by using the trim, which takes a couple of seconds to run. KISS. Then changed to a 2 position switch which is instant, but was worried that knocking it by accident in flight would be an instant deadstick.
I recently found a better way. On my Taranis Tx which has voice, I use switch SG, a 3-position switch.
I leave the throttle trim full up. I set TWO positions of the switch to RUN and the third to STOP.
I use the two end positions for switching on and off the engine, and I set the voice to tell me "throttle active" or "throttle disabled" in each position. If I accidentally move the switch to the middle position I get the "throttle active" voice warning which prompts me to put it back to the RUN end position. I have to move it twice, deliberately, with a voice warning half way, to shut down the engine.
On a Tx with sound I can recommend this system.
.. Quick question, if your trim lever function is mapped to a 3 position switch, it doesn't matter where your trim lever is, right? Isn't in inhibited once mapped? I had intended to always leave it full down (0%) using the switch OFF/ON.. Raz
11-13-2019, 09:39 AM
#124
It's a pleasure meeting Gaspar! A proud new X45 owner here. I'd like to thank you for writing such an informative manual! I've studied it thoroughly, several questions however. Thinking it may be best if you had first crack at answering them yourself for other first time X45 users. A bit about myself, although the X45 will be my first turbine. I've been flying RC Electric, Gas and Nitro for 30+ years. Proficient in both rotary wing, fixed wing. Spent this past season flying 80 and 90 mm EDF. I'd also like to thank Keith of Jets Munt for supporting my order.
3. When using the Multi-Color display for ECU setup and parameter changes, can I simply unplug the unit from the HUB once completed?<--------------------Yes
a. Is the suggested sequence to power up my Tx/Rx, plug up the Multi-Color Display to the HUB, then plug up the ECU battery or can I simply plug up the Multi-Color display at any time before or after the model is powered up with the ECU battery already plugged up?<------------I always plug in the ECU battery before powering on the RX/Model Display can be plugged in at any time
4. Regarding ECU Data Record and Playback function, does the multi-color handheld unit need to remain plugged to the Hub (remain mounted inside the aircraft) to be capable of replaying the last 66 minutes? Or can the multicolor handheld unit somehow retrieve/download all memory from the ECU for playback? <----------------------to get the data it needs to remain plugged in
a. What voltage Rx pack should the Multi-color display be powered with for replay as a handheld unit?
b. Does the X45 ECU have an integral hour meter for service monitoring? <---------This is stored in the motor itself and not the ECU
c. Can I somehow download the latest 51 minutes from the ECU using your viewer software for my PC?<-----------------the Display has a slot for a mini SD
5. What is FADEC?<---------its the ECU, brains of the motor, common in aviation for jet engines to be controlled by a computer instead of manually controlling it for things like start and shutdown
6. Are there normal operating temperatures I should be expecting for both engine and EGT during idle, normal use and max throttle? <-----------you will see EGT during operation
7. What is the ECU battery connector type on the HUB? <------------XT60 connector but you can put what ever you like, I have a XT60toDeans on mine
8. Can the ECU battery remain plugged to the HUB at all times, effectively a slave to RX power ON or should the ECU battery be unplugged when not in use and plugged up prior to powering up the receiver? <---------------------I leave the turbine battery plugged in and when Im not at the field flying it I unplug it
9. Regarding ECU Tx Alignment setup, although my transmitter, a JR 12X, is equipped with a manual throttle trim. Am I capable of assigning my trim lever to a 2 position switch instead, then proceed with alignment?
10. Regarding Fail Safe Setup, page 19, #1 states to adjust throttle travel from -100% to +100%. Then #3 states, adjust failsafe position to -125%.. Is the manual simply stating, adjust the low throttle endpoint to -125%, leaving the full throttle endpoint at +100%?
11. Per the manuals “Starting the engine”, it states to set the throttle stick down and the trim up (“idle”)..To confirm idle is always FULL UP TRIM (100%) and stop is FULL down trim (0%), correct? As mentioned above, assume I can assign such to a two position switch instead versus using my trim lever? <----------------trim up and stick at idle is the ready to start state or idle if running. To shut down stick idle and trim down, trim down full stick will spin the motor for cooling but nothing else
12. Per the manuals “During startup”, page 20 for a new installation, it suggests to initiate the 1st start then abort after 5 seconds. After doing so (assuming I've properly primed the fuel system) should I make an attempt to drain any possible fuel pooling before reactivating the start sequence or would I be defeating the purpose the 5 second abort? <--------------never done this but I think starting after that is fine, this is allowing fuel to get through the system because when you prime I recommend disconnecting the fuel line. This leaves from the festo to the combustion chamber empty, hence the 5 sec stated in manual
a. Following, it also states “If start-up sequence is not completed, check for flame inside the engine.” Does this statement relate to a startup sequence that isn’t manually aborted? <-----------because any fuel in the motor can still be burning so you may need to spin the starter to blow this out.
Thank You Gaspar! Look forward to hearing from you.
Raz
- Per the manual, page 14. It states fuel pump mounting is best suited “with the pipes uppermost to minimize the possibility of trapped air bubbles”. Do you mind rephrasing? Not understanding.<----------- keeping the pump and filters mounted vertically will help prevent and air bubbles from getting trapped in the system. Not a must just a tip for success, I mount mine horizontally most of the time and do okay.
3. When using the Multi-Color display for ECU setup and parameter changes, can I simply unplug the unit from the HUB once completed?<--------------------Yes
a. Is the suggested sequence to power up my Tx/Rx, plug up the Multi-Color Display to the HUB, then plug up the ECU battery or can I simply plug up the Multi-Color display at any time before or after the model is powered up with the ECU battery already plugged up?<------------I always plug in the ECU battery before powering on the RX/Model Display can be plugged in at any time
4. Regarding ECU Data Record and Playback function, does the multi-color handheld unit need to remain plugged to the Hub (remain mounted inside the aircraft) to be capable of replaying the last 66 minutes? Or can the multicolor handheld unit somehow retrieve/download all memory from the ECU for playback? <----------------------to get the data it needs to remain plugged in
a. What voltage Rx pack should the Multi-color display be powered with for replay as a handheld unit?
b. Does the X45 ECU have an integral hour meter for service monitoring? <---------This is stored in the motor itself and not the ECU
c. Can I somehow download the latest 51 minutes from the ECU using your viewer software for my PC?<-----------------the Display has a slot for a mini SD
5. What is FADEC?<---------its the ECU, brains of the motor, common in aviation for jet engines to be controlled by a computer instead of manually controlling it for things like start and shutdown
6. Are there normal operating temperatures I should be expecting for both engine and EGT during idle, normal use and max throttle? <-----------you will see EGT during operation
7. What is the ECU battery connector type on the HUB? <------------XT60 connector but you can put what ever you like, I have a XT60toDeans on mine
8. Can the ECU battery remain plugged to the HUB at all times, effectively a slave to RX power ON or should the ECU battery be unplugged when not in use and plugged up prior to powering up the receiver? <---------------------I leave the turbine battery plugged in and when Im not at the field flying it I unplug it
9. Regarding ECU Tx Alignment setup, although my transmitter, a JR 12X, is equipped with a manual throttle trim. Am I capable of assigning my trim lever to a 2 position switch instead, then proceed with alignment?
10. Regarding Fail Safe Setup, page 19, #1 states to adjust throttle travel from -100% to +100%. Then #3 states, adjust failsafe position to -125%.. Is the manual simply stating, adjust the low throttle endpoint to -125%, leaving the full throttle endpoint at +100%?
11. Per the manuals “Starting the engine”, it states to set the throttle stick down and the trim up (“idle”)..To confirm idle is always FULL UP TRIM (100%) and stop is FULL down trim (0%), correct? As mentioned above, assume I can assign such to a two position switch instead versus using my trim lever? <----------------trim up and stick at idle is the ready to start state or idle if running. To shut down stick idle and trim down, trim down full stick will spin the motor for cooling but nothing else
12. Per the manuals “During startup”, page 20 for a new installation, it suggests to initiate the 1st start then abort after 5 seconds. After doing so (assuming I've properly primed the fuel system) should I make an attempt to drain any possible fuel pooling before reactivating the start sequence or would I be defeating the purpose the 5 second abort? <--------------never done this but I think starting after that is fine, this is allowing fuel to get through the system because when you prime I recommend disconnecting the fuel line. This leaves from the festo to the combustion chamber empty, hence the 5 sec stated in manual
a. Following, it also states “If start-up sequence is not completed, check for flame inside the engine.” Does this statement relate to a startup sequence that isn’t manually aborted? <-----------because any fuel in the motor can still be burning so you may need to spin the starter to blow this out.
Thank You Gaspar! Look forward to hearing from you.
Raz
Here are those other questions 1. After priming the fuel system per the manual, is the filling process to be sure fuel is OFF and fill until fuel spills from the overflow vent? <---- on my X45 I dont use a taxi tank and just stop feeling before it gets to the top and flows out the vent. My larger models I use the taxi tank because u need all the fuel possible and at events you end up having to wait to get out to fly. This way you know you have completely full tanks when u roll out.
2. Although I wouldn’t plan for it, can the UAT act as a reserve fuel source in the event I mistakenly ran the main dry? I’m aiming for an 800ml fuel tank and roughly 7 to 8 minute flights. <-------Yes if you're using a normal size UAT on the 45 vs the little mini I mentioned, you want get much time out of it and remember it will only draw fuel until a point. Once the fuel level is down to the pick point(generally mid tank) it will suck air. 3. You had suggested the BVM Hi-Flow clunk and Hi-Flow fuel tubing for fuel pickup inside the main tank. Was it that you felt Hi-Flow equipment could be of a benefit somehow or for some other reason? I’m confused as to whether Hi-Flow is larger tubing and/or whether I’ll need compatible fuel barbs for such?<---------I always over do it on the fuel system and recommend going as large as you can on the vent side to keep pump pressure down. The X45 doesnt need hiflow just a personal liking for me. Just remember your system is only as good as the smallest inner diameter in the system.
4. Should I use lock-wire on all the exterior nipples of the fuel system? Can I use medium sized fuel clamps instead? <-----------Yes 5. What would be the reason to switch between Kerosene and Diesel? Page 12 of the manual mentions the convenience of not needing to make a selection every time you switch fuels. Does switching fuels have something to do with OAT and field elevation variations for optimal performance? <--------- the new ecus are really good at compensating and adjusting for various fuels, but you may need to adjust pump PW slightly depending
6. The manual doesn’t state Jet A, just Kerosene or Diesel, but it doesn’t say don’t use Jet A? Is Jet A essentially Kerosene? <--------I use Jet A, no worries
7. Per the manual, page 10, #8 and #9.. It talks as if Tygon fuel line isn’t an optimal choice on the suction side and certainly cannot be used on the deliver side. Is there an optimal choice for both the suction and delivery side? I assume it should all be 4mm, correct? <--------- No wrong answer here, I have used both, some dont use tygon on since it gets hard over time, and the worry on suction is being soft it could get a bend or collapse under suction. I personally havent had any problems.
8. Per BVM tips, he suggests the fuel filter always be “vertical” to the models longitudinal axis. Does he mean parallel? Thoughts? <---------I think this is for bubble prevention but not 100% there plus it does store fuel like a small header tank depending on your filter size.
9. Curious if you’ve used the Hobby Eagle A3 Super 3 on any of your turbines? I’ve been using one my stock 6S 12 blade Avanti and it performs flawlessly, very easy to setup along with an ASSAN AG61 or AG63 for nose steering and braking. <-----no experience on this sorry
10. Is there a fuel clearing/maintenance process prior to loading up the aircraft to be hangered and/or stored for the winter months? Should I expect to keep the fuel system primed forward of the shutoff valve, while removing what I can from the UAT and Main during the summer months?<---------I defuel but leave the UATs full of fuel during no fly times
Cheers
11-14-2019, 02:09 PM
#125
Appreciate it Alasdair! I too thought about an accidental switch bump and also prefer the use of a switch. I like the idea of using a 3-position switch and voice alerts would be nice to have .. Quick question, if your trim lever function is mapped to a 3 position switch, it doesn't matter where your trim lever is, right? Isn't in inhibited once mapped? I had intended to always leave it full down (0%) using the switch OFF/ON..
Raz
.. Quick question, if your trim lever function is mapped to a 3 position switch, it doesn't matter where your trim lever is, right? Isn't in inhibited once mapped? I had intended to always leave it full down (0%) using the switch OFF/ON..Raz
I just wanted to mention that a 3 position switch, with the centre position as a "voice warning " might be a good idea.
I use the throttle idle with full up trim as the engine idle position when "teaching" the Tx. Then the "Throttle cut" switch has the 'engine off' command as its end (fully up for me) position, the other two keep idle command.
If you keep the throttle trim fully down 0%, how do you set an idle command? You're on your own there.