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Discussion: Antenna position

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Discussion: Antenna position

Old 06-27-2020, 12:56 AM
  #26  
David Gladwin
 
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Originally Posted by jsnipes View Post
See post #2.

Glad that you did not lose your plane!

This is a link to a pretty good and relevant article. https://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-antenna.html

Key takeaways from article relative to this discussion ..


(I would have swapped the red and green to show the tip of the antenna as red, but you get the point.)

In short, our RF link will be:
  • Strongest when both the Radio & Receiver antennas are parallel to each other.
  • Weaker when they are perpendicular to each other.
  • Very weak when pointed ends on, directly at each other.
Thats an interesting article but very surprised it does not mention patch antennae.

The Weatronics system was/is highly regarded for its robust Rf performance Using patches on the tx and later on receivers..Using the data recording facility, LQI, etc of the Weatronics I extensively tested one patch on a Gizmo rx with the other antenna just the monopole. The patch produced significantly better results. I have examined the recorded data of well over 1000 Turbine flights, never a single problem recorded or experienced, I know they work, empirical data confirms it.

Although I have the highest regards for Jeti ( which I would have bought jf Core had not arrived) arguably the current. state of the art radio is the PowerBox Core much of which is based on Weatronics , ( which company was bought by PPB after the death of the Wea owner) and which uses dual patch antennae.

So, I wonder, why Futaba etc have not switched to patches which clearly improve both range whilst removing that cone of silence as well as being physically more robust. the Core using the handle to house the patches

Last edited by David Gladwin; 06-27-2020 at 12:58 AM.
Old 06-27-2020, 01:06 AM
  #27  
bodywerks
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Originally Posted by CARS II View Post
Out of curiosity I crack open my radio to check on the antenna, looks good and here is how I secure the antennas on all my installs.

Antennas next to fuel is bad. Another reason I don't run Futaba, only two receiver antennas(again, unless you want two receivers). Best to AT LEAST cover the X, Y, and Z axis. With Futaba you can only cover two, and you only have one TX antenna

Last edited by bodywerks; 06-27-2020 at 01:15 AM.
Old 06-27-2020, 01:48 AM
  #28  
Bob_B
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Originally Posted by Auburn02 View Post
Why? I don't have any set up like that but I've heard not to install them alongside wiring, near a pump, not on carbon, keep them 90 degrees to each other, etc - not having one up against a plastic fuel tank never came up. Will a full tank block signal?
The fuel will impact the antennas reception.
Old 06-27-2020, 04:54 AM
  #29  
wfield0455
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Not sure how much impact fuel has on reception but it's always been one of the things I avoid. I wouldn't run that lead right between the tank and header like that. I'd suggest doing something like relocating the receiver slightly to one side and running 1 antenna as close to vertical as possible up that bulk head you have it zip ties to and the other (between the tanks) I would flip 180 degrees and lay it horizontal on the platform the rx is mounted on near the opposite edge near where the air connector is laying.. Of course this suggestion is based on just a photo of 1 small portion of the airplane so it may not be great either.

Things I avoid, fuel tanks, electronics, metal, carbon fiber. I simply try to get them 90 degrees apart and as far a part as possible. I also try to visualize the model from different angles and see if I think any of the things I mentions above can get into a position where they can get between the transmitter and both antennas. I find that keeping them as far a part as possible helps reduce the possibility of both antennas being shadowed by any single object in the airplane.

Last edited by wfield0455; 06-27-2020 at 05:00 AM.
Old 06-27-2020, 05:59 AM
  #30  
MaJ. Woody
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I am going to try this tomorrow when i fly my Hellcat...



Old 06-27-2020, 06:02 AM
  #31  
MaJ. Woody
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This is my second option but I am thinking the downward angle shown above may paint a better picture.



Old 06-27-2020, 08:30 AM
  #32  
CraigG
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Originally Posted by MaJ. Woody View Post
This is my second option but I am thinking the downward angle shown above may paint a better picture.


If you point the antenna at your head, as in this option, you are pretty much guaranteed you will never have the "dead zone" pointed at the airplane (unless you have eyes in the back of your head).
Old 06-27-2020, 02:33 PM
  #33  
CARS II
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I flew my P47 with the antenna pointing at my head and all was good.
Old 06-27-2020, 03:52 PM
  #34  
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Thanks to both of you for your reply.
Old 06-27-2020, 08:33 PM
  #35  
ravill
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Carlos, you know what your next step is. ;-)
Old 06-27-2020, 10:00 PM
  #36  
CARS II
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I do now DR:Cito
Old 06-28-2020, 12:58 PM
  #37  
CARS II
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It looks like one of these is coming my way in a couple months or so.
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:33 PM
  #38  
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I flew my Giant Scale Helllcat 5 times today with the Transmitter antenna pointed forward and down 45 degrees and the connection was rock solid. I will try that with my Jet next week and see how it goes.


Old 06-28-2020, 03:04 PM
  #39  
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Excellent choice. There is suppose to be a Gen 2 of the DS-16 coming out soon so donít know if you were aware of that or not.
Danny Melnik at AeroPanda is super friendly, very knowledgeable, and helpful. I would suggest giving him a call if you have not already purchased it.
Check out the videos that HarryC did on YouTube. Also very very helpful.
JS

Originally Posted by CARS II View Post
It looks like one of these is coming my way in a couple months or so.
Old 06-28-2020, 03:15 PM
  #40  
CARS II
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Thanks, good to know, yeah! Raffy will stab me in the back if I buy another Futaba good thing is he flies Jeti, he can answer my questions regarding the programs, I will give Danny a call soon and will also watch the vids.

Flying my Boomer on Fri, this time with the antenna up.

Last edited by CARS II; 06-28-2020 at 03:20 PM.
Old 06-28-2020, 03:36 PM
  #41  
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Good luck...hope all goes well! Give us a flight report!
Always good to have a buddy with the same system to bounce ideas off of locally.
You’ll quickly love the Jeti system!
JS

Originally Posted by CARS II View Post
Thanks, good to know, yeah! Raffy will stab me in the back if I buy another Futaba good thing is he flies Jeti, he can answer my questions regarding the programs, I will give Danny a call soon and will also watch the vids.

Flying my Boomer on Fri, this time with the antenna up.
Old 06-28-2020, 04:58 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by CARS II View Post
After reading some of the threads, I will start using the radio this way, since I can't point it donward on this radio.
Carlos/Dom, this is the antenna position I've been flying with my 18MZ for the past eight years and never had a FS in the air. Now ground range with Futaba is another story. If you go long on takeoff or landing, you may have a FS.
Old 06-28-2020, 05:40 PM
  #43  
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I guess that can happen with any system.

I like to position an antenna as high as possible in my jets to try and avoid this as well as to provide good antenna diversity/orientation to the Tx. In the pic below you can see my primary Rx antennas are on a mast that extends to the highest point of the canopy.

JS





Originally Posted by Afterburners View Post
If you go long on takeoff or landing, you may have a FS.
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:34 PM
  #44  
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Just curious what's other peoples thoughts on the Spektrum AR12 and AR20310T receivers with 3 remote receivers?, while I think Spektrum are going down the road of "gimmicky features" that personally don't use or see a need, but I've yet to run into any big issues with losing signal with them. There in my 3 Bandits, BVM Rafale and when I get my Ultra Bandit Evo I will also have installed. I like the remote receivers, I have them placed within the various sections of the airframe away from servo leads or any carbon, I've used them with the iX12 and now the iX20 and yet to have an issue.
Old 06-28-2020, 07:54 PM
  #45  
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In my opinion, regardless of brand path diversity is a good thing.
You can then use the data for each Rx during range check and initial flights to confirm each Rx position is optimized.
JS


Originally Posted by F900 View Post
Just curious what's other peoples thoughts on the Spektrum AR12 and AR20310T receivers with 3 remote receivers?, while I think Spektrum are going down the road of "gimmicky features" that personally don't use or see a need, but I've yet to run into any big issues with losing signal with them. There in my 3 Bandits, BVM Rafale and when I get my Ultra Bandit Evo I will also have installed. I like the remote receivers, I have them placed within the various sections of the airframe away from servo leads or any carbon, I've used them with the iX12 and now the iX20 and yet to have an issue.
Old 06-28-2020, 08:08 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by F900 View Post
Just curious what's other peoples thoughts on the Spektrum AR12 and AR20310T receivers with 3 remote receivers?, while I think Spektrum are going down the road of "gimmicky features" that personally don't use or see a need, but I've yet to run into any big issues with losing signal with them. There in my 3 Bandits, BVM Rafale and when I get my Ultra Bandit Evo I will also have installed. I like the remote receivers, I have them placed within the various sections of the airframe away from servo leads or any carbon, I've used them with the iX12 and now the iX20 and yet to have an issue.
AR12310T are all I run in my jets. What do you find "gimicky" about them. While I don't use a gyro, the integrated, tx-adjustable AS3000 is a game-changer IMO, if you want a gyro. It's a half ounce and doesn't require a bunch of jumper cables. The powersafe feature also hardly a gimmick - IMO, it's essential. I cringe when I see a guy running futaba or any other standard-type receiver with 11+ servos/functions powered by one single 22awg servo connector plugged into the rx buss. Quadruple signal path redundancy and built-in telemetry? Also not a gimmick, IMO...
Old 06-28-2020, 08:21 PM
  #47  
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Sorry I should of been more clear I was referring more to the Android OS features for the iX12/20 radios, nearly all my jets have the AS3000 which I find as simple as it can get but very effective and useful and which huge plus. I will try the cortex pro gyro very soon and I have always wondered how it compares to the AS3000 for simple gyro functions. As for telemetry, I'm focused on watching my jet than looking down at a screen that's glared out due the sun lol .. yes you do have a voice option but I don't really use it.
Old 06-28-2020, 08:43 PM
  #48  
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I had a chance to play and learn a DX18QQ with a AR12310T, lots if nice fixtures on this receiver and radio that I could use that my Futaba doesn't have, it was installed on a King Cat I refurbish some 6 months ago, the remote antennas were located around the fuselage to have a complete signal coverage plus the two receiver antennas, no way that receiver can miss a signal from the radio, after I was done with the install I decided that I liked the 18X way better than my Futaba but I had used Spectrum before and decided not to use it again, the Jeti brand had been in my mind for some time now, Raffy was the little push I needed to make up my mind to get one.

Last edited by CARS II; 06-28-2020 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:08 PM
  #49  
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Old 06-29-2020, 12:18 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by F900 View Post
Sorry I should of been more clear I was referring more to the Android OS features for the iX12/20 radios, nearly all my jets have the AS3000 which I find as simple as it can get but very effective and useful and which huge plus. I will try the cortex pro gyro very soon and I have always wondered how it compares to the AS3000 for simple gyro functions. As for telemetry, I'm focused on watching my jet than looking down at a screen that's glared out due the sun lol .. yes you do have a voice option but I don't really use it.
Different entirely then, lol. I run the ix12. When I first got it I was still setting models up on my dx18 and then just copying them over to the ix. But over time the ix12 just got so intuitive. It's literally the simplest radio to use and set up, and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the other things it can do, given it runs on an android operating system(which opens up all sorts of 'gimmicky' possibilities, for sure but coll nonetheless). But it is a finicky system built on an entirely incapable processor, that's for sure. I'd have the ix20 if it wasn't so uncomfortable and out of balance...(hint hint Spektrum - stuff that operating system in a dx20 carcass and make it balance the same!).
Voice telemetry has saved me twice in just a couple months! Once when I had a flameout in flight at a noisy field(other aircraft noise so I couldn't really hear my jet). When I heard "LOW RPM" I immediately pulled vertical to gain altitude and set up for landing, and would have been able to land safely due to the ample warning, but luckily auto-restart kicked in as well. The other time, I had just taken off and only been flying for a minute when telemetry yelled "ECU battery 9.8 volts, ECU battery 9.7 volts, ECU battery 9.1 volts...". I landed uneventfully and, sure enough, the ECU battery had a cell go bad. I'll never not run voice telemetry again.

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