Xicoy 120/90
08-28-2022, 06:11 PM
#26
My Feedback: (2)
In Denver Colorado the high mile city, we wished these turbines worked at the higher altitudes, from what I have personally seen and heard the experience here in Colorado has been the following, X45 flame outs, X85 hot start (partial user error), X120 issues starting and turbine shutting down on take off.
Now before you start jumping on the bandwagon, micro turbines operate very different at higher alts, now factor in the summer and when density alt can reach close to 10,000ft. Our experience here in Colorado has been not great with them, anyone who's owned one have sold them. Personally I had high hopes and my plan was to buy the x90 and x180, I was sold on the sensor that auto calibrates temps and atmospheric pressures, less to mess with.
Competition is always great and Xicoy do sell quality products. I'm interested to hear why were not having the same success as others?, IMO I think a lot has to do with the diameter of the compressor area and how much air flow is going through, bigger the diameter less issues for us it would seem. There are other known manufacture's that have the same issues, one particularly the smaller versions won't work, while the midsize and larger turbines operate very well.
Now before you start jumping on the bandwagon, micro turbines operate very different at higher alts, now factor in the summer and when density alt can reach close to 10,000ft. Our experience here in Colorado has been not great with them, anyone who's owned one have sold them. Personally I had high hopes and my plan was to buy the x90 and x180, I was sold on the sensor that auto calibrates temps and atmospheric pressures, less to mess with.
Competition is always great and Xicoy do sell quality products. I'm interested to hear why were not having the same success as others?, IMO I think a lot has to do with the diameter of the compressor area and how much air flow is going through, bigger the diameter less issues for us it would seem. There are other known manufacture's that have the same issues, one particularly the smaller versions won't work, while the midsize and larger turbines operate very well.
08-28-2022, 08:14 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by jvaliensi
It appears Xicoy is releasing a few new models. X60 and X225 appear to be brand new, and the X90 is derated to X85.
I check the spec's between an X90 and X85, dimensional and weight wise the models appear identical. However, the max RPM is reduced by 2k and the idle is up 3k.
I do wonder why? Was 90N too much for the turbine and folks were having early failures? Or was the X90 never truly capable of 90N and Gaspar is just keeping it real?
Should I set my max RMP down 2,000 to be safe?
Home
I check the spec's between an X90 and X85, dimensional and weight wise the models appear identical. However, the max RPM is reduced by 2k and the idle is up 3k.
I do wonder why? Was 90N too much for the turbine and folks were having early failures? Or was the X90 never truly capable of 90N and Gaspar is just keeping it real?
Should I set my max RMP down 2,000 to be safe?
Home
My X90 have always had 48k as idle and in the X85 info it says idle 48k...
08-29-2022, 04:26 AM
#28
My Feedback: (1)
Xicoy took down the X90 data, But I found it at FB-RC's site. I cannot say if it is correct, I just copied it.
Originally Posted by Danneman
I wonder where you got the info of idle is up 3k?
My X90 have always had 48k as idle and in the X85 info it says idle 48k...
My X90 have always had 48k as idle and in the X85 info it says idle 48k...
08-29-2022, 07:15 AM
#30
Originally Posted by highhorse
How so?
08-29-2022, 08:52 AM
#31
OK guys, let’s fill this information gap with information straight from Gaspar. I will cut/paste his exact email to me below, but what it boils down to is this:
1) Some 90’s were not making specced thrust during pre-ship testing, and those slowed down the manufacturing process while they were culled and rebuilt to ensure full performance prior to delivery.
2) The 85’s are PHYSICALLY the EXACT SAME ENGINE, but the advertised specs are slightly de-rated to a more conservative figure so as to allow shipping of all rather than most of the engines. The more conservative specs mean that all 85’s will meet advertised performance and some will exceed those numbers, without slowing production and delivery to re-work the few engines that weren’t performing.
3) The 90’s currently on order and awaiting delivery will indeed be 90’s, and not 85’s. After the backlog clears, 90’s will be discontinued and 85’s will take their place.
Gaspar replied to my query on this topic within hours and was very forthcoming. This has only strengthened my my trust in the brand, and made me wish that all manufacturers within our hobby were so responsive.
Here is his reply to me in full…….
Hello Don,
No, if you ordered X90s, you will get them.
The reason of the change is that during production, some of the engines don't arrive to the minimum power required, this cause that some nicely running engines being rejected on test, dissembled, tweaked and tested again. We see that this process often mean more than one rebuild until the engine is compliant, wasting the time necessary to build 3 engines. So, from now, the engines that are a bit short of power will be sold as X85, so that the production of new engines would continue at normal speed without need to repeat work already done. Once the orders of X90 fulfilled, then we will discontinue it. This mean that some X85 will have more than 85N, but for mass production is the optimum situation, not having to reject engines and keeping the production flowing without interruptions.
Hope is clear ,
Gaspar
1) Some 90’s were not making specced thrust during pre-ship testing, and those slowed down the manufacturing process while they were culled and rebuilt to ensure full performance prior to delivery.
2) The 85’s are PHYSICALLY the EXACT SAME ENGINE, but the advertised specs are slightly de-rated to a more conservative figure so as to allow shipping of all rather than most of the engines. The more conservative specs mean that all 85’s will meet advertised performance and some will exceed those numbers, without slowing production and delivery to re-work the few engines that weren’t performing.
3) The 90’s currently on order and awaiting delivery will indeed be 90’s, and not 85’s. After the backlog clears, 90’s will be discontinued and 85’s will take their place.
Gaspar replied to my query on this topic within hours and was very forthcoming. This has only strengthened my my trust in the brand, and made me wish that all manufacturers within our hobby were so responsive.
Here is his reply to me in full…….
Hello Don,
No, if you ordered X90s, you will get them.
The reason of the change is that during production, some of the engines don't arrive to the minimum power required, this cause that some nicely running engines being rejected on test, dissembled, tweaked and tested again. We see that this process often mean more than one rebuild until the engine is compliant, wasting the time necessary to build 3 engines. So, from now, the engines that are a bit short of power will be sold as X85, so that the production of new engines would continue at normal speed without need to repeat work already done. Once the orders of X90 fulfilled, then we will discontinue it. This mean that some X85 will have more than 85N, but for mass production is the optimum situation, not having to reject engines and keeping the production flowing without interruptions.
Hope is clear ,
Gaspar
Last edited by highhorse; 08-29-2022 at 08:55 AM.
The following 3 users liked this post by highhorse:
08-29-2022, 10:29 AM
#33
Thread Starter
How refreshing to see a manufacturer being totally honest and clearly living in the real world !
His statements make eminent sense and serves to reinforce my trust in this brand, which I am confident will be, is, the Porsche/ BMW of model turbines !
To add to my 45 and two 120s I have a 90 and 180 on order, the 90/85 will be reviewed in RCJI as soon as Gaspar can deliver and installed for flight evaluation in my Paritech DG 300 glider and a BVM BobCat XL.
The 180 will be installed on my BVM F4 replacing the AMT Pegasus. Much less weight, more thrust and lower burn!
What could be better ?
His statements make eminent sense and serves to reinforce my trust in this brand, which I am confident will be, is, the Porsche/ BMW of model turbines !
To add to my 45 and two 120s I have a 90 and 180 on order, the 90/85 will be reviewed in RCJI as soon as Gaspar can deliver and installed for flight evaluation in my Paritech DG 300 glider and a BVM BobCat XL.
The 180 will be installed on my BVM F4 replacing the AMT Pegasus. Much less weight, more thrust and lower burn!
What could be better ?
08-29-2022, 11:00 AM
#34
…the Porsche/ BMW of model turbines !
08-29-2022, 01:25 PM
#35
Originally Posted by highhorse
While not wanting to hijack this thread into an automotive discussion, Since I own one of his turbines already with two more on order, can’t help saying that I for one am NOT hoping that Gaspar’s goal is to create an over-priced, unreliable, and ridiculously expensive to maintain product :-)
08-29-2022, 09:33 PM
#36
Xicoy and diesel fuel
Can someone answer the question regarding the use of diesel fuel in Xicoy turbines. When I purchased my X45 it was advertised to run on kerosene, Jet A, and diesel. I recently looked and now it is only advertised for kerosene. I had some issues initially with mine and I sent it in and everything was straightened out. I run diesel on all my turbines and that is not going to change. Diesel is easily accessible for me to purchase. I also noticed even on the bigger turbines it now says, "can run diesel but not suggested". I was considering a bigger Xicoy turbine for another project but the statement they are saying about diesel makes me feel uncomfortable, like I need to start looking elsewhere for turbines that run fine on diesel. So, when and why did diesel become a no-go for Xicoy turbines? I specifically purchased my X45 because it was the only 45 that claimed it could run on diesel and now the script has been flipped.
08-30-2022, 10:04 AM
#38
Originally Posted by highhorse
Well as with another recently posted question you can get a lot of guessed-at answers here, or you can do what i did - go to the main Xicoy site and contact Gaspar for the straight scoop.
Last edited by FenderBean; 08-30-2022 at 10:06 AM.
08-30-2022, 10:31 AM
#39
My Feedback: (1)
Originally Posted by pcskyhi
Can someone answer the question regarding the use of diesel fuel in Xicoy turbines. When I purchased my X45 it was advertised to run on kerosene, Jet A, and diesel. I recently looked and now it is only advertised for kerosene. I had some issues initially with mine and I sent it in and everything was straightened out. I run diesel on all my turbines and that is not going to change. Diesel is easily accessible for me to purchase. I also noticed even on the bigger turbines it now says, "can run diesel but not suggested". I was considering a bigger Xicoy turbine for another project but the statement they are saying about diesel makes me feel uncomfortable, like I need to start looking elsewhere for turbines that run fine on diesel. So, when and why did diesel become a no-go for Xicoy turbines? I specifically purchased my X45 because it was the only 45 that claimed it could run on diesel and now the script has been flipped.
Kerosene is harder to get compared to diesel, with current pricing kerosene may be cheaper! A x45 uses a 1/2 liter per flight, so a five gallon can goes for some time.
08-30-2022, 10:58 AM
#41
My Feedback: (27)
highhorse I'm guessing there may be some misunderstanding. Fenderbean is a US service and distributor of Xicoy Turbines. So I'm guessing his information would have been from Gaspar directly early on. He isn't the type to intentionally deceive, or give you the run around. He's a hobbyist like us 1st and foremost. .
08-30-2022, 11:07 AM
#42
Originally Posted by rchotdogpilot
highhorse I'm guessing there may be some misunderstanding. Fenderbean is a US service and distributor of Xicoy Turbines. So I'm guessing his information would have been from Gaspar directly early on. He isn't the type to intentionally deceive, or give you the run around. He's a hobbyist like us 1st and foremost. .
Last edited by highhorse; 08-30-2022 at 11:15 AM.
08-30-2022, 01:29 PM
#43
Originally Posted by jvaliensi
I've seen a couple x45 failures due to carbon buildup on the turbine wheel. I think the little engine is sensitive to excessive oil in the fuel. I use kerosene w/ 4% oil. If I was using diesel, I'd try 3% oil.
Kerosene is harder to get compared to diesel, with current pricing kerosene may be cheaper! A x45 uses a 1/2 liter per flight, so a five gallon can goes for some time.
Kerosene is harder to get compared to diesel, with current pricing kerosene may be cheaper! A x45 uses a 1/2 liter per flight, so a five gallon can goes for some time.
08-30-2022, 02:56 PM
#44
My Feedback: (1)
from my manual:Fuel
The engine can be run using Kerosene or Diesel fuel. Kerosene is the recommended fuel if available; it produces the best user experience, as the engine starts and accelerates faster, without smoke, flames or
[img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/064924f5-b7dd-4050-871d-76eaa8ca8c1f[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/b5d9db65-62b4-4d40-a260-40de1ef6a253[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/96c25334-ad78-452a-a0d0-c5f3e8de31c4[/img]Copyright © 2020 by Xicoy Electrònica S.L. All rights reserved Page 9
User Manual X45 Version 1.2/2020
unpleasant smell. Diesel fuel is acceptable, the engine will not be damaged by using it, but user experience will be worse. Power is the same using both fuels.
Recommended Kerosene fuel is the odourless refined Kerosene (some countries call it ”Paraffin”) used in home stoves, there are different commercial brands like “keroclair”, “Ptx200”, “Petroleum”.as it is very clean and burn without smell. JetA1 will work the same but should be carefully filtered before use, but its odour can be offensive during model storage.
Oil
A 4% of oil should be mixed with the fuel. The recommended mix is a 3% of ISO32 type of oil, commercial brands like Mobil DTE lite, Shell Tellus 32, Igol 32, Cepsa Turbine 32, etc) plus 1% of 100% synthetic 2 stroke oil. Plenty of commercial brands available locally, just check in the bottle that the oil is JASO FC or JASO FD compliant. Commercial turbine oils like Kingtech oil, Jetcat oil, Jackadofsky oil, Fuchs, Deluxe... can be used.
It is allowed to use a 5% of oil contents for compatibility with other engine brands, this will cause a higher fuel consumption and increased possibility of internal carbon building. Full size turbine oils can be used, but are not recommended because these oils are not intended to be burned, irritant and contains neurotoxic chemicals such as tricresyl phosphate that in long term could impact negatively on the health of operators and other persons breathing the exhaust fumes. Aeroshell 500 should not be used at all due at high residues left on bearings
Do not use 2 stroke oil alone (4%). This will gum the bearings causing difficult or impossible startup when engine be cold.
The engine can be run using Kerosene or Diesel fuel. Kerosene is the recommended fuel if available; it produces the best user experience, as the engine starts and accelerates faster, without smoke, flames or
[img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/064924f5-b7dd-4050-871d-76eaa8ca8c1f[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/b5d9db65-62b4-4d40-a260-40de1ef6a253[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/96c25334-ad78-452a-a0d0-c5f3e8de31c4[/img]Copyright © 2020 by Xicoy Electrònica S.L. All rights reserved Page 9
User Manual X45 Version 1.2/2020
unpleasant smell. Diesel fuel is acceptable, the engine will not be damaged by using it, but user experience will be worse. Power is the same using both fuels.
Recommended Kerosene fuel is the odourless refined Kerosene (some countries call it ”Paraffin”) used in home stoves, there are different commercial brands like “keroclair”, “Ptx200”, “Petroleum”.as it is very clean and burn without smell. JetA1 will work the same but should be carefully filtered before use, but its odour can be offensive during model storage.
Oil
A 4% of oil should be mixed with the fuel. The recommended mix is a 3% of ISO32 type of oil, commercial brands like Mobil DTE lite, Shell Tellus 32, Igol 32, Cepsa Turbine 32, etc) plus 1% of 100% synthetic 2 stroke oil. Plenty of commercial brands available locally, just check in the bottle that the oil is JASO FC or JASO FD compliant. Commercial turbine oils like Kingtech oil, Jetcat oil, Jackadofsky oil, Fuchs, Deluxe... can be used.
It is allowed to use a 5% of oil contents for compatibility with other engine brands, this will cause a higher fuel consumption and increased possibility of internal carbon building. Full size turbine oils can be used, but are not recommended because these oils are not intended to be burned, irritant and contains neurotoxic chemicals such as tricresyl phosphate that in long term could impact negatively on the health of operators and other persons breathing the exhaust fumes. Aeroshell 500 should not be used at all due at high residues left on bearings
Do not use 2 stroke oil alone (4%). This will gum the bearings causing difficult or impossible startup when engine be cold.
08-30-2022, 04:00 PM
#45
Originally Posted by jvaliensi
from my manual:Fuel
The engine can be run using Kerosene or Diesel fuel. Kerosene is the recommended fuel if available; it produces the best user experience, as the engine starts and accelerates faster, without smoke, flames or
[img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/064924f5-b7dd-4050-871d-76eaa8ca8c1f[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/b5d9db65-62b4-4d40-a260-40de1ef6a253[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/96c25334-ad78-452a-a0d0-c5f3e8de31c4[/img]Copyright © 2020 by Xicoy Electrònica S.L. All rights reserved Page 9
User Manual X45 Version 1.2/2020
unpleasant smell. Diesel fuel is acceptable, the engine will not be damaged by using it, but user experience will be worse. Power is the same using both fuels.
Recommended Kerosene fuel is the odourless refined Kerosene (some countries call it ”Paraffin”) used in home stoves, there are different commercial brands like “keroclair”, “Ptx200”, “Petroleum”.as it is very clean and burn without smell. JetA1 will work the same but should be carefully filtered before use, but its odour can be offensive during model storage.
Oil
A 4% of oil should be mixed with the fuel. The recommended mix is a 3% of ISO32 type of oil, commercial brands like Mobil DTE lite, Shell Tellus 32, Igol 32, Cepsa Turbine 32, etc) plus 1% of 100% synthetic 2 stroke oil. Plenty of commercial brands available locally, just check in the bottle that the oil is JASO FC or JASO FD compliant. Commercial turbine oils like Kingtech oil, Jetcat oil, Jackadofsky oil, Fuchs, Deluxe... can be used.
It is allowed to use a 5% of oil contents for compatibility with other engine brands, this will cause a higher fuel consumption and increased possibility of internal carbon building. Full size turbine oils can be used, but are not recommended because these oils are not intended to be burned, irritant and contains neurotoxic chemicals such as tricresyl phosphate that in long term could impact negatively on the health of operators and other persons breathing the exhaust fumes. Aeroshell 500 should not be used at all due at high residues left on bearings
Do not use 2 stroke oil alone (4%). This will gum the bearings causing difficult or impossible startup when engine be cold.
The engine can be run using Kerosene or Diesel fuel. Kerosene is the recommended fuel if available; it produces the best user experience, as the engine starts and accelerates faster, without smoke, flames or
[img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/064924f5-b7dd-4050-871d-76eaa8ca8c1f[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/b5d9db65-62b4-4d40-a260-40de1ef6a253[/img] [img]blob:https://www.rcuniverse.com/96c25334-ad78-452a-a0d0-c5f3e8de31c4[/img]Copyright © 2020 by Xicoy Electrònica S.L. All rights reserved Page 9
User Manual X45 Version 1.2/2020
unpleasant smell. Diesel fuel is acceptable, the engine will not be damaged by using it, but user experience will be worse. Power is the same using both fuels.
Recommended Kerosene fuel is the odourless refined Kerosene (some countries call it ”Paraffin”) used in home stoves, there are different commercial brands like “keroclair”, “Ptx200”, “Petroleum”.as it is very clean and burn without smell. JetA1 will work the same but should be carefully filtered before use, but its odour can be offensive during model storage.
Oil
A 4% of oil should be mixed with the fuel. The recommended mix is a 3% of ISO32 type of oil, commercial brands like Mobil DTE lite, Shell Tellus 32, Igol 32, Cepsa Turbine 32, etc) plus 1% of 100% synthetic 2 stroke oil. Plenty of commercial brands available locally, just check in the bottle that the oil is JASO FC or JASO FD compliant. Commercial turbine oils like Kingtech oil, Jetcat oil, Jackadofsky oil, Fuchs, Deluxe... can be used.
It is allowed to use a 5% of oil contents for compatibility with other engine brands, this will cause a higher fuel consumption and increased possibility of internal carbon building. Full size turbine oils can be used, but are not recommended because these oils are not intended to be burned, irritant and contains neurotoxic chemicals such as tricresyl phosphate that in long term could impact negatively on the health of operators and other persons breathing the exhaust fumes. Aeroshell 500 should not be used at all due at high residues left on bearings
Do not use 2 stroke oil alone (4%). This will gum the bearings causing difficult or impossible startup when engine be cold.
08-30-2022, 04:14 PM
#46
On bigger turbines you get: this “Kerosene + 4% oil. Diesel allowed but not recommended”. For me, when I hear not recommended, I don’t do it. Obviously through time and development of their turbines Xicoy realizes their turbines don’t do well on diesel. All my other turbines are doing well on diesel so regrettably I won’t be using Xicoy turbines even though I feel they probably make some of the most advanced turbines for our hobby. If kerosene was as available as diesel in my region I would probably switch fuel types.
08-30-2022, 04:28 PM
#47
My Feedback: (1)
Originally Posted by pcskyhi
that is all old information. When you go to the Xicoy turbines website, diesel is no longer mentioned in the description under recommended fuel for the X45 (X45). Kerosene is the only fuel mentioned for the X45
The following users liked this post:
pcskyhi (08-30-2022)
