Sukhoi Su-17 M4 "Fitter", 1/6 Scale Project
04-20-2022, 06:26 PM
#151
Jim McEwen was a big help in reorganizing my monolithic scale documentation into something more digestible to scale judges... Thanks Jim! 
Putin never responded to my plea for Fitter pics... I guess he's busy right now with other things.
Pics are very limited on this (somewhat obscure for us in the US) aircraft. Either way, my docs are as good as they're gonna get for now.
Putin never responded to my plea for Fitter pics... I guess he's busy right now with other things.
Pics are very limited on this (somewhat obscure for us in the US) aircraft. Either way, my docs are as good as they're gonna get for now.
04-20-2022, 06:38 PM
#152
Not sure if it has been posted before but a good link for Russian walk arounds is,
????? 1950 (After 1950)
Should find more details.
Regards,
????? 1950 (After 1950)
Should find more details.
Regards,
04-20-2022, 07:47 PM
#154
In this case don't Google, Yandex 
https://yandex.ru/images/search?text...45&source=serp
Яндекс (yandex.ru)
Regards,
https://yandex.ru/images/search?text...45&source=serp
Яндекс (yandex.ru)
Regards,
04-21-2022, 05:23 AM
#155
Su-17 Model and Documentation
Originally Posted by Ron S
Jim McEwen was a big help in reorganizing my monolithic scale documentation into something more digestible to scale judges... Thanks Jim!
Putin never responded to my plea for Fitter pics... I guess he's busy right now with other things.
Pics are very limited on this (somewhat obscure for us in the US) aircraft. Either way, my docs are as good as they're gonna get for now.
Putin never responded to my plea for Fitter pics... I guess he's busy right now with other things.
Pics are very limited on this (somewhat obscure for us in the US) aircraft. Either way, my docs are as good as they're gonna get for now.
Jim
07-20-2022, 04:33 AM
#159
I'm gonna restart this thread, to do some followup on Fitter #2.
When I started this build, my plan (without thinking about it too much) was to build enough parts for 2 models. I did this, until I realized this would slow down airplane #1 significantly, and I also just did not have the space, for all the additional parts. I also realized any lessons learned, or improvements from Fitter #1, might not be able to be added into Fitter #2, so I stopped on Fitter #2.
So for Fitter #2, I have all parts for the aft fuselage assembly, all upper fuselage hatches, and all control surfaces.
What remains, is to make new inboard and outboard wing panels, slats, and the majority of the forward fuselage. I have most landing gear parts, but I suspect I'll be making some new parts for the gear (I want to change the tire build design), and might skim some material off the struts for more lightness).
So all of this started up again about a month ago.
When I started this build, my plan (without thinking about it too much) was to build enough parts for 2 models. I did this, until I realized this would slow down airplane #1 significantly, and I also just did not have the space, for all the additional parts. I also realized any lessons learned, or improvements from Fitter #1, might not be able to be added into Fitter #2, so I stopped on Fitter #2.
So for Fitter #2, I have all parts for the aft fuselage assembly, all upper fuselage hatches, and all control surfaces.
What remains, is to make new inboard and outboard wing panels, slats, and the majority of the forward fuselage. I have most landing gear parts, but I suspect I'll be making some new parts for the gear (I want to change the tire build design), and might skim some material off the struts for more lightness).
So all of this started up again about a month ago.
07-20-2022, 04:42 AM
#160
So I decided it would make sense to start on the Fitter2 Outboard wings first. That way, since I have all the TE control surfaces, I would just need to make the slats, then I would quickly (?) have full up outboard wing panels. I can't save weight on any control surfaces at this point, but I CAN save a bit of weight on the outboard wing internal structure, by increasing size of some of the lightening holes, or making more.
Also, we have a lot of heat down here in Texas this month, so I probably won't be flying much. That means I'll have some time to try to hit this thing hard. Away we go...
LH outboard wing made. Getting ready to close up the Fitter2 RH outboard wing.
Starting to bag Fitter2 Slat parts
Slats installed, and pulled out of the outboard wing slightly. The slat build and install went a bit more quickly, relative to Fitter1. Previously made control surfaces and associated hingeplates installed here.
Also, we have a lot of heat down here in Texas this month, so I probably won't be flying much. That means I'll have some time to try to hit this thing hard.
Away we go...LH outboard wing made. Getting ready to close up the Fitter2 RH outboard wing.
Starting to bag Fitter2 Slat parts
Slats installed, and pulled out of the outboard wing slightly. The slat build and install went a bit more quickly, relative to Fitter1. Previously made control surfaces and associated hingeplates installed here.
Last edited by Ron S; 07-20-2022 at 04:50 AM. Reason: adding pics
07-20-2022, 04:57 AM
#161
I now have all parts for the outboard wings for Fitter2. Left will be to do any fitting adjustments, servo covers, and a lot of little stuff, but since the parts are all fitting, I'm gonna put these assemblies aside, and jump on the inboard wing skins. Cloth all cut to size, and these layups will begin today.
Cutting out the carbon fiber reinforcements
Fiberglass pile for the inboard wings. chop chop...
Cutting out the carbon fiber reinforcements
Fiberglass pile for the inboard wings. chop chop...
07-20-2022, 07:50 AM
#165
Looking good Ron.
Curious what weight CF and FIiberglass your using? I just made up some fiberglass Nacelle fairings for a 1/4 Beech Starship and was able to shed over a pound of weight between the two of them by replacing 2 layers of 6oz glass w/ 4 layers of 1.4oz glass (6 layers total). The panels became a bit flimsy, but internal structure fixed that. If your using 3k (6oz) CF, you could lose some weight replacing that with some Spread tow CF along the entire skin (with less 6oz glass, assuming that is what you are using) and then a layer of uni-CF tape over the wing spars.
Curious what weight CF and FIiberglass your using? I just made up some fiberglass Nacelle fairings for a 1/4 Beech Starship and was able to shed over a pound of weight between the two of them by replacing 2 layers of 6oz glass w/ 4 layers of 1.4oz glass (6 layers total). The panels became a bit flimsy, but internal structure fixed that. If your using 3k (6oz) CF, you could lose some weight replacing that with some Spread tow CF along the entire skin (with less 6oz glass, assuming that is what you are using) and then a layer of uni-CF tape over the wing spars.
07-20-2022, 11:49 AM
#166
Hi Thomas,
the black stuff I’m using is actually 1k carbon cloth. I have some 3k, and I may have used some on my first Fitter H tail, but I think the 1k is sufficient.
Instead of using CF tow, I'm using pultruded CF strips of varying sizes depending on where they’re located. They’re usage is mostly inboard, since that is where the higher bending loads are.
Many of my parts were laid up with 3/4 oz, 2, 4, 6 oz, then 1k CF cloth from LE to just past the high point of the airfoil. It does vary some, due to the shape of the parts. For instance, on the outboard wing panels, I continue the CF as a strip outboard that runs above/below the plywood spar, to create more of an I-beam concept. On my slats I just laid up, my existing pair seem pretty rigid, so I replaced the last 6 oz layer with a 4 oz layer.
I'm using the first model as a baseline since I know it works; and will try to improve it from there on Fitter2.
On Fitter1, the final buildup included 6 ejector racks. The first 4 I made were a bit on the heavy side - I could probably save 2-3 oz by redoing them. The last 2 I made, that mount on the fuselage, were quite lightweight. One thing I wish I had done earlier on was to track the individual part weights, before primer. But when you get into build mode, some times you don't want to stop...
Another thing I want to try is the next size larger linear servo for the wing sweep. I've had no problems so far, but when you're flying, it would be nicer if I could sweep the wings quicker. I think I'm using the Actuonix L12s, but I think I can get some L16s in there - I know they're a slight amount longer...
the black stuff I’m using is actually 1k carbon cloth. I have some 3k, and I may have used some on my first Fitter H tail, but I think the 1k is sufficient.
Instead of using CF tow, I'm using pultruded CF strips of varying sizes depending on where they’re located. They’re usage is mostly inboard, since that is where the higher bending loads are.
Many of my parts were laid up with 3/4 oz, 2, 4, 6 oz, then 1k CF cloth from LE to just past the high point of the airfoil. It does vary some, due to the shape of the parts. For instance, on the outboard wing panels, I continue the CF as a strip outboard that runs above/below the plywood spar, to create more of an I-beam concept. On my slats I just laid up, my existing pair seem pretty rigid, so I replaced the last 6 oz layer with a 4 oz layer.
I'm using the first model as a baseline since I know it works; and will try to improve it from there on Fitter2.
On Fitter1, the final buildup included 6 ejector racks. The first 4 I made were a bit on the heavy side - I could probably save 2-3 oz by redoing them. The last 2 I made, that mount on the fuselage, were quite lightweight. One thing I wish I had done earlier on was to track the individual part weights, before primer. But when you get into build mode, some times you don't want to stop...
Another thing I want to try is the next size larger linear servo for the wing sweep. I've had no problems so far, but when you're flying, it would be nicer if I could sweep the wings quicker. I think I'm using the Actuonix L12s, but I think I can get some L16s in there - I know they're a slight amount longer...
Last edited by Ron S; 07-20-2022 at 07:03 PM. Reason: added layup schedule
The following 3 users liked this post by Ron S:
07-25-2022, 04:20 PM
#167
I just finished trimming the inboard wing skins for Fitter2. The layups went well - maybe a bit more uniform than on the first model (Fitter1). Also dug out the parts for the inboard wing internal structure, and will begin structure buildup in the coming days. These parts were laser cut at the same time when I had Fitter1 parts cut out. This time though, I went through each part and decided if there's any dead weight material that isn't really contributing to carrying load. Or if any access holes could be enlarged. So I spent a half a day with my Dremels, and started trimming away what I think is excess material. Then I updated my cad files so if there's a Fitter3, I won't have to go thru this routine again (I'll have updated files for laser cutting).
New inboard skins all trimmed up (for now).
Some of the structural parts that will get assembled.
New inboard skins all trimmed up (for now).
Some of the structural parts that will get assembled.
The following 4 users liked this post by Ron S:
