Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

advice on the Yellow Aircraft f-16

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

advice on the Yellow Aircraft f-16

Old 08-18-2021, 01:03 AM
  #1  
bandit_av
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 251
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Default advice on the Yellow Aircraft f-16

Hi friends
Recently I am about to finish a project that has been going on for years and this is the conversion to the turbine of the Yellow Aircraft F16.
The plane last flew in 2005 and has since been on the unused side. A few years ago we started this conversion including quite a few necessary structural changes.
After my partner passed away a few months ago, I decided that the end of this process that had been dragging on for years, would rise to the most initial importance possible in his memory.
The conversion was to the Kingtech K70 turbine.
The advice and opinions I would love to hear from you, are about the fact that I decided to do a setup, Taileron and I also wanted a Flapron, but it can not be done, because when the flaps are deployed,
then the Taileron also responds with no need, and I have no option when the flaps are deployed to disable the alierons in the wings but that the Taileron will continue to work.
So,I decided on a Taileron setup and flaps in the wings. what do you think?

Avi
Old 08-18-2021, 04:43 AM
  #2  
patf
My Feedback: (4)
 
patf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,845
Received 41 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Avi

Do you know if it is a "C" model or an "A" model. I would be reluctant to change the tail from the simple alum "hoop" to tailerons. The factory configuration produced a really sorted flying experience with the elevators and ailerons. A little programming to give some "flaperon" (10 degrees) at max elevator deflection on takeoff produced a smooth liftoff. The planform of the 16 allows predictable "high-alpha" activity, so flaps on landing were not necessary for that kit. I would focus on keeping it light, and maybe sourcing one of the latest generation turbines which are smaller and lighter than the -70 if possible. Good luck with your efforts, very noble of you.
Old 08-18-2021, 05:34 AM
  #3  
BarracudaHockey
My Feedback: (11)
 
BarracudaHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 25,244
Received 152 Likes on 123 Posts
Default

Pat is right, don't take something that works fine and break it by trying to make it "better"
Old 08-18-2021, 06:50 AM
  #4  
bandit_av
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 251
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Thank you guys for your posts, I'm really considering changing my way of thinking.
Are there any others who may have experienced the Taileron this plane, the Flapron?

Patrick... it is the C version, and it was flown with regular alierons and the funny elevator with the
yok system. I have changed to two close elevators servos.
now my thoughts is to leave the idea to use taileron but to stay with flapron...

Another issue... what is the best CG for the YA F16, there are some guys who flown it as an electric which in this case there aren't any CG changes during the flight,
but with turbine, with the fuel cells in front of the CG area, there are CG changes during the flight.
avi

Last edited by bandit_av; 08-18-2021 at 06:55 AM.
Old 08-18-2021, 07:50 AM
  #5  
cetigershark
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: KlotenZurich, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 71
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default Yellow F-16

Hi Avi

I am in the same process. I will put an X45 into mine. During summer, the project is on hold, but I will continue in Winter. I will control it by ailerons/flaperons and tailerons, used as stabilizer.
Landing gear will be the HSD F-16 gear. Negative moulds were made for a central fuel tank.

Shalom,
Christof
Old 08-18-2021, 07:58 AM
  #6  
bandit_av
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 251
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by cetigershark View Post
Hi Avi

I am in the same process. I will put an X45 into mine. During summer, the project is on hold, but I will continue in Winter. I will control it by ailerons/flaperons and tailerons, used as stabilizer.
Landing gear will be the HSD F-16 gear. Negative moulds were made for a central fuel tank.

Shalom,
Christof
Hi Christof
how you will do flaron and taileron at same time. I'm using the Spektrum radio and catching my head in thinking how to mix it.

Avi
Old 08-18-2021, 08:04 AM
  #7  
cetigershark
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: KlotenZurich, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 71
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bandit_av View Post
Hi Christof
how you will do flaron and taileron at same time. I'm using the Spektrum radio and catching my head in thinking how to mix it.

Avi
Avi, I fly with JETI. I left Spektrum around 8 years ago because it gave me a pain. Last TX I had was the DX10.
I will do normal roll control by the flaperon, pitch control by the stabs. Maybe when gear is down, I do a switchover to Flaps and roll/pitch by the stabs.

But it is still a long way untill I am there. Apologies I cannot help you about the programming, better ask some Spektrum user.
Old 08-18-2021, 08:41 AM
  #8  
patf
My Feedback: (4)
 
patf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,845
Received 41 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

CG doesnt change with power source, so the CG should be the same. With different tanks i'd review if it changes from full to mid to empty, but if it flew well before, i would want it to be at that same position.
Old 08-19-2021, 04:23 AM
  #9  
gunradd
My Feedback: (9)
 
gunradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springhill, FL
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 49 Likes on 42 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by patf View Post
CG doesnt change with power source, so the CG should be the same. With different tanks i'd review if it changes from full to mid to empty, but if it flew well before, i would want it to be at that same position.

This is incorrect. Charles who owned yellow gave a reward CG for the ducted fan because he new a UAT would be installed in the nose to add weight in the nose. The factory CG is tail heavy and very hard to fly if the plane is empty. So if you go electric the CG must be moved forward. Going turbine though the CG would be close to factory. I would CG it empty so the UAT gives it a little nose weight and you will be good.

No need to over complicate this plane. The ailerons are the way to go big time. The plane flies so much better with ailerons. I would mix in a little taileron with the flapperons down but that's it.

For programming... I have only used DX18s and 20s so not sure if your radio is capable. If its not then you dont really need flapperons anyway. You only use them for the scale look. F16s have no problem bleeding off speed and drag when flown correctly. The programming is cake though and is done with mixes if you did use separate servos for the elevators. All you do is make a mix say from ail 1 to elev 1 and put it on the flap switch so it only comes on with flapperons down. Then do the same for the other side. Very simple stuff.
Old 08-19-2021, 08:27 AM
  #10  
bandit_av
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 251
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by gunradd View Post
This is incorrect. Charles who owned yellow gave a reward CG for the ducted fan because he new a UAT would be installed in the nose to add weight in the nose. The factory CG is tail heavy and very hard to fly if the plane is empty. So if you go electric the CG must be moved forward. Going turbine though the CG would be close to factory. I would CG it empty so the UAT gives it a little nose weight and you will be good.

No need to over complicate this plane. The ailerons are the way to go big time. The plane flies so much better with ailerons. I would mix in a little taileron with the flapperons down but that's it.

For programming... I have only used DX18s and 20s so not sure if your radio is capable. If its not then you dont really need flapperons anyway. You only use them for the scale look. F16s have no problem bleeding off speed and drag when flown correctly. The programming is cake though and is done with mixes if you did use separate servos for the elevators. All you do is make a mix say from ail 1 to elev 1 and put it on the flap switch so it only comes on with flapperons down. Then do the same for the other side. Very simple stuff.
gunradd,
thank you my friend.
I'll do as your advice

Avi
Old 08-19-2021, 08:45 AM
  #11  
FalconWings
My Feedback: (57)
 
FalconWings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,980
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by patf View Post
Avi

Do you know if it is a "C" model or an "A" model. I would be reluctant to change the tail from the simple alum "hoop" to tailerons. The factory configuration produced a really sorted flying experience with the elevators and ailerons. A little programming to give some "flaperon" (10 degrees) at max elevator deflection on takeoff produced a smooth liftoff. The planform of the 16 allows predictable "high-alpha" activity, so flaps on landing were not necessary for that kit. I would focus on keeping it light, and maybe sourcing one of the latest generation turbines which are smaller and lighter than the -70 if possible. Good luck with your efforts, very noble of you.
depending on the OD of the pipe, the "hoop" may not work. I always hated that thing, could not get a decent elevator throw without bumping into the trust pipe....so I always cut the top arc and turned it into two separate horns with individual servos. Worked awesome!
Old 08-19-2021, 08:49 AM
  #12  
FalconWings
My Feedback: (57)
 
FalconWings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 6,980
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

I would start planning what to do for fuel. You can't get much in there. Even with the old jet tech conversion you could barely get enough for 3-4 minute flights.

David
Old 08-19-2021, 09:23 AM
  #13  
bandit_av
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 251
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by FalconWings View Post
I would start planning what to do for fuel. You can't get much in there. Even with the old jet tech conversion you could barely get enough for 3-4 minute flights.

David
Thank you my friend for your input.
I manage to get 1.9L of fuel, it is not much, but according to my calculation, it will be enough for safe 5 6 min of flight time,
but the big minus, it is in front of the CG, and not on.

Avi
Old 09-04-2021, 06:15 AM
  #14  
YellowAircraft
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 97
Received 10 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Hi,

As much as I hate to admit how I know, Gunn is correct about the CG concern. Regarding 'several necessary structural changes', that tells me you're building an older polyester version? Do you have pics? If it's the latest version, the only structural mod I could consider necessary for turbine ops is adding the inlet spike. What else did you do?
Old 09-04-2021, 10:29 AM
  #15  
bandit_av
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 251
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Wink

Originally Posted by YellowAircraft View Post
Hi,

As much as I hate to admit how I know, Gunn is correct about the CG concern. Regarding 'several necessary structural changes', that tells me you're building an older polyester version? Do you have pics? If it's the latest version, the only structural mod I could consider necessary for turbine ops is adding the inlet spike. What else did you do?
Hi Shaun
Yes, you are correct, it is the older 'c' polyester version, and Unfortunately we did not take any pictures of the process of renovation and conversion,
but, reinforcements were made in the area of the wing connections to the body, with the help of carbon reinforcements.
The engine bay was little changed to accept the engine and the tail pipe and two batteries.
2 servos, as the Skymaster configuration replaced the elevators yoke.
The big ducted fan inlet is split in two, since the turbine does not need such a large air intake, so the top is utilized in favor of adding a fuel tank.
I used the original saddles that were converted to jet fuel, and I added another tank so that together with the hopper tank there is about 1.9 liters of fuel that will be enough for about five six-minute flights.
I got a little carried away and put on a Powerbox and a Gyro, and in the meantime on the second flight I setup the Gyro gain at a level of 25 percent and the plane flew straight without any strange behavior.
There will still be a lot of flights to check and reset it to setup the right gain.
The CG was setup approx. 8.25 in. ,maybe a little more, in front of the hinges line.
It is powered by Kingtech K70 winch according to first flights seems to be a very good match up.
I'll take some pictures later.

Avi

BTW Shaun, I sent you a private message some weeks ago, apparently it eluded you and you did not seeWink

Avi
Old 09-04-2021, 07:25 PM
  #16  
YellowAircraft
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 97
Received 10 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Hi

Where did you send the message? If it was here, then I'm not surprised I missed it. I'm almost never here. Anyway, looks like you figured it all out. Congrats!
Old 09-04-2021, 08:31 PM
  #17  
bandit_av
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Posts: 251
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Smile

Originally Posted by YellowAircraft View Post
Hi

Where did you send the message? If it was here, then I'm not surprised I missed it. I'm almost never here. Anyway, looks like you figured it all out. Congrats!
Thank you my friend.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.