Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

JP gear controller troubleshooting

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

JP gear controller troubleshooting

Old 11-26-2021, 07:55 AM
  #1  
Herky
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default JP gear controller troubleshooting

I bought a used T-1 jet with a JP hobby gear/door controller-

I have all 3 gear plugged in, and i can adjust the nose door using the built in button programming, but i cant get the gear to actuate from my transmitter.

The nose gear servo works and is controllable from the JP module via adjustments (+- and reversing) but it won't cycle open and closed when I actuate the gear from my transmitter.

I have +-100 on the gear channel. I have tried +-150 also.


I have 6.6volts verified in from jst power input

Ive verified channel operation from transmitter...tried other channels to actuate gear.

Any suggestions on what to try next?

6.6v life battery input
Spektrum NX10 with 10100 receiver (non as3x)
Jp 2 wire gears
Click image for larger version

Name:	D04FCE52-0BEE-4CAE-B671-87EBECC0AA80.jpeg
Views:	24
Size:	32.4 KB
ID:	2271116
Old 11-26-2021, 09:05 AM
  #2  
Vincent
My Feedback: (61)
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Arizona / Colorado
Posts: 4,939
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

That controller has a 5-6 sec delay built in to it before anything starts moving. Is it possible you are not waiting long enough after flipping the switch on the tx??
Old 11-26-2021, 10:16 AM
  #3  
Len Todd
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baldwin, MI
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

There is a reason why the current T-One's JP electric gear now comes with a Xicoy LG 15 Gear Controller. I have tossed my past JP controllers in the trash can. With a JP controller, I never could get and keep the braking to work evenly. I even switched to the newer style JP brake design. Dirk has LG-15s that are NOT locked to any particular brand gear. I have had them on JPs and Prolink electric gear. (The LG15 uses the same basic programming as Electron's GS200.) With a LG15, you can set ABS rates, set proportional braking rates and have the LG15's gyro steer the plane straight with the gyro on the nose gear and also have the gyro also use the brakes to steer the plane straight when braking. I have yet to see a JP controller that can do this. With JP controllers, I always ended up with a lot of brake dancing with lighter planes and veering off in one direction or the other with the T-One. With a LG15 on the T-One I just run the brake slider up fully and let the controller steer the plane to a straight a stop. This has cut the distance to brake more than half! All you need to do is have the plane headed down the runway, the controller keeps it there! Lastly, I was able to program my first LG15 using the manual w/o having to ask for help. Once I had it set up, I did the fine tuning at the field, which was very straight forward. Also, once you get the first LG15 programmed, you can transfer the program to a new LG15 controller using a micro SD card and make the minor adjustments that the new plane may need (e.g. steering gyro rate, current limiters, and door control settings, etc..)

I recently ordered a second T-One. Its JP E-Gear now comes with the LG15. My first T-One has 237 flights and four years on it. It is my "go to plane" on new to me flying sites. It has a LG15. The JP gear is good gear. Just their controllers are IMHO are very basic and never have worked well for me. Once you try a LG15 and get it programmed correctly, you will never go back to a JP controller.

I also just ordered a Rebel Classic with Electron gear. That gear does not come with their GS200 controller. I purchased a Xicoy LG15 for it.
Old 11-26-2021, 10:55 AM
  #4  
Vincent
My Feedback: (61)
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Arizona / Colorado
Posts: 4,939
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

The RB45 will work as a replacement for basic operation too.
Old 11-26-2021, 11:31 AM
  #5  
Len Todd
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baldwin, MI
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

I am sure the RB45 would work the gear. Not some much though on gear doors and steering with the brakes etc. It is hard to compromise after you have been spoiled.

I really wanted the GS 200. But it is locked to the Electrons. So it came down to the unlocked Xicoy branded version.
Old 11-26-2021, 12:10 PM
  #6  
Herky
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
That controller has a 5-6 sec delay built in to it before anything starts moving. Is it possible you are not waiting long enough after flipping the switch on the tx??
i thought i had tried to wait...ill focus on that and see if i was too hasty.
i really wish there was just a bit more documentation for this unit...it should be in their troubleshooting guide. (and with a native accurate translation!)
Old 11-26-2021, 01:14 PM
  #7  
Vincent
My Feedback: (61)
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Arizona / Colorado
Posts: 4,939
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Len Todd View Post
I am sure the RB45 would work the gear. Not some much though on gear doors and steering with the brakes etc. It is hard to compromise after you have been spoiled.

I really wanted the GS 200. But it is locked to the Electrons. So it came down to the unlocked Xicoy branded version.
It will work i have done it on a set of jp hobby 1/6th F16 gear. The original jp controller worked fine but i could not get used to that long retract delay.
Old 12-01-2021, 08:08 PM
  #8  
Herky
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

just a follow up on my gear controller. Previous owner ran it off 3s life pack (10+ volts fully charged). it may have fried something inside because I cant get it to work (2s lipo). We found another jp controller and confirmed that the gear work ok, along with other components. I'll replace it with a sequencer of some sort as I only have a 10 ch radio-no spare channel for gear doors!
Old 12-02-2021, 03:16 AM
  #9  
Bob_B
My Feedback: (11)
 
Bob_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bluegrass State of Mind
Posts: 4,529
Received 51 Likes on 44 Posts
Default

Hard to beat the Xicoy Lgc 15, up to 8 doors and gyro stabilization.
Old 12-02-2021, 06:20 AM
  #10  
Len Todd
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baldwin, MI
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

You can get an "unlocked" LG15 here: Xicoy LG-15 E-Gear Controller/Sequencer with Steering Gyro | Pacific RC Jets It will work with any brand electric gear.

Also, the current JP gear motors are said to be rated for 2S LiPo. BUT, the original JP gear motors may NOT have been rated for 2S LiPo. There were some apparent issues reported with 2S LiPo voltage burning out the motors. Who really knows if that was a voltage problem or if the person had them setup incorrectly (e.g. ran them against the stops w/o a controller, etc.). ?? Consequently, I run my early version JPs at 7.6 volts with a castle voltage regulator. I am not sure that the VR is required. But it does provide a consistent voltage as the 2S LiPo voltage drops.

To set the LGC 15's current limiters, I ran the gear on the bench setting the limit about 2 increments offered by the software above where the gear works reliably. After ~ 200 flights or so, one of the main gears did not come up reliably. That was an indicator to clean and lube the gear. After cleaning, the gear worked fine again. Other than that, the gear has worked fine for 237 flights! If you are using used gear, I would disassemble, clean and lube it. I do that annually now. Look for any rough spots on the cam slots and pins, etc. No telling what the gear may have been exposed to. I use BVM Lube. Also, If the gear sags unevenly or excessively you may need some new main gear springs. Dirk (PacificRCJets.Com) can provide them also. You may have to tell him the dimensions and color of the springs.

The LGC15 will also operate the doors w/o the need for a separate radio channel. You program the sequence and timing in the LGC15. I would also suggest that you remove the gear door link to the servo as you do that. You may have adjust that servo's travel. If you want, PM me your email address and I can send you a data file for my T-One's LGC15. You can load the file on a Micro SD card and upload it on a LGC 15. It has all the basics settings. You may need to tweak it a bit to adjust the door travel and current limiters for your specific gear., etc.

Also, if you have the early version of brakes, you may want to remove the magnets in the hubs. They tend to make the brake disk snap out casing the brakes to initially lock up versus the disk just engaging smoothly. This may cause some added wear on the pads. But to me it is a worthwhile compromise. JP does have a different version of wheel/brakes available that does not have the brake disk. They work fine. But you may have to clean up their lousy job of threading the 8mm axle to get them for fit into your older struts.

Have fun. The T-One is a great flying plane. I recently ordered a second one, with a different scheme to add to the "fleet."

Last edited by Len Todd; 12-02-2021 at 06:23 AM.
Old 12-02-2021, 06:27 AM
  #11  
Bob_B
My Feedback: (11)
 
Bob_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bluegrass State of Mind
Posts: 4,529
Received 51 Likes on 44 Posts
Default

Great info Len! I removed the magnets in one set of JP wheels and it ruined them. That cost me $180 as I bought a set of Electron wheels and brakes that in my opinion are far superior.
Old 12-02-2021, 07:12 AM
  #12  
Len Todd
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baldwin, MI
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

You are right about the magnet removal. But I got over 200 flights before the pads wore down. My Prolinks in the Ultra Flash had the same style brake, but w/o the magnets. They wore out with ~180 flights. This style of brake is apparently just prone to wearing out!

There is a different version of JP brakes/wheels available. It does not have the Disks. In this new version, there are no brake parts that actually contact each other to provide the braking. I have a set on now and they work great.! I did have to increase the power in the LGC15 to the brake a bit (70% to 95%) but they work great. This new set requires a new Axle, Hub and Wheel. But it all comes together with a tire too. Had to clean up the axles' threads with an 8mm die to get them to thread into the strut. Also had to notch the thread in the axle for the set screw. It was a real PITA getting them apart to get the die on the axle. The thread locker they use is a bit on the extreme side. Too bad they can't seem to cut a quality thread.

I also recently order a Rebel Classic with Electrons. I have a new LGC 15 sitting on the bench waiting for that plane. The OEM's gear package came with the RB45. For some reason, I apparently could not convince CARF to substitute the RB45 for a GS200 even if I paid the difference. :-(

Thought I would give Electrons a try. Lots of people swear by them! Electrons do look more robust. But, the JP gear looks "less intrusive/more refined" to me. Also, the JP's use bearings and the Electrons are still rolling on bushings. No matter what you do there always seems to be a compromise.
Old 12-02-2021, 07:15 AM
  #13  
Vincent
My Feedback: (61)
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Arizona / Colorado
Posts: 4,939
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

I’m running 9v thru a castle reg on my jp F16 gear. The factory ok’d using a straight 3 cell life but i knocked it down to 9v. JP instructions says 8.4v max. I use my DX18 for all sequencing so I’m really only using the RB45 for basic up and down gear control.
Old 12-02-2021, 07:45 AM
  #14  
Len Todd
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baldwin, MI
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

I thought about using the RB45. But it does not have the gyro operated braking/steering, etc.

I too initially used the DX-18 for the Gear Door. But somewhere along the line, I just programmed the gear door operation in the gear controller. Also, the thread's OP indicated that he did not have the extra channel in his Rxer for this,

Which, ... now brings to mind another thread which indicates that apparently some of the Spektrum lesser channeled Rxers may not be suitable for Jets. Apparently the AS3X is prone to interference from the turbine. Hope the OP does not have one of these AS3X Rxers. ??? Also, in Jets with high powered servos, you need more than a standard Rxer output buss, which Spektrum PowerSafe Rxer's have. Also, a redundant power supply is vastly preferable in a turbine powered plane. With no PowerSafe Rxers available, a PowerBOX main unit and three Spektrum remotes is the only option I know of to run a >10 channel Spektrum Rxer. Apparently PowerSafes are not due out until Mid-April. But that date also has been moved back several times before too! Just a few thoughts of caution!
Old 12-02-2021, 10:49 AM
  #15  
Vincent
My Feedback: (61)
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Arizona / Colorado
Posts: 4,939
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

I would not run the AS3X just because it has the built in gyro. I have run the AR12020 in my turbinator and Ventrix with a single Life rx battery many times with no problems, hundreds of flights. The power save rx is great for larger jets.
Old 12-02-2021, 12:22 PM
  #16  
rhklenke
My Feedback: (24)
 
rhklenke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 5,971
Likes: 0
Received 26 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Any of the "Xicoy" gear controllers that don't come directly from Xicoy (e.g., Electron, Prolink, or others) are hobbled or locked in some way. Generally, these "3rd party" Xicoys have the cutoff current locked to the values that the gear manufacturer selected, and you can't change it. On the Prolink (i.e., Dreamworks) ones, some of the more sophisticated adjustments, like the "servo switch off time" for the gear doors, can not be changed.

The best bet for electric gear controllers is get the gear without the controller, and then get a genuine Xicoy, directly from Xicoy. Along with everything else, it comes with excellent technical support from Gaspar. Ask me how I learned the above...

BTW, the Xicoy controllers are fine on 2s LiPo, in my fairly extensive experience with them...

Bob
Old 12-22-2021, 02:41 PM
  #17  
Herky
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Herky View Post
just a follow up on my gear controller. Previous owner ran it off 3s life pack (10+ volts fully charged). it may have fried something inside because I cant get it to work (2s lipo). We found another jp controller and confirmed that the gear work ok, along with other components. I'll replace it with a sequencer of some sort as I only have a 10 ch radio-no spare channel for gear doors!
I put a JP V1-B ER-50 controller in. $35. Only downside is that I have to mechanically adjust the servo linkage. (Only 1 gear door) I run it off a 450mah 2s LiPo. Simple, lightweight, and isolated from control or Engine control power supply.
Old 12-23-2021, 06:26 AM
  #18  
Agrav8ed
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 339
Received 27 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Len Todd View Post
You are right about the magnet removal. But I got over 200 flights before the pads wore down. My Prolinks in the Ultra Flash had the same style brake, but w/o the magnets. They wore out with ~180 flights. This style of brake is apparently just prone to wearing out!

There is a different version of JP brakes/wheels available. It does not have the Disks. In this new version, there are no brake parts that actually contact each other to provide the braking. I have a set on now and they work great.! I did have to increase the power in the LGC15 to the brake a bit (70% to 95%) but they work great. This new set requires a new Axle, Hub and Wheel. But it all comes together with a tire too. Had to clean up the axles' threads with an 8mm die to get them to thread into the strut. Also had to notch the thread in the axle for the set screw. It was a real PITA getting them apart to get the die on the axle. The thread locker they use is a bit on the extreme side. Too bad they can't seem to cut a quality thread.

I also recently order a Rebel Classic with Electrons. I have a new LGC 15 sitting on the bench waiting for that plane. The OEM's gear package came with the RB45. For some reason, I apparently could not convince CARF to substitute the RB45 for a GS200 even if I paid the difference. :-(

Thought I would give Electrons a try. Lots of people swear by them! Electrons do look more robust. But, the JP gear looks "less intrusive/more refined" to me. Also, the JP's use bearings and the Electrons are still rolling on bushings. No matter what you do there always seems to be a compromise.
I am curious but could not find a pic. Do you happen to have a pic of this new style JP brake?
Thanks,
Tone
Old 01-02-2022, 04:27 PM
  #19  
furloughed ual
My Feedback: (31)
 
furloughed ual's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: VA
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have the ER-200 electric motors. I sent Shane a message asking what triggers the shutoff with these actuators and the JP802 controller, I.e. the logic in the controller or is it something inside the actuator. Unfortunately with the language barrier I didn’t get the info I needed. For those using other controllers (I will do the same….I’m done with the JP delay), what stops your electric actuator at the stops?
Old 01-02-2022, 06:06 PM
  #20  
Dansy
My Feedback: (53)
 
Dansy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Prescott, Ont.
Posts: 2,664
Received 88 Likes on 84 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by furloughed ual View Post
I have the ER-200 electric motors. I sent Shane a message asking what triggers the shutoff with these actuators and the JP802 controller, I.e. the logic in the controller or is it something inside the actuator. Unfortunately with the language barrier I didn’t get the info I needed. For those using other controllers (I will do the same….I’m done with the JP delay), what stops your electric actuator at the stops?
At the stop (meaning full travel either way) the amp goes up and the controller turn that retract off…..if the amps doesn’t get trigger the time delay program will do the same…that’s the reason when you program let say a LG15 or 13 you put the max amps, and timeout…..the nose I’d normally lower…

Old 01-03-2022, 06:21 AM
  #21  
Len Todd
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baldwin, MI
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

Some of the cheaper gear operators have the current limiters in the operator (e.g. Eflite, Freewing, etc.). That is how they operate w/o a separate controller. The gear that comes with a controller usually has the current limiters in the controller. If you operate gear that requires a controller w/o the controller, the motor can be instantly damaged when it hits its mechanical stops. Unfortunately, the controllers that typically come with gear have been programmed so its current limiters are set correctly but not adjustable. As the gear wears or gets dirty there is no option in the JP controllers, that I have been provided with gear, to bump up the current limits or change any other parameter (e.g. delays, etc.). That is what got me down the Xicoy path. I have had a LGC12, LGC13 and several LCG15s. I ended up giving the 12 and 13 away because neither has all the features that the 15 has. Using the 15, I am finally able to get the delays I want and the current limits I need for my planes' gear. Also, with the 15's gyro operated steering and braking, I was finally able to get the "brake dancing" eliminated on my UltraFlash. Electron's GS200 is basically a LGC 15 but locked to Electron's gear. You can get a 15 from Pacific RC Jets that is unlocked. However, you then have to figure out the right current limit, which is fairly easy on the bench. If you figure the 15 out on the bench and then make the minor adjustment at the field to perfect its operation, you wind up with an excellent controller that will do exactly what you need and want. Bottom Line in gear controllers: You get what you are willing pay for. IMHO: There is no excuse for not having a gear controller that you are happy with in what is at least a $5K investment!
Old 01-04-2022, 05:47 AM
  #22  
WHMC
My Feedback: (15)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Saint Louis, Mo,
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Len, Is there any information published by JP for different sized gear motor actuators regarding amps, max time and unload time? I assume if the LGC15A if purchased separate from a gear combo set that it would be in the
unlocked format? Thanks whmc
Old 01-04-2022, 06:48 AM
  #23  
Len Todd
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baldwin, MI
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Default

I get my LGC 15s from www.PacificRCJets.com . They are "unlocked." I have tried to contact JP/China Hobby several times to no avail re. amp settings for their gear. I have come to the conclusion that they probably don't give out a particular setting because who knows what voltage is being used, etc., and they want you to use their junk controllers. They make great gear. But their controllers suck, IMHO! So, what I do is set up the gear and LGC15 on the bench. I start out with a low amp limit setting and then bump it up until the gear works on the bench. Then I add two additional increments to make sure it works in the air. I am not sure where I have the last one set now because I always cloned the first 15 with the SD card and then adjusted a new 15 from there. Also, I have bumped the amp limit in the T-One's gear controller up a couple times this past year. But then I found out, late in the season, the tire was touching the wheel well causing it to not come all the way up with its new tires, when flying. I have to correct that issue yet this winter. Also, the 15 in the T-One is run with 2S LiPo with a Castle voltage regulator (VR) set at 7.6 VDC. That gear is one of the first versions of JP's electric gear, and it was claimed that the gear was unable to handle 2S LiPo. Since then, the JP gear is now known to be able to handle 2S LiPo w/o a VR. Also, I had a LGC15 in the UltraFlash, may it rest in peace. It had ProLink gear. That gear handled 2S LiPo, so I did not use a voltage regulator. I recently ordered another T-One, for a spare, with the JP electric gear. The gear package now comes with an LGC 15. I also ordered a new Rebel Classic. I am trying Electron's gear in that one. That gear package unfortunately did NOT come with the GS-200. But, I have a new LGC15 sitting here waiting for that airframe to arrive. Just so you know, there is no VR in the LGC15s.

Last edited by Len Todd; 01-04-2022 at 06:50 AM.
Old 01-04-2022, 11:09 AM
  #24  
Dansy
My Feedback: (53)
 
Dansy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Prescott, Ont.
Posts: 2,664
Received 88 Likes on 84 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by WHMC View Post
Len, Is there any information published by JP for different sized gear motor actuators regarding amps, max time and unload time? I assume if the LGC15A if purchased separate from a gear combo set that it would be in the
unlocked format? Thanks whmc
I wouldn’t assume it’s unlock….unless you buy from Pacific Jet, or Fenderbean/Gaspar and with the last 2 I would specifically asked for an unlock version.

if your on FB ask Shane Yang I got the rating for the JP gear that I used to have from him….I switch all the jet to Electron…..

He will say that you should used their controller as it’s the best….(bull**** but thank you for the numbers LOL 😂 )
Old 01-04-2022, 12:00 PM
  #25  
Bob_B
My Feedback: (11)
 
Bob_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bluegrass State of Mind
Posts: 4,529
Received 51 Likes on 44 Posts
Default

I use the Xicoy LGC 13 with JP gear with zero adjustments needed this is in a Rebel Hot
I have an Assan AG68 controller driving another set of JP gear with zero issues

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.