Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

Bvm t-33 -reborn

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Bvm t-33 -reborn

Old 08-30-2022, 04:24 PM
  #26  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Unfortunately, I hit a huge road block, but I believe I can recover..

The gear doors were great until I mounted the motor. Now, the tires are hitting the motor housing, thus limiting how far they’ll retract. I’m needing maybe about a 1/4” of help? I definitely don’t want to scrap the gear doors. Maybe cut the strut a smidge?

Can’t shim the motor either due to the intakes..

Any thoughts?

Last edited by Hnorth; 08-30-2022 at 04:28 PM.
Old 08-30-2022, 04:27 PM
  #27  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

At this point, I’d hate to throw a number out because I’d probably be lying! The more and more stuff I add, I question on how the electric will fly this thing. Then I run it on the ground and I’m quickly reminded 😂

I thought I read somewhere it comes out about 1lb + - Could be wrong..

I’ve got the Xicoy CG device, and I’ll grab a number from it for ya!


Originally Posted by RCAdam03 View Post
The finished product looks great! No shame in having to make a correction or two, we've all done it and we'll do them again haha. Taking it back to the GSW Jet Meet will be a great tribute, I really hope to get out there next year, bucket list event. What do you guess the AUW difference will be with electric Viofan compared to the old GDF setup?
The following users liked this post:
RCAdam03 (08-31-2022)
Old 08-30-2022, 05:35 PM
  #28  
frankie
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Hello Hudson,

Great project, some interesting history too. In response to your query, have you considered moving the retract mounting points outward slightly? if this is possible it may get you the clearance you need and provide a slightly wider track.

I noticed you're using a 5012 unit. My understanding is that the 5012 may only need a 10S set up if using currently battery tech - that is 70C. This is due to battery evolution, etc

Good luck, regards, Frank
Old 08-31-2022, 05:54 AM
  #29  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by frankie View Post
Hello Hudson,

Great project, some interesting history too. In response to your query, have you considered moving the retract mounting points outward slightly? if this is possible it may get you the clearance you need and provide a slightly wider track.

I noticed you're using a 5012 unit. My understanding is that the 5012 may only need a 10S set up if using currently battery tech - that is 70C. This is due to battery evolution, etc

Good luck, regards, Frank
Thanks for the suggestion. The mounting is as far as it can go.. I think I've determined I'll leave the doors as is, and just just make sure that the air moving over the doors won't fly off. I'll do this with caution..

Interesting point on the 5012. Any threads discussing this? I don't mind the 12S setup, but I totally don't mind saving some extra weight if possible!
Old 08-31-2022, 05:15 PM
  #30  
frankie
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Hello Hudson,

Regarding the BVM5012, I have the same unit but have not run it yet. I asked here on RCU for any member's with first hand experience using this unit and didn't really get anywhere. There is however a thread or two on RC Groups that mention the 5012 suitability on 10S /11S/12S. From what I understand the early 5012's were designed and manufactured with the battery tech of the time. That is 25 to 30C Lipos. Since Battery technology has evolved, Lipo performance and battery voltage sag has reduced.

Considering the above, if your 5012 has a 110A ESC, then the ESC may fail when using current Lipo tech (70C) at 12S.

When I finally get around to using my unit I was either going to run it on 10S with the standard 110A ESC, however if I was going to run 12S I would definitely swap out to a higher amp ESC.

In my opinion, the BVM T-33 is already loaded heavily enough, so any opportunity to reduce wing-loading is a good one. Even the 10S system will have more thrust than what the ICDF ever had. Obviously battery weight would be greater than 22oz of glo fuel, but EDF performance on 10S will be better than any BVM91/96.

Good Luck!

Keep Posting, thanks, Frank
Old 08-31-2022, 05:17 PM
  #31  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Hmm.. Valid points. Maybe a phone call to Rob at BVM will help ease some of the questions that I now have.

Originally Posted by frankie View Post
Hello Hudson,

Regarding the BVM5012, I have the same unit but have not run it yet. I asked here on RCU for any member's with first hand experience using this unit and didn't really get anywhere. There is however a thread or two on RC Groups that mention the 5012 suitability on 10S /11S/12S. From what I understand the early 5012's were designed and manufactured with the battery tech of the time. That is 25 to 30C Lipos. Since Battery technology has evolved, Lipo performance and battery voltage sag has reduced.

Considering the above, if your 5012 has a 110A ESC, then the ESC may fail when using current Lipo tech (70C) at 12S.

When I finally get around to using my unit I was either going to run it on 10S with the standard 110A ESC, however if I was going to run 12S I would definitely swap out to a higher amp ESC.

In my opinion, the BVM T-33 is already loaded heavily enough, so any opportunity to reduce wing-loading is a good one. Even the 10S system will have more thrust than what the ICDF ever had. Obviously battery weight would be greater than 22oz of glo fuel, but EDF performance on 10S will be better than any BVM91/96.

Good Luck!

Keep Posting, thanks, Frank
Old 08-31-2022, 05:54 PM
  #32  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Few minor things today. Slowly working down my “critical” punch list to ensure this Saturday will be successful.

Fixed the front hatch by adding some missing blocks. I also added a hatch latch. (Forgot to get photos of that).
Added a block and trimmed the fuse area as described in the manual. Heads up, works flawlessly. It for sure isn’t coming out during flight! *knock on wood*

Moment of truth. The dreadful part. CG.
It’s a little ugly, but I am pretty sure I won’t be in a danger zone..Too bad at least. The measurements aren’t correct, they’re off -+1mm (can’t input decimals on this unit) So with that being said, I’ll have to manually balance this unit. I’ve slid the saddle packs as far as I can, and at this point, unless I run wire for the third battery from the nose to the fan, I’m gonna need about 1lb. I still owe the front end an air valve, so I think I’ll be right at that 1lb mark.

An option to reduce the need of “unnecessary weight.”
Add twin 4000mah lipo flight packs. This will probably reduce the nose weight to only needing .80lbs. This would replace my current twin 2000mah packs. At this point, I would have no choice but to add some weight to the front. Going off the top of my head from just holding their weight in comparison.

All in all, the for sure way to check this puppy is to manually do it. I’m not in anyway knocking this unit, it’s great! However, I think to be safe, I need to resort to a second opinion.

For those wondering, current “electrolyte’d” weight is 20lbs on the money. I didn’t put air in the plane, because I didn’t want it to weigh anymore.




Final touches before Saturday:
  • Mount the receiver in its final resting spot. (Currently just velcro’d)
  • Finalize the resting place for battery #3. Velcro and build a small retaining box for it.
  • Mount the new air valve for the innermost gear doors. (Not a priority.)
  • Verify CG
  • Range check
Old 09-02-2022, 05:05 AM
  #33  
hoser
 
hoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Miami Springs, FL
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

I been flying mine for years on 10s 9er if you need any info send me a PM, I just redid the gear doors the grass field tears them



up a bit
The following 2 users liked this post by hoser:
grbaker (09-03-2022), RCAdam03 (09-02-2022)
Old 09-03-2022, 01:29 PM
  #34  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Long story short, I believe the CG was a little misleading. Digital CG meter showed tail heavy. CG stand showed tail heavy.

Flew it, it became apparent after take off, it was too nose heavy. Smashed it into the ground on my 3rd approach. I had quite a bit of up elevator, and on final, I gave it all I had.

Fortunately, the flex plates can be replaced, and the landing gear can maybe be fixed? Not for sure if BVM fixes the older style retracts or not.

Frame was ok, but the gear doors and gear are a loss. Oh well! Back to the shop!

In its glory. About 180 seconds later, eh..

Slight minor damage on the left TE.

The piece between the air cylinders and gear arm is toast. Everything else is ok!
Old 09-03-2022, 06:19 PM
  #35  
invertmast
My Feedback: (23)
 
invertmast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Capon Bridge, WV
Posts: 8,101
Received 95 Likes on 63 Posts
Default

Sorry to hear. Looks like a good time to upgrade to some Purple gear.. If not that, i think my project has some BVM gear i could part with... i've got purple ones to upgrade mine with.
Old 09-04-2022, 04:07 AM
  #36  
Dawn Ellzey
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Grand Prairie, TX,
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Hudson,

We have one of those arms in our spares box and it is here on they field.
So if Rob can't bring you one when they come we have what you need
See you in a few days

Dawn
Old 09-04-2022, 04:13 AM
  #37  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dawn Ellzey View Post
Hudson,

We have one of those arms in our spares box and it is here on they field.
So if Rob can't bring you one when they come we have what you need
See you in a few days

Dawn
Sweet! If I can get a Kingtech back in time, we’ll be loaded down. If not, we will for sure be visiting everyone.
Old 09-06-2022, 02:24 PM
  #38  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

The BVM crew has save the day yet again.
Mechanical arms are en route and will be here tomorrow.

If everything works according to plan, the T33 shall have another chance at the GSW.
Old 09-07-2022, 09:43 AM
  #39  
RCAdam03
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 35
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hnorth View Post
The BVM crew has save the day yet again.
Mechanical arms are en route and will be here tomorrow.

If everything works according to plan, the T33 shall have another chance at the GSW.
make sure you can get someone to film the redemption flight! Hoping it all goes well
Old 09-08-2022, 11:22 AM
  #40  
JeffH
My Feedback: (43)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Carrollton, VA
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by Jetpilot24 View Post
I PMed you. I have a set of flaps already built if interested. Let me know

Do you still have these?
Old 09-10-2022, 01:19 PM
  #41  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

All I can say is, I’m happy.

Full debrief tomorrow.

The following 2 users liked this post by Hnorth:
grbaker (09-10-2022), RCAdam03 (09-11-2022)
Old 09-12-2022, 06:28 AM
  #42  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

What a great weekend in Waco! Huge thanks to Dawn and the crew for the awesome and enjoyable time.

Here's the debrief on the T-33:

I can, 100% confirm that the CG stand I was using was 1000000% incorrect. This was a for sure set in stone confirmation after 3 other individuals who used the same stand had issues. One in fact lost his aircraft to it being too nose heavy. With that being said, the CG stand is hopefully in the garbage, and we're going back to the old school ways of putting a finger under each part of the wing/fuse.

First flight at Waco was rock solid. About two clicks of up trim, and one click of left, and it was game on. This plane absolutely floated like a butterfly, and flew pretty scale in my opinion. Just like a trainer! With these newer batteries, it was discussed and recommended to add a throttle mix to my transmitter. 100% on take off, after gear up, throttle reduces to a max of 80%. The newer batteries are a little bit harder on the motor. (70c vs 35c discharge) There's not a for sure timeline on how long/hard it can be on the motor before it fails, but better to be safe than sorry.

The first landing I had, couldn't have gone any better. Half speed brakes to try and understand how the plane would react, and no flaps created a somewhat hot landing. This was comforted by the spacious size of the runway at Waco. After bleeding off as much airspeed as I could, my spotter and good friend Andrew just muttered, "butter." Yes, it was a fantastic landing for what I was working with. Touch on the mains, and lowered the nose. I slowly applied the brakes, but quickly found out they weren't working the best. Luckily, it worked itself out, and it was discovered that a dried o-ring was causing a small leak. After applying some lube on the o-ring, it was time to go again!

Second and third flight: Man, this is the good stuff. I've been flying jets from all walks of life, but it was finally nice to have a nice little pattern plane. No 4 point rolls, no knife edges, just pure bliss and putting around. It's fun to go back to basic stuff sometimes. Sure it could do loops and rolls and split S's, but I wanted something just to putt around in. During my second and third landing, I saw no indication whatsoever that this plane was ready to snap. Even while bleeding off as much airspeed as I could on landing, I never saw a snap. With that being said, I'll still be super cautious of it, because you never know.

I am going to go back, fix the nose gear (I used an airblue as an immediate replacement), fix the nose doors and add lights to it.

If you've got an old DF jet, PLEASE consider switching it to EVF. It's such a great drop in replacement for the older systems.

Special THANK YOU to Tommy Dodgen for building this plane. Man, I wish he and Bob Violett could see it.. Also, Grandad for trusting me with this thing, Patty and Rob at BVM Jets for getting me parts and answering my questions and everyone else who has supported me along the way!

Next up, Aggressor 3.
The following users liked this post:
RCAdam03 (09-12-2022)
Old 09-12-2022, 08:50 AM
  #43  
hoser
 
hoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Miami Springs, FL
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

congrats on the flights!!!

it is my favorite go fly jet, mine was balanced the same old style finger tip method.
The following users liked this post:
Hnorth (09-14-2022)
Old 09-13-2022, 11:23 PM
  #44  
frankie
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Well done, great to hear a success story, the T-33 is just one great looking jet, especially the BVM kit.
Can you please elaborate on the lipo cell count used, what spec motor is in your 5012 and what type/size ESC you're using?

Regards, Frank
Old 09-14-2022, 04:38 AM
  #45  
kevin
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: columbus, OH
Posts: 131
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Very cool. I just finished my second old school EVF conversion two weeks ago.
Old 09-14-2022, 05:20 AM
  #46  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by frankie View Post
Well done, great to hear a success story, the T-33 is just one great looking jet, especially the BVM kit.
Can you please elaborate on the lipo cell count used, what spec motor is in your 5012 and what type/size ESC you're using?

Regards, Frank
Frankie, I'd be lying if I told you the specs on anything. There are some comments on other forums about the motor and ESC. Not for sure the specs, but the motor is manufactured by Neu(?) Motors and a Castle ESC.. For the cells, I'm using 2 Dinogy 5 cell lipos as saddle cells, and 1, 2 cell lipo up near the front of the plane. It CG's out perfect with the flight packs stuffed in the nose.
Old 09-14-2022, 05:21 AM
  #47  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Very cool. I just finished my second old school EVF conversion two weeks ago.
Hey! I recognize that plane! 99% sure I saw it on Facebook? Looks great! Definitely one of my next planes, BVM F86 - Huff Scheme.
What Lipos and flight time are you getting?
Old 09-14-2022, 06:16 AM
  #48  
kevin
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: columbus, OH
Posts: 131
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Got it 16 months ago, fairly local. not sure where I saw it originally. maybe Facebook?
12s 6600's and 7200's (they also fit in my Electra)
5612 EVF
only have one 5 minute flight. the nose gear door stuck and kept the nose gear from extending on landing on the maiden ... so have just a little work to do before the next flight.


Originally Posted by Hnorth View Post
Hey! I recognize that plane! 99% sure I saw it on Facebook? Looks great! Definitely one of my next planes, BVM F86 - Huff Scheme.
What Lipos and flight time are you getting?

Last edited by kevin; 09-14-2022 at 06:21 AM.
Old 09-15-2022, 12:49 PM
  #49  
jetmaven
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fl.
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Well I’ve been lurking this thread for a good while through all the ups and downs and for a good reason .
Im currently building what was a NIB 1992 version of the BV T-33 for a friend . It will have a BV fan running on 12S.
Over the years I’ve built a lot of BV Jets , countless Mavericks , Bandits , MiGs and two other T-33 for my
friends and customers . I did one of the first Maverick to turbine conversions , designed the tanks that are still available from Jettech .
Hudson , can you tell me what the all up weight came out to be on yours and maybe some tips on battery placement ? I’ve done my best to keep this as light as possible hoping I can just balance it with batteries .




This is where I’m at today , just added the vertical . Getting ready to prep for primer

Added the splitters that were an optional item on a corner of the plans

Did the full gear doors using the belly pan that was cut away from the fuse . I laminated a layer of 2 oz. carbon then cut out all the doors , added cylinders A bit of work but they came out well
Old 09-19-2022, 05:15 PM
  #50  
Hnorth
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: , TX
Posts: 82
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jetmaven View Post
Well I’ve been lurking this thread for a good while through all the ups and downs and for a good reason .
Im currently building what was a NIB 1992 version of the BV T-33 for a friend . It will have a BV fan running on 12S.
Over the years I’ve built a lot of BV Jets , countless Mavericks , Bandits , MiGs and two other T-33 for my
friends and customers . I did one of the first Maverick to turbine conversions , designed the tanks that are still available from Jettech .
Hudson , can you tell me what the all up weight came out to be on yours and maybe some tips on battery placement ? I’ve done my best to keep this as light as possible hoping I can just balance it with batteries .




This is where I’m at today , just added the vertical . Getting ready to prep for primer

Added the splitters that were an optional item on a corner of the plans

Did the full gear doors using the belly pan that was cut away from the fuse . I laminated a layer of 2 oz. carbon then cut out all the doors , added cylinders A bit of work but they came out well
Sorry for the delay. We unfortunately lost grandad Thursday, at the RC field. A hell of a way to go. Rest assured, we are all at peace. We know where he went, and his health is restored completely.

For the batteries! I sadly went against recommendations and used twin 5 Cell 7400mah batteries with a single 2 cell, 7400mah battery. I did end up using Dinogy LiPo’s and have had a positive experience with them so far. I have the edge of the batteries at the edge/on the mount of the fan. I can send you a picture. The 2 Cell is mounted right after the main center former, on the front half side. I was able to get away doing this and retain the original cockpit by cutting a small square for the 2 cell to drop in. It’s height is perfect enough for me to drop it in, and Velcro/the square cut out to hold the battery in place. Inverted flight? Probably not. But I’m getting away with it by treating this thing like a butterfly.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.