What paint?
08-13-2022, 06:43 PM
#1
What paint?
Shockingly few threads in this forum with the word paint in the title, so I’m guessing not many do their own painting. But for those of you who do still paint your own composite jets (or other planes), what is your paint of choice these days? PPG or some other automotive two part paint, Klass Kote, Warbird Colors, rattle cans, latex from Home Depot?
08-14-2022, 05:15 AM
#3
What I prefer
I prefer automotive urethane paint. The brand doesn’t really matter, as much as local accessibility. I’ve used Dupont, Nason, PPG, Omni, Smart, Restoration Shop, Custom Shop, House of Kolor, etc. The last 3 brands I have ordered from Amazon during Covid when the local store wasn’t allowing retail customers into the store.
-Urethane paint offers more variety of colors. And custom mixes.
-Urethane paint flash dries in 10 minutes and able to wet sand that quick.
-You don’t have to tear the HVLP gun down between colors. Only when using a hardener in clear coat, primer or sealer.
-Urethane paint will easily airbrush.
-Urethane paint is lighter in weight then the epoxy paints. Urethane flash dries, because the reducer evaporates, versus epoxy paint cures and doesn’t evaporate other then any reducer used.
-Epoxy paint takes 24 hours to cure before you can sand your errors. Epoxy paint if applied too heavy will sag or run on you during the curing and difficult to sand out, which is 24 hours later. During this wet curing time, the painted surface will attract bugs and dirt, if you don’t have a sealed paint booth. I paint in my garage.
-Urethane paint has a long shelf life if the can is properly sealed. I have some quarts that I am still using 10 years later.
-If you mix too much Urethane paint with reducer, it can simply be put back into the original can.
Some of my work.
Kandy is an option
-Urethane paint offers more variety of colors. And custom mixes.
-Urethane paint flash dries in 10 minutes and able to wet sand that quick.
-You don’t have to tear the HVLP gun down between colors. Only when using a hardener in clear coat, primer or sealer.
-Urethane paint will easily airbrush.
-Urethane paint is lighter in weight then the epoxy paints. Urethane flash dries, because the reducer evaporates, versus epoxy paint cures and doesn’t evaporate other then any reducer used.
-Epoxy paint takes 24 hours to cure before you can sand your errors. Epoxy paint if applied too heavy will sag or run on you during the curing and difficult to sand out, which is 24 hours later. During this wet curing time, the painted surface will attract bugs and dirt, if you don’t have a sealed paint booth. I paint in my garage.
-Urethane paint has a long shelf life if the can is properly sealed. I have some quarts that I am still using 10 years later.
-If you mix too much Urethane paint with reducer, it can simply be put back into the original can.
Some of my work.
Kandy is an option
Last edited by RCFlyerDan; 08-14-2022 at 06:15 AM.
08-14-2022, 07:33 AM
#5
Thanks guys, keep it coming. I was beginning to get the impression that most modelers were moving away from two stage automotive finishes but wasn’t sure exactly why. I’ve only painted a couple of models, the most recent being with PPG Shop Line paints. I very much enjoyed working with that paint, but getting it was a little bit of a headache. Also had to settle for the closest available factory automotive color matches, wouldn’t do a custom mix but I was told that just depends on the shop and even who’s working. Found another shop closer to me that deals with Axalta (DuPont) so I might give them a visit this week.
08-14-2022, 07:34 AM
#6
I prefer automotive urethane paint. The brand doesn’t really matter, as much as local accessibility. I’ve used Dupont, Nason, PPG, Omni, Smart, Restoration Shop, Custom Shop, House of Kolor, etc. The last 3 brands I have ordered from Amazon during Covid when the local store wasn’t allowing retail customers into the store.
Some of my work.
Kandy is an option
Some of my work.
Kandy is an option
08-14-2022, 07:44 AM
#7
Here is the whole jet. Just about ready for the maiden, but due to supply issues, can’t purchase the engine that I want for it. It’s a SM 1/5th F-16. It is painted with Pure White, Cobalt Blue Kandy, and Diablo Red Kandy.
Fuel panel and bypass is Diablo Red Kandy. The install wasn’t finished yet in the picture.
Articulating thrust nozzle that I also painted
Closed nozzle
The Kandy changes colors in the sun
This is Cobalt Blue Kandy and Pink Neon
Fuel panel and bypass is Diablo Red Kandy. The install wasn’t finished yet in the picture.
Articulating thrust nozzle that I also painted
Closed nozzle
The Kandy changes colors in the sun
This is Cobalt Blue Kandy and Pink Neon
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Halcyon66 (08-14-2022)
08-15-2022, 05:17 AM
#10
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Search engines on just about any web discussion forum are sorely lacking. One way around that is to, in a separate window or tab, using the search engine of your choice (some people don't like to use or support Google, so they use other engines such as DuckDuckGo, Binge, etc.), type in something like:
"rcuniverse.com fuelproof spray finish" (without the quotation marks)
That will generally produce far more accurately related results than using the search function within the web forum.
"rcuniverse.com fuelproof spray finish" (without the quotation marks)
That will generally produce far more accurately related results than using the search function within the web forum.
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grbaker (08-15-2022)
08-15-2022, 07:26 AM
#12
Senior Member
Shockingly few threads in this forum with the word paint in the title, so I’m guessing not many do their own painting. But for those of you who do still paint your own composite jets (or other planes), what is your paint of choice these days? PPG or some other automotive two part paint, Klass Kote, Warbird Colors, rattle cans, latex from Home Depot?
08-15-2022, 10:27 AM
#13
Search results notwithstanding, the point was there is not much talk about painting models recently and a lot might have changed since Jeremy's outstanding Firebird thread 12 years ago (which I did find and have read). Even the google search per Outrider's suggestion returns only a handful results within the past 5 years. Some products that were used in the past are difficult or even impossible to obtain today, regulations have changed formulas to previously beloved paints and solvents, prices have gone nuts, maybe there's something new in the last year or two that is incredible, etc. I very much appreciate any relevant input.
08-15-2022, 09:19 PM
#15
Search results notwithstanding, the point was there is not much talk about painting models recently and a lot might have changed since Jeremy's outstanding Firebird thread 12 years ago (which I did find and have read). Even the google search per Outrider's suggestion returns only a handful results within the past 5 years. Some products that were used in the past are difficult or even impossible to obtain today, regulations have changed formulas to previously beloved paints and solvents, prices have gone nuts, maybe there's something new in the last year or two that is incredible, etc. I very much appreciate any relevant input.
08-16-2022, 04:59 AM
#16
Simple. Use the paint from Ralle, or use automotive cellulose in the appropriate BS Finish with a coat of thinned 2k clear. Simple HVLP gun.
Heres the result !
Heres the result !
08-17-2022, 08:13 AM
#18
A bit more might help.The clear on my Sabre and the Hawk was U pol, clear with rapid hardner,, matting agent on the Hawk. My Sea Fury was similarly painted but with more matting to get that dullish WW 2 finish.
I recently painted my 1/3 scale Balsa USA Cub. It took 1 litre of automotive cellulose, well thinned. Base was yellow Solartex.
The fuel proof finish is, again, well thinned U pol with fast hardner, just a little matting agent, 5 % , looks perfect. 45 pounds for 1 litre, excellent value..
Cellulose does not require a mask (well, Ive never used one ) and for 2k I spray outdoors in early morning with just enough breeze to blow overspray clear so no spray inhalation.
over and out !
I recently painted my 1/3 scale Balsa USA Cub. It took 1 litre of automotive cellulose, well thinned. Base was yellow Solartex.
The fuel proof finish is, again, well thinned U pol with fast hardner, just a little matting agent, 5 % , looks perfect. 45 pounds for 1 litre, excellent value..
Cellulose does not require a mask (well, Ive never used one ) and for 2k I spray outdoors in early morning with just enough breeze to blow overspray clear so no spray inhalation.
over and out !
Last edited by David Gladwin; 08-17-2022 at 08:16 AM.
08-17-2022, 11:08 AM
#20
Ok cool, I guess the local RCU gatekeeper has judged us all worthy to discuss paint.
As someone posted, the 2 stage catalyzed clears are very toxic, isocyanate based, at least that what I believe. I used to believe you could only safely spray them with air fed systems, but I seem to remember reading that if you use a good charcoal system and keep track of the freshness of the cartridges it was OK to use. I am very careful around catalyzed polyurethane paint.
I have used PPG Deltron and House of Kolor. The stuff seems to last forever if you sealed it right. I have used 20 year old clear coat (I would kill for more of the particular brand I found, it is the hardest clearcoat I have ever seen by far). Its hard to get anything decent in California now but House of Kolor is pretty easy to get.
When I started out I used K&B Superpoxy (reformulated aircraft paint if I remember correctly). In fact I first used automotive paint as a clearcoat over K&B superpoxy as the K&B clear would yellow badly in the sun. I recently tried Klasskoat on a scale project as Dave Platt said it was basically the same as Superpoxy and Hobbypoxy. I found the epoxy paint to be easy to use but slow drying and of course it will turn your equipment to expensive junk if you dont clean it promptly before the paint starts curing.
It does dry incredibly hard and I found I dont really need to clearcoat it. But I generally dont use decals, so there is that to consider, if you are using waterslide decals.
As someone posted, the 2 stage catalyzed clears are very toxic, isocyanate based, at least that what I believe. I used to believe you could only safely spray them with air fed systems, but I seem to remember reading that if you use a good charcoal system and keep track of the freshness of the cartridges it was OK to use. I am very careful around catalyzed polyurethane paint.
I have used PPG Deltron and House of Kolor. The stuff seems to last forever if you sealed it right. I have used 20 year old clear coat (I would kill for more of the particular brand I found, it is the hardest clearcoat I have ever seen by far). Its hard to get anything decent in California now but House of Kolor is pretty easy to get.
When I started out I used K&B Superpoxy (reformulated aircraft paint if I remember correctly). In fact I first used automotive paint as a clearcoat over K&B superpoxy as the K&B clear would yellow badly in the sun. I recently tried Klasskoat on a scale project as Dave Platt said it was basically the same as Superpoxy and Hobbypoxy. I found the epoxy paint to be easy to use but slow drying and of course it will turn your equipment to expensive junk if you dont clean it promptly before the paint starts curing.
It does dry incredibly hard and I found I dont really need to clearcoat it. But I generally dont use decals, so there is that to consider, if you are using waterslide decals.
08-17-2022, 05:01 PM
#21
No idea where anyone got the idea cellulose paints don't require a mask when spraying. I guess nothing requires one if you don't care about living but in the real world cellulose paints absolutely require a mask, in fact, ANY paint you are spraying should only be done with a good cartridge mask. Even if the atomized paint is not chemically toxic the issues that can arise with inhalation are huge. They have even determined that essential oils, once believed to be a health benefit when in a diffuser are actually causing respiratory issues when used often due to the inhalation and coating of the lungs.
I'm usually in agreement with you on safety issues David but this time I 100% disagree. If you are spraying any paint, water borne or solvent base, or even brushing any solvent based paint you should ALWAYS wear a respirator.
To do otherwise is foolish to say the least, eventually fatal to say the worst.
I'm usually in agreement with you on safety issues David but this time I 100% disagree. If you are spraying any paint, water borne or solvent base, or even brushing any solvent based paint you should ALWAYS wear a respirator.
To do otherwise is foolish to say the least, eventually fatal to say the worst.
08-17-2022, 05:57 PM
#22
My Feedback: (1)
I take the time to study the material safety data sheets (MSDS) of product I use. Within them there is the needed information for protection. The ones I read for urethane clears stated that a charcoal filter was not sufficient protection.
Also, wearing a respirator without a proper fit is next to useless.
Also, wearing a respirator without a proper fit is next to useless.
08-18-2022, 01:41 AM
#23
Perhaps I should have been clearer. I ALWAYS spray outdoors with a very light breeze so ALL vapours, of any paint formula, are blown clear and there is NO chance of inhalation. Having had more than a passing acquaintance with organos. in jet aircraft engine oil, I avoid any and all such vapour exposure.
It it were indoors or in a spray booth, VERY different story, but for me its ALWAYS outdoors as above.
Sorry, should have made thar clearer.
Cellulose has been and is widely used on classic cars etc. It is single coat , fast drying and lighter than 2k. Its all on Google.
Ralle,s single coat paints ( I I believe they are cellulose and I use cellulose Thinner) are from Tailormadedecals.com , a German company who also make a huge range of excellent decals.They are expensive at 200 euros per litre but very good and accurate colours. See my two models above.
A great advantage of 1 k cellulose is any unused paint in the gun can go straight back to the paint can for later reuse, and gun cleaning need not be so instantaneous !
For my big Cub Ithought I would need at least 2 or 3 litres so tried cellulose from Jawal Paints in UK. Turns out very well indeed , needed only 1 litre, to my great surprise, so very economical. My Cub is not true Cub yellow but I gave Jawel the BS number and it EXACTLY matches the BS yellow supplied by Ralle of Tailormade for my AW Sea Fury undersides.
As waterslide and dry transfers need to be sealed and a harder, more durable finish required than cellulose creates a light spray if thinned Upol 2 k clear finishes the job to perfection.
So for me now, its cellulose for colour followed by 2 k clear to give the results I want.
It it were indoors or in a spray booth, VERY different story, but for me its ALWAYS outdoors as above.
Sorry, should have made thar clearer.
Cellulose has been and is widely used on classic cars etc. It is single coat , fast drying and lighter than 2k. Its all on Google.
Ralle,s single coat paints ( I I believe they are cellulose and I use cellulose Thinner) are from Tailormadedecals.com , a German company who also make a huge range of excellent decals.They are expensive at 200 euros per litre but very good and accurate colours. See my two models above.
A great advantage of 1 k cellulose is any unused paint in the gun can go straight back to the paint can for later reuse, and gun cleaning need not be so instantaneous !
For my big Cub Ithought I would need at least 2 or 3 litres so tried cellulose from Jawal Paints in UK. Turns out very well indeed , needed only 1 litre, to my great surprise, so very economical. My Cub is not true Cub yellow but I gave Jawel the BS number and it EXACTLY matches the BS yellow supplied by Ralle of Tailormade for my AW Sea Fury undersides.
As waterslide and dry transfers need to be sealed and a harder, more durable finish required than cellulose creates a light spray if thinned Upol 2 k clear finishes the job to perfection.
So for me now, its cellulose for colour followed by 2 k clear to give the results I want.
Last edited by David Gladwin; 08-18-2022 at 05:03 AM.
08-18-2022, 05:29 AM
#24
My Feedback: (26)
Perhaps I should have been clearer. I ALWAYS spray outdoors with a very light breeze so ALL vapours, of any paint formula, are blown clear and there is NO chance of inhalation. Having had more than a passing acquaintance with isos. in jet aircraft engine oil, I avoid any and all such vapour exposure.
It it were indoors or in a spray booth, VERY different story, but for me its ALWAYS outdoors as above.
Sorry, should have made thar clearer.
Cellulose has been and is widely used on classic cars etc. It is single coat , fast drying and lighter than 2k. Its all on Google.
Ralle,s single coat paints ( I I believe they are cellulose and I use cellulose Thinner) are from Tailormadedecals.com , a German company who also make a huge range of excellent decals.They are expensive at 200 euros per litre but very good and accurate colours. See my two models above.
A great advantage of 1 k cellulose is any unused paint in the gun can go straight back to the paint can for later reuse, and gun cleaning need not be so instantaneous !
For my big Cub Ithought I would need at least 2 or 3 litres so tried cellulose from Jawal Paints in UK. Turns out very well indeed , needed only 1 litre, to my great surprise, so very economical. My Cub is not true Cub yellow but I gave Jawel the BS number and it EXACTLY matches the BS yellow supplied by Ralle of Tailormade for my AW Sea Fury undersides.
As waterslide and dry transfers need to be sealed and a harder, more durable finish required than cellulose creates a light spray if thinned Upol 2 k clear finishes the job to perfection.
So for me now, its cellulose for colour followed by 2 k clear to give the results I want.
It it were indoors or in a spray booth, VERY different story, but for me its ALWAYS outdoors as above.
Sorry, should have made thar clearer.
Cellulose has been and is widely used on classic cars etc. It is single coat , fast drying and lighter than 2k. Its all on Google.
Ralle,s single coat paints ( I I believe they are cellulose and I use cellulose Thinner) are from Tailormadedecals.com , a German company who also make a huge range of excellent decals.They are expensive at 200 euros per litre but very good and accurate colours. See my two models above.
A great advantage of 1 k cellulose is any unused paint in the gun can go straight back to the paint can for later reuse, and gun cleaning need not be so instantaneous !
For my big Cub Ithought I would need at least 2 or 3 litres so tried cellulose from Jawal Paints in UK. Turns out very well indeed , needed only 1 litre, to my great surprise, so very economical. My Cub is not true Cub yellow but I gave Jawel the BS number and it EXACTLY matches the BS yellow supplied by Ralle of Tailormade for my AW Sea Fury undersides.
As waterslide and dry transfers need to be sealed and a harder, more durable finish required than cellulose creates a light spray if thinned Upol 2 k clear finishes the job to perfection.
So for me now, its cellulose for colour followed by 2 k clear to give the results I want.
If I'm not mistaken what David refers to as cellulose is nitrocellulose lacquer, or as it's commonly referred to in the states as just lacquer. Unfortunately due to environmental regulations lacquer paints started getting very hard to find in the late 90s and not carried by any of the several automotive paint stores within a 2 hour drive of where I live, because trust me if I could easily get it in the colors I want I would be using it. Lacquer and the old K&B/Hobbypoxy epoxy paints were my go to when they were easily available. I haven't looked into paint from Tailormade (have used their transfers) as I think there may be an issue with importing it into the states. All of my current planes are done it base/clear using either Nason or PPG Shopline base with Summit Racing house brand clear. If I'm doing something that doesn't require exact color match and I can pick an existing automotive color code I use Nason from the local O Reilly auto parts as its a bunch cheaper than the PPG. If I need a specific color I go to a nearby paint store and have the PPG color matched. I use the Summit clear as it's cheap, available in either gloss or satin and uses the same reducer and activator as their high build urethane primers. Does it shoot as good as PPG Concept or DuPont Chroma, no, but its less than 20% the price and does just fine in this application.
As far as protective equipment, if you can smell the paint you're inhaling something, how bad that it is for you depends on what it is and how much and for how long you inhale it. I typically shoot outdoors wearing a 1/2 face 3M respirator with the same cartridges that our painters use when spraying industrial epoxies and urethanes. If I was shooting a car or something where I would be spraying large quantities of paint and was exposed to the vapor for hours I would wear something different, but regardless you should always wear some form of respiratory protection.
08-18-2022, 07:08 AM
#25
The above shows the paint options from Jawel.co.uk. Excellent value at 20 gbp per half litre, plus vat.
Below is my Mig, painted in Humbrol oil based 20 years ago. Amazing covering power.
Whatever you choose, good luck guys and remember if you are spraying, filter, filter and filter again !
Last edited by David Gladwin; 08-18-2022 at 07:26 AM.
