Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

I'm working on a Yellow Starfire at the moment. The wings and tail surfaces are just about ready to attache with the retracts installed, surfaces hinged etc. I've got a couple simple questions on the fuselage:

The instructions are very old I think and mostly oriented to the origanl polyester glass fuse. I've got the epoxy version and I have aeropoxy glue. The instructions talk about stabilit glue and using a screw driver to lever space between the former and fuse side - put in some glue, let it squeeze out etc. then glass over the whole joint. Is it sufficient to glue the formers in with a generous fillet of aeropoxy front and back and be done with it? Or should the fan former also be glassed in as well.

Secondly, once I get all the formers in is it a good idea to paint the inside of the fuse with something fuel proof? My big electrics don't need that .

I'm planning on glassing the wings and painting with Nelson Hobbies paints which are supposedly totally fuel proof with the crosslinker added, thin with water and won't kill you. Any reason I shouldn't use that paint? I've done a couple smaller projects like a field box and it seems to hold up well...

Thanks!

jetflyrf86

My Feedback: (31)

I presume you are making the wings to be permanently affixed to the fuse. Best way to fabricate it is to glass all the flying surfaces with 3/4oz cloth and finish sand then brush 2 coats of primer and sand almost all off . Then use the aeropoxy to glue the wings to the fuse. then glass the wing fillet for strength. This is done to spread the load of landing, other wise a less than perfect landing will have your reparing the stress cracks at this joint. You can use a good fillet of aeropoxy on all internal formers as a sustitute for the fiberglass. Never used Nelson paints, but they seem to work. Over the years I have built 6 Starfires and they all flew great

Chris True

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I'll be doing removable wings - good point, all the landing loads are on those two formers. Maybe a little extra glass isn't such a bad idea.

lbrannan

My Feedback: (8)

I painted a Cyclone with Nelson paints. To spray, you have to thin quite a bit, then it ran very easily. The secret of course was to spray multiple coats, each very lightly. I did yellow with Nelson's clear over it. The result was not as good as the automotive paints, but I sprayed it in my basement which you cannot do with the others. I could not get that deep luster that automotive paint provides. Hope this helps.

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

Thanks.

I'm happy enough with how it looks, I'm more worried about whether it holds up OK. Nothing beats the automotive 2 part paints and I have used them in the past but I'm not really fully equipped - probably not the best idea.

Roger on the multiple coats, it was an adventure spraying the field box and figuring out how to do it right. First couple tries it looked great for a little while then 10 minutes later it had all run off into the corners! If the paint thickness is just right it dries in a few minutes then you can re-coat, get it too thick and its a runny mess. I did spray my 71" A-10 in gloss clear prior to the application of markings and that went well - I'm hopeful

Shaun Evans

Hi,

Congrats on the Starfire. As for the glue, don't worry about the Stabilit--it's for polyester as you suspected. You can use Aeropoxy (Hysol) to secure the formers, and you won't have to use any extra glass if you don't want to. The formers all go into the fuse on top of the carbon reinforcement, and it's plenty strong that way.

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

Thanks, that helps.

Nice kit, I'm used to actually building. This is more like assembling and hinging with the LE's already applied, gear mounts in place and pockets pre-routed. The glass work on the fuse parts is top notch as well.

One problem - in a couple spots they tell you to use "scrap ply" - what scrap . There isn't any scrap in the whole box! Just about everything is included though except for some Robart horns, clevises and pushrods. All the hinges, screws etc. are all good quality stuff.

jetfreak

My Feedback: (9)

LOL It is assumed that you have done some prior building and would have some "SCRAP" ply laying around. If not, head to the hobby store and pickup a small sheet of aircraft grade ply in 1/8 and 3/16. You will have plenty to spare. Here is a pic of my starfire.

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

Oh I'm not complaining, just thought it was funny.

I had a little scrap left over from this 17 pound monster:

Chris True

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Success!

The Starfire flew for the first time today. No joy on the grass runway so I moved to the dirt / gravel access road / parking lot. I had about 200 feet of usable area before I needed to shutdown and run into the grass to stop in time to avoid damage. I tuned the mixture for max revs and had a club mate hold the tail as it cleared it's throat throttling up. Nodded for release, she veered to the right and I applied left rudder, more left, FULL left . Pointed in the right direction now and still accelerating I steered to follow the left bend in the road. A little up no rotation, running out of room, more up, still no rotation. I started to shutdown when it ran off the road into the grass. There is a sort of ramp at the transition which popped the nose up and it was flying -- jam the throttle back in .

Steady climb and 20 degrees or so, retract the gear, fly the first 180. Leveling off I worked on the aileron trim then pulled up the takeoff flap and richened the mixture a bit. I flew circuits for a while trying the 3 aileron duel rates in turn - low is not enough, medium about right at highspeed and full works well when slow. I did one blistering pass for the camera at full chat in a 20+ degree dive then flew around at half for a while. She is definately fast but not unmanagable. It's probably somewhat faster than my El Bandito but proportionate to size they are similar visually.

Then it was time to land. Gear out, throttle down to 1/3rd, first notch of flaps at 20 degrees. I flew one pass at 15 feet, throttling up a bit to enter down wind. Throttle down to 1/4, add the final notch of flap for 35 degrees. After the final turn I dropped to a fast idle and she came in steady at quite a reasonable speed! Little bit of a flare and the Starfire touched halfway down the 620 foot grass strip. The nose collapsed and she slid gently to a stop - glad I left the nose door off for the first flights! I walked over and picked up the nose, the gear extended then I taxied back to the pits. Guess the steering cables are a tad tight.

I'm very happy with how it flies. 13.5 pounds RTF with a 50 ounce wing loading yet the landing is very steady at a not as fast as you might think speed. Equipment - Dynamax, OS .91, JMP System 2 pipe, JR 9011's on elevator, 3421's on Rudder and Aileron, DS-368's on flaps, Hitec HS-85's on retract and throttle, Futaba 3102 on mixture and a Hitec 225 on nose steering. A big 3,200 mah Nimh 4 cell Rx pack in the nose put the balance right where it needed to be without extra lead.

The wings are pretty much finish painted, the rest is mostly primer as I have run out of color and am waiting for a shipment. Nelson Hobbies epoxy white primer and polyurethane colors.

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

Congrats!

Now you need to get with Shaun and have him tell you how to shoe-horn a Ram 1000 in that thing...

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

Thanks! 1000 eh? Maybe if I hit the lotto

jetflyrf86

My Feedback: (31)

Chris

Starfires' are not meant to fly off grass, wheels are too small. Make sure you have approx 3 degrees AOA, as your description says you don't have enough. If you need to get off in about 200 ft, procedure is to have helper hold a/c, go to full throttle with about 20 deg of takeoff flap dialed in. Used to get mine off a 220 ft paved runway as described. Great flying machine.

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

Thanks jetflyr.

I was fully aware it probably wasn't going to get off the grass, at least at this time of year. I've flown my 8 pound electric El Bandito launching off the access road many times so I have a pretty good idea it should work. There is probably quite a bit more than 200 feet if you steer just right but it does get narrow towards the end . Flaps were set at 20 degrees as someone suggested here - maybe you!

I'll have to check the AOA. I now positive is desireable but the ability to do that on this plane is pretty limited unless you enlarge the nose well opening - the wheel just about hits the back edge as is. I'll be looking in to getting some time at Pax River on the weekends. Short of that you go with what's available .

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

After finally getting the paint I was waiting for I finished her off this weekend. Still needs a graphic or two but the pianting is done!

grbaker

My Feedback: (29)

My JMP Starfire would get off of grass in 250 - 300' with no wind. With any kind of headwind, it would get off in 100 - 150'. Sounds like you need to lengthen your nose strut. Mine had the pre-bent struts that came with the JMP kit, so maybe Tom had more positive built in to it than Yellow shows in their instructions. It had the stock sized tires on it also. Takeoffs on pavement were usually about 150' - 200' with no flaps. I built 2 of them and you can't ask for a better flying airframe. I have one of Tom's last kits and will probably put a turbine in it, when I get around to building it.

kmurray

The finish looks good Chris. Is there clear coat on it yet ? Or after the graphics ?

Chris True

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No clear yet.

If I do it it'll be after some more graphics. Clear isn't strickly needed - the paint looks quite good now and it is totally fuel proof.

Chris True

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I managed to get it off the grass at my home field today. We changed mowing companies and it is actually far better than it has ever been in the 6 years I've been in this area - less than an inch high.

Took a good 400+ foot run. Of course I had the legth so I wasn't really pulling till the end. Aside from a longer strut, what aobut flap position? I've using 20 degrees for takeoff and 45 for landing. Is it inadvisable to try 45 on takeoff from grass? Great flying plane as long as you don't pull too hard - I tried to turn a little too tight early in the flight - the nose dropped and she was right on the edge of a snap. Rolls on a string, nice 4-points and knife edge passes. Landing with full flaps is sweet - I like it

Shaun Evans

As long as you don't pull too hard?

That makes me wonder if you don't have a CG (or some other) issue. In six models that is the one thing I never was able to do--high-speed stall it.

Chris True

My Feedback: (14)

Don't think there is anything wrong with the CG - more likely it just wasn't going fast enough yet, it was within the first couple of circuits so the flaps had only been up for a turn or two. It's a touch over 15 pounds full of fuel so the wing loading is ahh - firm. The plane basically handles well so I'm not complaining.