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SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

Old 10-19-2004, 10:08 AM
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SALMONBUG
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Default SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

Hello folks,

in a very near future I will perform my first turbine flight with a super reaper (reeves kit) powered with a wren mw54.

the building thread of this plane is here

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_19..._1/key_/tm.htm

Now I am at the point were I have to decide how I will setup the flight controls

reeves instructions are not very clear about it. He says to mix the canard with elevons and that's it.


what are your flight controls setting with that airplane ?

thanks a lot
Old 10-19-2004, 11:15 AM
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jetflyer
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

I have a Ram 750P which can put out 22lbs, but I am fly it on only 14lbs currently. My throws are setup in the following:

Canards: + 30mm / - 25mm
Aileron: + / - 20mm
Elevator: + / - 10mm
CG: 21.5"

Keep in mind I setup my Reaper like a Delta type jet with elevons too. I originally had the CG set to Mick's recommendation ( 530mm from the back) but it was very pitch sensitive. So I moved it forward to 21.5" from the back. Also, I add some downward thrust to the turbine which seems to also make it fly better at higher speeds.

For the first few landings I did do as Mick suggested and shut down the turbine after I was lined up and on final towards the runway. It does like to glide if the nose is not kept pointed up. Other then that, it flies great and you will love it!

JR
Old 10-19-2004, 11:23 AM
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SALMONBUG
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

thanks for your reply


ok, you suggest a delta programation and a canard mixed to the elevator elevon function

that was my idea also

do you have expo on it or any dual rate, or do you fly it the same settings the entire flight ?
Old 10-19-2004, 11:50 AM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

SALMONBUG,

I agree with jetflyer, In that you should move the CG about an inch (25 mm) FORWARD form what Mick says. I have my Reaper set up with elevator on the canard, ailerons on the outer trailing edge of the wing and flaps on the inner. I only use the flaps for "crow" in that when I turn on the mix, the ailerons deflect up, the flaps down, and the elevator is re-trimmed. This allows me to do approaches while carrying a little power above idle. Without crow, I must keep the power at idle from downwind all the way to touchdown which requires careful planning. I have tried the elevator flap mixing but I don't like it. With the canards, the pitch control it smooth and you can't get into to a stall very easily. With flap mixing, it seems to be less predictable. I can still do outside snap rolls with the mixing off though. I am away from home so I don't have the control throws available. When I return to home I can measure them if you would like.

Regards,

John
Old 10-19-2004, 12:12 PM
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SALMONBUG
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

mine has no flaps, seems Mick made several upgrades on the new reaper version, mine is 'old one", 6 months old only by the way........
Old 10-19-2004, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

ORIGINAL: jetflyer

:

Canards: + 30mm / - 25mm
Aileron: + / - 20mm
Elevator: + / - 10mm
CG: 21.5"

to avoid any confusion about the canard by +30 -25 you mean that the canard move 25 mm down (meaning the plane climb) ???????

ok stupid question when talking about conventional flight controls, but in this particulat case there may be a doubt
Old 10-19-2004, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

This is great info guys, I am not too far from getting mine ready to go as well. I have the newer version (Made about 1 month ago), so there are no flaps, although it could easier be incorporated. Thanks for the heads up on the CG.
Tommy
Old 10-19-2004, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

My Reaper did not have flaps but I modified it during construction. Way back when (2 years ago) when I built it, there was talk that the Reaper was hard to to rotate on takeoff. So I thought that flap mixing would help and I made the inner trailing edge the flap instead of gluing it to the wing. Additionally, in an effort to get more pitch control, I modified the elevator by adding 1" to trailing edge near the fuse with the piece tapering to a point at the elevator tip. I think that this was detailed here in a post many moons ago. Well, let me tell you, with the cg as recommended (too far aft) and the extra elevator area, I had some very interesting approaches and landings until I sorted the thing out! I also modified mine to have retracts and I positioned the gear such that the forward edge of the main wheel was right at the CG and it rotates fine.

Regards,

John
Old 10-19-2004, 05:23 PM
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Jetfun1
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

ORIGINAL:to avoid any confusion about the canard by +30 -25 you mean that the canard move 25 mm down (meaning the plane climb) ???????

ok stupid question when talking about conventional flight controls, but in this particulat case there may be a doubt

Hello Salmonbug !

I am Flying my Super Reaper now since Feb and i love that trainer.

Yes you are right --> canyards down = + = climb

Put the canyards +/- 30mm +=( better for rotating...)

For the beginning i recommend you to shut down the turbine for landing.
I do this by lining up into final and than glide for touch down.
If you fly by stronger wind you can land with idle turbine.
But be aware of the ground effect, this plane is like a glider and with my Behotec T66 i have 0,4N thrust on idle.
I also installed a hopper tank to avoid flame out´s (I had that in the beginning), but many other Reaper pilots fly without one.

Hope that helps you for the first flight

Regards
Robert
Old 10-19-2004, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

SALMONBUG

Yes, that is correct +30mm / -25mm means the -25mm will cause the Reaper's nose to lift. And +30mm will cause the nose to drop. To remove all doubt, with -25mm, the control surface on the canards should start at 0 horizontal and move down towards the ground by 25mm. And it should move up towards the sky by 30mm.

I do not fly with any expo, I like to feel the entire stick movement. Since you have retracts, I don't think you are going to have the common problem associated with the wire gear - bounced landings. To remedy the problem I finally got some aluminum gear made to replace the wire gear and the start of the gear is 16.5" from the back of the Reaper.

As Catusflyer stated, on landing I would go to idle just after you turn for downwind. Let it slow down and only add power if necessary. Keep the downwind to final turn a little wide and only adjust power if you feel it might not make it. Otherwise, it should come right on in and you can use the elevator to control the landing speed.

It took me about 15 flights before I got really comfortable landing the Reaper without any problems. Of course the new gear helped tremendously and I was really starting to enjoy the Reaper before it went in this year at Greater Southwest due to a glitch. I am presently rebuilding it and it will fly again.

JR
Old 10-19-2004, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

Our Reaper came in at a stout 22lb, most of that from a bad guess that it would be tailheavy with a TJT 3000 in the back...{We have had it dialed as high as 24lbs thrust, and that allows for very exciting vertical performance, and Space Shuttle launch - type take offs } .After routing, carving, sanding, and drilling away the some of excess wood we had built into the nose, my buddy and I have come close to the recommended cg. Big change for us was to go to an all flying canard (custom made by a local composite guru). It is very sensitive on pitch at high rates..there is no expo because of all the mixing involved (elevons). Take off and flying is really easy.. Landing is more challenging - you have to guide that heavy weight down, while allowing for speed, altitude, attitide, residual thrust, sink rate, wind, etc etc. Get it too slow, and it rocks the wings ...to fast, and it will never quit flying..... So far landings are a crap shoot...sometimes you get lucky, othertimes...well, see the photo.
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Old 10-20-2004, 01:16 AM
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SALMONBUG
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

I didn't put the bird parts on the scale yet, but I feel my hair are going to dress on my head (difficult to translate this kind of sensation in english) when I will know my final weight.

on my reaper i have

- eurokit retract (heavy) and associated valves, airtank and stuffs
- brake assembly and associated stuff
-full autostart function (involving big 6 cells 2400 mah battery, gas tank and all associated stuffs)
- dual alimentation with two 2000 Mah 6v nicad battery

the wren I builded from a kit is very healty and produce a bit more than 6 kg thrust (that's good perfo for the mw54)

I am confident with the flight of the bird itself, it has big wing aera, thick profile. It won't be a speed demon and that's what I want for my first jet.
I builded it with all those function because i wanted to have a kind of test stand of all the system involved in my future jet on a relatively basic and easy airframe

I am a bit more concerned about take of on grass field especialy when I read the coments about the wrong positioning of the main legs. My retract is positioned exactly where reeves suggest the fixed gear. I hope I'll be able to accelerate and rotate this heavy stuff

If I have to sacrifice some things to reduce my final weight, I will remove the brake system first, and if it's not enough I will remove one of the two battery and fly on a single healty RX battery and finaly if tt's not enough, I will remove the onboard starter and gas tank and start the wren with electrical external starter
Old 10-20-2004, 05:22 AM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

You will like the Reaper! Just remember to land it slow with the nose up or it will bounce. This plane will not tip stall, at stall it will just start to descend. I have almost landed vertical in a stiff wind! The info that Jetflyer and others gave is right on. I am still flying my reaper with the cg where Mick suggested without any problems. I set my reaper up as a delta wing and then mixed the canards in to the elevator portion of the delta setup. If you do not mix elevon with the canards you may run out of elevator when landing slow. I am using a 17 pound thrust turbine and unless you get the nose up and let it stall, it will keep flying and will not land. Make sure that the fins are secure on the side of the plane. The washers that Mick gave may not be enough and I have heard that if you use T nuts inside that the will pull through. I used large washers inside and lock nuts to cure this. Let is know how it goes!

Good luck!

Gene
Old 10-20-2004, 05:37 AM
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jetflyer
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

SALMONBUG

Your gear placement should be fine. I mounted my upgraded gear along the same line as Mick suggested for the his wire gear. It rotates fine. Since your flying off grass with 12lbs of thrust, make sure your at 3/4 to full power after you rotate and it will climb out fine. I've tried adjusting my turbine from 12lbs to 16lbs of thrust and with 16lbs climb outs are more aggressive and I can go verticle shortly after take off.

Nony,

You might consider my upgraded gear I sale for the Reaper. Only $35 and well worth it. (See pictures)

JR Gautreaux
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Old 10-20-2004, 01:11 PM
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SALMONBUG
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

we talk about her, but nobody saw her

here she is, hatches are in the paint room and the nose gear on the workbench, but isn't she cude?
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Old 10-24-2004, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

Reaper Setup

Having done more 161 flights over two years with my Super Reaper with standard layout and fixed undercarriage and a Wren MW54, my advice is to rig it like a poor man’s Eurosport. It will then behave like a ***** cat. There is no need for crow braking, flaps or air brakes.

The problem with standard rig, when elevator is controlled solely by the front canard is the fantastic efficiency of the wing. With a MW54 you can fit camera, global positioning devices plus the self start etc. plus a half gallon of fuel plus UAT and she will still fly beautifully. The problem is the glide. Cut the engine to dead stick and she will comfortably glide 200 yards on 15ft in still air! Hence the need to set her up like a Eurosport. The CG is pretty elastic 530 to 560mm from the trailing edge seems to work fine. I prefer about 540mm.

The Eurosport requires a computer transmitter (in my case a Futaba FF9). The rear ailerons are setup as elevons (use 4.5Kg/cm servos or more). The front canard (standard 3.0Kgcm servos are OK) are controlled by a slave channel to the elevator operating through a 3 position switch and in my case variable resistors A & C. Elevator and aileron both have 25% exponential.

Position 1 – set front canard 3-5deg positive (ie down) using VRC and slave to the elevator. This is for take off and she will probably lift off of her own accord around 100 yards full throttle and climb rapidly. If still on the ground at 150yards, go for a little rotation with the elevator. Note the front wheel must lift the fuselage to give a few deg positive angle of attack. A negative angle tends to make the model stick to the ground like a limpit. Note the Eurosport has a large positive angle of attack when stationary.

Position 2 – set neutral to 2-4 deg negative using clevis adjustment. No action with elevator and rely entirely on elevon.

Position 3 – set front canard to 7-9 deg negative and slave to elevator using VRA.

On first flight let the model climb to a comfortable height. Switch to position 2 and trim with elevator trim to a steady climb at full throttle. Switch to position 3 and using VRA adjust to achieve level flight. If you get it balanced nicely, the model will maintain level flight from full to medium throttle. The reward for all this hassle is the landing. Go into a practice landing circuit and find the lowest throttle position you can maintain height. Reduce the throttle a couple clicks further and line up for the run way (allow for quite a loss of height in the turns) and then control your final rate of descent with another couple of clicks on the throttle. You will find with quite a gentle angle of attack, you can get a steep angle of descent at slow speed. Flair when a couple of feet from the ground so that the rear wheels touch first. Assuming a fixed UC with the Mick Reeves shock absorber, there will be no bounce but just a lovely greasy landing.

Hope this is helpful
My colour schem is much the same yours - see photo on Mick Reeves site.
Old 10-29-2004, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

here is a pic of my reaper during the first few engine test on the plane. it will be too late in the season to fly it this year. hatch are still in primer, but it will be ready to rock next year !!

I have also to make some wren marking on it I am proud of that engine
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Old 10-29-2004, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

too late ??? I don't see any snow on the ground......
Old 10-30-2004, 06:28 AM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

we have a lot of wind actualy, hope this will be better soon
Old 11-14-2004, 06:10 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

So what's up with your maiden flight SalmonBug ? Is your turbine problem fixed ?
Old 11-14-2004, 07:09 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

Reaper set up:
I have kept the CG as per the instructions - 530mm from the trailing edge and I have configured my reaper the same as the latest revision - NO front canard control, just elevons only +/- 12 mm. I have not fitted retracts, flaps or airbrakes either.
The model is around 17 Lbs with the main fuel tank empty and I have a KJ 66 for power. In this simple configuration, I find the model flies great at all speeds. The landings are the same as what everybody else has said - bleed off the speed or shutdown the turbine and keep the nose up, or it will bounce.

duthie.
Old 10-11-2005, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

hey im building my first jet and its going to be a super reaper, does any one have any advise for besides what ive alreadt read above. i know about how to land it and the landing gear, but i need info on how to install the retracts, and what all the retract parts i need to make it operational including brakes. where do i get retracts? and also i need info on how to install the radio and servo stuff. if its anything i dont know its that. i have no clue how to install them or where to get it or if it comes in a kit or what? thanks, johnathan.
Old 10-11-2005, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

I wouldn't bother with retracts in the Reaper...you would be far better off with a Reaction 54..it has flaps and retracts and flies very decently and importantly, is very easy to land.

There is lots of room in the fuselage to install everything. just keep your turbine wiring down one side, and your servo leads on the other....
Old 10-11-2005, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

ya its pretty awsome, and convincing too. i like it, but it all seems to easy, like i know what im saying is bulls**t but i want more of a challange thats why i want the reaper, and i can modify it to have flaps, but i really dont need them, i use my brakes and let it roll to a stop, and i can put the retracts in the new kit because now they sell a kit that is modified to accept them. hey thanks for showing me that website because it answered alot of my questions regarding servos, and retracts, and what i need to build them. plus the r54 had to have the wings covered with material, when the reaper doesnt. thanks alot man, johnathan.
Old 10-11-2005, 10:35 PM
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Default RE: SUPER REAPER MAIDEN FLIGHT SOON NEED ADVISES

you must be talking about the arf, then.... not the original Mick Reeves Super Reaper..It was a built up kit, and you had to cover the wings..

Since you have made up your mind, you will find taking off and flying are not a problem. Its capabilities depend largely on how heavy it comes out, and how big an engine you have. Landing is the challange as youi would have read above. Mick Reeves suggests shutting the turbine off on final and gliding in...at least to begin with. That is a really, really good advice...trust me!!

Turbines are very humbling, no matter how much previous experience you have had. They are a different breed and require a different flying style. Good luck!!

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