new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
03-11-2005, 11:53 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Alan
Good to hear from you again, hope you enjoyed Florida Jets. Intro is flying very well and retracts have solved L/G problems. Going to try moving the CG back to 185mm behind the leading edge and lose some of the nose lead.
John
Good to hear from you again, hope you enjoyed Florida Jets. Intro is flying very well and retracts have solved L/G problems. Going to try moving the CG back to 185mm behind the leading edge and lose some of the nose lead.
John
03-11-2005, 11:54 AM
#152
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
These Kavan brakes look like they would work great, I would be very interested to hear about your experiences with these. They might work for some of my other models as well. Are there any specific wheel requirements for using these or will they work with most anything.
Tommy
Tommy
03-11-2005, 12:15 PM
#153
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
ORIGINAL: DocYates
These Kavan brakes look like they would work great, I would be very interested to hear about your experiences with these. They might work for some of my other models as well. Are there any specific wheel requirements for using these or will they work with most anything.
Tommy
These Kavan brakes look like they would work great, I would be very interested to hear about your experiences with these. They might work for some of my other models as well. Are there any specific wheel requirements for using these or will they work with most anything.
Tommy
Dave Rigotti
03-11-2005, 12:19 PM
#154
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
ORIGINAL: Keroboost
Seems to me that Dave Rigotti (see post 128) has the right ideas for weight saving aft of the CG. I have used midi servos on the rudders and they proved to be fine. Using less weight in the tail area is definitely effective in producing a lighter final weight by a much bigger margin than you'd think.
As for brakes, my Intro will stand stationary with the turbine idling and stop after landing. I have used add on brakes with Robart wheels successfully, but I'm going to try those Kavan electro mechanical ones on the nose wheel only and see if they do the trick and maybe save another few ounces.
Seems to me that Dave Rigotti (see post 128) has the right ideas for weight saving aft of the CG. I have used midi servos on the rudders and they proved to be fine. Using less weight in the tail area is definitely effective in producing a lighter final weight by a much bigger margin than you'd think.
As for brakes, my Intro will stand stationary with the turbine idling and stop after landing. I have used add on brakes with Robart wheels successfully, but I'm going to try those Kavan electro mechanical ones on the nose wheel only and see if they do the trick and maybe save another few ounces.
Glad your travels went well. Patricia is simply wonderful to talk with. I can't see where you could have a better person heading your USA division!
The boomerang jet shown in the FJ 2005 thread is that a kit built?
Dave Rigotti
03-12-2005, 10:15 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Diane's new "Baby Boomer" she got at Florida Jets. It's now about ready to install the engine and should be flying this coming week. Power is a PST600R and it will have fixed gear for now.
03-13-2005, 12:33 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Bill, and anyone planning to use the fixed gear supplied with the Intro, I suggest that you should put three or four long wood screws (after drilling pilot holes) or 3mm. bolts and nuts right through through the mounting blocks vertically and perhaps add some thin cyano generously all round between the layers after inserting the wire legs, of course. John Agnew found that the ply making up the blocks tended to shear between the layers. The original blocks in the prototype used solid hardwood blocks, but this was not availble for the kits for some reason, hence the ply. Until I can get solid blocks made this is a solution for the fixed main gear mounting. And yes, the white Intro in the 2005 Fla.Jets was an early Intro ARF kit owned by Mark Hinton. Only the colour scheme is different. Here's a shot of the really neat installation on his model. A video of Ali flying this Intro at Fla. Jets will eventually be on the www.boomerangjets.com website when I get it from SKS Video.
Alan
[img][/img]
Alan
[img][/img]
03-14-2005, 04:14 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Alan
Very nice gear install on Mark's intro. I shall have to do better in future!
I have installed the Wren 44 in the Intro airframe for testing purposes while the 54 is back at Wren for checkover. I have been able to take 8oz of lead out of the nose and the dry weight is just under 14lbs with a full hopper tank. CG at 190mm back from LE. Unfortunately weather is not looking good this week but will try to get a flight as soon as possible.
John
Very nice gear install on Mark's intro. I shall have to do better in future!
I have installed the Wren 44 in the Intro airframe for testing purposes while the 54 is back at Wren for checkover. I have been able to take 8oz of lead out of the nose and the dry weight is just under 14lbs with a full hopper tank. CG at 190mm back from LE. Unfortunately weather is not looking good this week but will try to get a flight as soon as possible.
John
03-14-2005, 06:36 AM
#159
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Alan,
Can you please tell us what the Intro weighs that Ali is flying in the Video?
Did it require any nose weight? If so, how much?
This will give us a good target to shoot for. I'd like mine to fly exaactly like it!
I understand it has a JetCat P60?
Any hints and tips that would help us that have come to light? I think we all know about the fixed LG blocks.
Are you using any ferrite beads or such on the servo extensions for the rudder and elevator?
Thanks for your time!
Dave Rigotti
Can you please tell us what the Intro weighs that Ali is flying in the Video?
Did it require any nose weight? If so, how much?
This will give us a good target to shoot for. I'd like mine to fly exaactly like it!
I understand it has a JetCat P60?
Any hints and tips that would help us that have come to light? I think we all know about the fixed LG blocks.
Are you using any ferrite beads or such on the servo extensions for the rudder and elevator?
Thanks for your time!
Dave Rigotti
03-14-2005, 06:42 AM
#160
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
ORIGINAL: john agnew
Alan
Very nice gear install on Mark's intro. I shall have to do better in future!
I have installed the Wren 44 in the Intro airframe for testing purposes while the 54 is back at Wren for checkover. I have been able to take 8oz of lead out of the nose and the dry weight is just under 14lbs with a full hopper tank. CG at 190mm back from LE. Unfortunately weather is not looking good this week but will try to get a flight as soon as possible.
John
Alan
Very nice gear install on Mark's intro. I shall have to do better in future!
I have installed the Wren 44 in the Intro airframe for testing purposes while the 54 is back at Wren for checkover. I have been able to take 8oz of lead out of the nose and the dry weight is just under 14lbs with a full hopper tank. CG at 190mm back from LE. Unfortunately weather is not looking good this week but will try to get a flight as soon as possible.
John
WOW sounds interesting! Keep us posted!
Has Alan reviewed the CG location called out in the instructions? I know that 25%MAC balance was quite a bit further aft than indicated. 190mm vs 150mm? Did your Intro fly well at the rearward location? Can it go further aft?..."In your opinion"?
Dave Rigotti
03-14-2005, 07:00 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Dave
I have been flying the Intro at a CG of 175mm back from the LE with no problems. I have discussed this with Alan and he has flown the model with the CG futher back than this although I don't have aspecific figure.
He did say the model is prone to dropping a wing at slow speed if you push the CG too far. I am still confident 190mm will be ok as that is only 5mm more than 25% of MAC.
Will let you know what happens! Your Intro can't be far away now!
John
I have been flying the Intro at a CG of 175mm back from the LE with no problems. I have discussed this with Alan and he has flown the model with the CG futher back than this although I don't have aspecific figure.
He did say the model is prone to dropping a wing at slow speed if you push the CG too far. I am still confident 190mm will be ok as that is only 5mm more than 25% of MAC.
Will let you know what happens! Your Intro can't be far away now!
John
03-14-2005, 07:41 AM
#162
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
ORIGINAL: john agnew
Dave
I have been flying the Intro at a CG of 175mm back from the LE with no problems. I have discussed this with Alan and he has flown the model with the CG futher back than this although I don't have aspecific figure.
He did say the model is prone to dropping a wing at slow speed if you push the CG too far. I am still confident 190mm will be ok as that is only 5mm more than 25% of MAC.
Will let you know what happens! Your Intro can't be far away now!
John
Dave
I have been flying the Intro at a CG of 175mm back from the LE with no problems. I have discussed this with Alan and he has flown the model with the CG futher back than this although I don't have aspecific figure.
He did say the model is prone to dropping a wing at slow speed if you push the CG too far. I am still confident 190mm will be ok as that is only 5mm more than 25% of MAC.
Will let you know what happens! Your Intro can't be far away now!
John
Thanks for the info! DHL says Wednesday for delivery. Will take a day or two to determine exactly what I need to order in. Add a week for that delivery and we are looking at mid April for the maiden.
Dave Rigotti
03-14-2005, 07:53 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Dave
Good news. I hope my Jetco will be arriving from Germany in the next day or so , was mailed to me on Friday, will post some pics for your information, how's your 44 project coming along? Any pics yet?
John
Good news. I hope my Jetco will be arriving from Germany in the next day or so , was mailed to me on Friday, will post some pics for your information, how's your 44 project coming along? Any pics yet?
John
03-14-2005, 08:01 AM
#164
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
ORIGINAL: john agnew
Dave
Good news. I hope my Jetco will be arriving from Germany in the next day or so , was mailed to me on Friday, will post some pics for your information, how's your 44 project coming along? Any pics yet?
John
Dave
Good news. I hope my Jetco will be arriving from Germany in the next day or so , was mailed to me on Friday, will post some pics for your information, how's your 44 project coming along? Any pics yet?
John
Cut out the fuse sides and laminated the pieces yesterday. Will make up the wing skins tonight. Maybe get to the fuse doublers too! Give me a bit more time before pictures. Still undecided on the retracts. Not liking the idea of Spring Airs being extended all the time during transport. Looking into Robart...MANY versions to choose from! FYI.. Its a low wing sport looking type jet along the lines of Bruce Tharpe's Reaction 54.
Dave Rigotti
03-14-2005, 11:01 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Dave,
The Intro in the videos on the Boomerang website is a stock kit and carries 4 oz. noseweight. I do use 2400 nicads 5 cells for the RX. so that helps with the CG. The turbine is a Jetcat P60. All up dry weight is 14lbs 4 ounces.
If smaller lighter servos were on the rudders and I had used carbon pushrods then I could have lost the lead up front and easily made it under 14 lbs, I think, but it was the one I opened on Wednesday and flew on Saturday. I must stop being so eager! It's still flying great.
As for the CG, Intro will fly well over a wide range of CG positions but it seems I played too safe in the instructions. I'll check it out and post again next week.
Alan
The Intro in the videos on the Boomerang website is a stock kit and carries 4 oz. noseweight. I do use 2400 nicads 5 cells for the RX. so that helps with the CG. The turbine is a Jetcat P60. All up dry weight is 14lbs 4 ounces.
If smaller lighter servos were on the rudders and I had used carbon pushrods then I could have lost the lead up front and easily made it under 14 lbs, I think, but it was the one I opened on Wednesday and flew on Saturday. I must stop being so eager! It's still flying great.
As for the CG, Intro will fly well over a wide range of CG positions but it seems I played too safe in the instructions. I'll check it out and post again next week.
Alan
03-14-2005, 11:23 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Dave
I think what Alan is saying sounds reasonable. If you put the Jetcat solenoids/ecu/pump/battery as far forward as possible and use a UAT which I think is 10ozs full I think you could get a DRY weight of 14lbs 4oz I think the model should be balanced with a full UAT as this (or a hopper tank as I use) should never be empty.
I have given the 44 a couple of runs in the Intro airframe just to check systems and I have 4oz of noseweight left for a 190mm CG position.
There is very little weight to move up front with a 44. It does look very small sitting in the model!
John
I think what Alan is saying sounds reasonable. If you put the Jetcat solenoids/ecu/pump/battery as far forward as possible and use a UAT which I think is 10ozs full I think you could get a DRY weight of 14lbs 4oz I think the model should be balanced with a full UAT as this (or a hopper tank as I use) should never be empty.
I have given the 44 a couple of runs in the Intro airframe just to check systems and I have 4oz of noseweight left for a 190mm CG position.
There is very little weight to move up front with a 44. It does look very small sitting in the model!
John
03-14-2005, 11:44 AM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
FIRE HAZARD PRECAUTION
My maiden flight came to a halt on Sunday in that it never got off the ground.
The engine (JF50 Bee), which had survived a major stall in an AMD Hawk some months ago, started up perfectly. However some 10 or 15 secs into its running mode, it sort of coughed and spat out small ball of flame. It returned to normal running in about 1/2 second. I presume it had decided to burn off any congealed oil/fuel left over from last flight's sudden end or possibly I had unintentionally primed the fuel line. Normally on a delta or a mid fuselage tubed engine this would not be important. However in that short time, I cooked the tailplane! - see photo. The Profilm does not like being cooked!
I suggest all ARTF owners give some thought to protection against a wet start. My experience was a tiny little cough. My feeling is that a more serious wet start would have incinerated the tail plane.
Plastering it in aluminum foil would add weight just in the wrong place.
My second initial thought is to adapt a redundant (converging rather diverging) tailpipe into a startup guard. I have cut slots so as to make it clip on for the start up.
Others may have better ideas. (strip and paint with heat resisting paint?)
My maiden flight came to a halt on Sunday in that it never got off the ground.
The engine (JF50 Bee), which had survived a major stall in an AMD Hawk some months ago, started up perfectly. However some 10 or 15 secs into its running mode, it sort of coughed and spat out small ball of flame. It returned to normal running in about 1/2 second. I presume it had decided to burn off any congealed oil/fuel left over from last flight's sudden end or possibly I had unintentionally primed the fuel line. Normally on a delta or a mid fuselage tubed engine this would not be important. However in that short time, I cooked the tailplane! - see photo. The Profilm does not like being cooked!
I suggest all ARTF owners give some thought to protection against a wet start. My experience was a tiny little cough. My feeling is that a more serious wet start would have incinerated the tail plane.
Plastering it in aluminum foil would add weight just in the wrong place.
My second initial thought is to adapt a redundant (converging rather diverging) tailpipe into a startup guard. I have cut slots so as to make it clip on for the start up.
Others may have better ideas. (strip and paint with heat resisting paint?)
03-14-2005, 12:02 PM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
Henry
I think maybe a little aluminium tape on the leading edge would not hurt? I have some quite light stuff which I used to line the back of my hatch.
Send me a SAE and i'll send you some.
John
I think maybe a little aluminium tape on the leading edge would not hurt? I have some quite light stuff which I used to line the back of my hatch.
Send me a SAE and i'll send you some.
John
03-14-2005, 12:11 PM
#169
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
ORIGINAL: john agnew
Henry
I think maybe a little aluminium tape on the leading edge would not hurt? I have some quite light stuff which I used to line the back of my hatch.
Send me a SAE and i'll send you some.
John
Henry
I think maybe a little aluminium tape on the leading edge would not hurt? I have some quite light stuff which I used to line the back of my hatch.
Send me a SAE and i'll send you some.
John
Sorry to hear of your troubles. I have experienced a similar fate with my BTE Reaction 54 (thread elsewhere). I made up a stove pipe duct to help prevent this in the future. I am considering an aluminum flashing clip on shield for the stab during startup. Basically it will go over the leading edge for about 1/3 way and cover the lower stab surface most of the way. Once start has stabilized, then it is simply removed before flight. Seems a much easier solution than lugging a stovepipe around. Maybe some 40-50mm wide aluminum tape would be in order too? HATE to add any weight back there.
Dave Rigotti
03-14-2005, 12:13 PM
#170
RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
ORIGINAL: Turbinac
Dave,
The Intro in the videos on the Boomerang website is a stock kit and carries 4 oz. noseweight. I do use 2400 nicads 5 cells for the RX. so that helps with the CG. The turbine is a Jetcat P60. All up dry weight is 14lbs 4 ounces.
If smaller lighter servos were on the rudders and I had used carbon pushrods then I could have lost the lead up front and easily made it under 14 lbs, I think, but it was the one I opened on Wednesday and flew on Saturday. I must stop being so eager! It's still flying great.
As for the CG, Intro will fly well over a wide range of CG positions but it seems I played too safe in the instructions. I'll check it out and post again next week.
Alan
Dave,
The Intro in the videos on the Boomerang website is a stock kit and carries 4 oz. noseweight. I do use 2400 nicads 5 cells for the RX. so that helps with the CG. The turbine is a Jetcat P60. All up dry weight is 14lbs 4 ounces.
If smaller lighter servos were on the rudders and I had used carbon pushrods then I could have lost the lead up front and easily made it under 14 lbs, I think, but it was the one I opened on Wednesday and flew on Saturday. I must stop being so eager! It's still flying great.
As for the CG, Intro will fly well over a wide range of CG positions but it seems I played too safe in the instructions. I'll check it out and post again next week.
Alan
Thanks for this info. I'm doing all possible to keep weight out of the tail. I'll be quite happy at 14 1/2 pounds. I too have a P60. The CG info is good too!
Dave Rigotti
03-14-2005, 04:49 PM
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RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust
[img][/img] Just received the kit today. When I opened the box I was very impressed with the quality covering job. It is cold here in MI. and not a bubble or sag anywhere. When it warms up it will be tight as a drum.
Will start the build tonight.
Burt
Will start the build tonight.
Burt