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new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

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new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Old 02-01-2008, 12:12 PM
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KC36330
 
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

ORIGINAL: JiGe

Good evening,
Does anyone would be kind enough to give me a foto of the center wing assembly, especialy the front part?. Do you stick the center wing with the fuselage. The instructions are not very clear.
Thanks

line it up perfect, mark the covering, remove it and take the covering off where it contacts the fuze and the center section. add Hysol to the wing saddle and reassemble lining it up perfect then let the Hysol dry. add some glass along the areas where the fuze meets the wing on the inside of the fuze and you're good to go.

it wouldn't' do much good to take pics, you can't see most of that after installation of the fuel tank and turbine.
Old 02-01-2008, 12:33 PM
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hendrix
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Hi.
I will try and get some photos for you.
I had exactly the same question when i bought my Boomerang!
I removed all covering but 1mm from the fuselage's underside where it meets with the wing) and all covering but 1mm
from the main wing area that is inside the fuselage area and used 30 minutes epoxy with microballoons.
I left that 1mm of covering so the covering cannot shrink and leave exposed areas along the outer fuselage-wing intersection.
I also fitted two carbon tubes where the aluminum tubes would go as per the manual and glued the whole front of the main wing section
with the fuselage.
Screwing the back of the main wing section to the fuselage would be a good idea i think but i didn't do it.
Of course after all that i used excess epoxy and filled the area underneath the fuselage formers,near the engine, and the wing completely.
Chris

Old 02-01-2008, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

I will try again tomorrow with sunlight because with room lights the photos are not very good.
Chris

Old 02-01-2008, 03:26 PM
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David JS
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Hi JiGe

I too left a tiny amount of covering on the wing centre section to go under the fuselage sides to give a neat finish. I used a generous amount of 24 hour epoxy to glue the fuselage onto the wing centre section, wiping the excess off once happy. I later added some triangular strip 'gusset' inside whever I could to vastly increase the joining surface area with very little weight penalty. Where this wasn't possible I epoxied some glass fibre strips lengthways along the inside join. Hopefully this will all be sufficient.

My Boomerang weighs in at just under 7 kg dry but ready to fly including all necessary hardware for brakes but as yet without braked wheels fitted.

Cheers

David
Old 02-05-2008, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Hi,

Ive been flying for just under a year now and am already working towards my B certificate, Im only 11 so ill be saving up for a bit before getting one of these. What would you recomend as the best setup for this plane? I was origonally looking at the larger Elan, But was strongly advised by Alan Cardash to go for the Intro instead. Ali Machinchy told me that the P80 (i was origonally looking at the P80 for it) is waaay too much power for this bird, so im looking at the P70, more power than the '60 but i want SPEED!! Has anyone found out the best setup for this plane[:-]? I would stay with the fixed gear at first... then go onto some nice spring-air retracts.

Cheers,

Sheldon
Old 02-05-2008, 03:17 PM
  #2406  
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Sheldon,

Biggest single item to ensure success is to keep it simple, and above all keep it light, the Boomerang will fly really well on a P60, if it is light, with a model like the Boomerang putting a bigger engine in will not really increase the speed due to the airframe having a fairly high drag ratio, however it is a great trainer.

Again keep it light and enjoy.
Old 02-05-2008, 03:28 PM
  #2407  
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Oh my, Sheldon !! What a can of worms you've opened up !! You're going to get a lot of opinions posted here but if you can get Ali to help you out you'll be getting the best help in the planet !!

Ask Ali what he thinks about this opinion:

The intro and it's compatible engines are a LOT cheaper but no less fun. The 70 won't make the into fly much faster than the 60 but it will climb better. Same with the 80 over the 70.

The 80 might be the wisest choice IN THE LONG RUN because it's the same price it will fly the Elan and even the XL later on and you won't need to pay for a second engine when you outgrow the intro. Its drawbacks are that it's more than a pound heavier and it burns more fuel, BUT since you're using fixed gear for now it should weigh about the same in the end and if you temporarily de-tune the 80 down to a more moderate thrust rating you'll save fuel, extend flight times and not have "too much" engine on your intro while you're still learning !!!

I hope this helped, Good luck!
Old 02-05-2008, 04:30 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust


ORIGINAL: sheldonholy

...................but i want SPEED!!
unfortunately the boomer doesn't fall into the speed category. as previously mentioned more power only helps it in the vertical. a P-80 has to much residual thrust and makes landings require more skill from the pilot, extending the chord of the flap and drop it 90* for speed brake helps some but it still comes in faster then the P-60/70 and wears hell out of the tires unless you fly from grass. IMO the best choice would be a P-60 SE or an Artes Super Bee.

Old 02-05-2008, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Wren 54 MkIII. You can even build the engine yourself at the factory during one of the factory open days and save some extra money and learn about your turbine at the same time. The kit is also available to build at home but I would recommend building it at the factory and make use of the free support. If you don't want to build the engine yourself then you can buy one ready built. The Wren customer service is excellent and the 54mkII now gives 15lb thrust and powers the boomerang just fine. I have several engines from the Wren range and use a 54 in my boomerang.

http://wrenturbines.co.uk/
Old 02-05-2008, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

KC, valid points of course.

Remember, though, that tires are cheap (even if flying from pavement) compared to the cost of a new engine when he trades up to the Elan or some other future airframe.
And plenty of folks find the idle thrust of the 80 quite managable on the intro.

Sheldon, check with Ali again and see if he agrees that an 80 (or something else in that thrust class) will save you a LOT of $$ in the long run given the pros and cons, even if it's not the absolutely PERFECT engine for THAT plane. He and Alan are the top 2 Boomer authorities in the world. I imagine they'd rather see an extra $2500 US (hard to come by for a young man, I presume) go toward an Elan, (complete with Jet1-A retracts and other acessories) than toward a second engine.......
Old 02-05-2008, 08:30 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

ORIGINAL: highhorse

KC, valid points of course.

Remember, though, that tires are cheap (even if flying from pavement) compared to the cost of a new engine when he trades up to the Elan or some other future airframe.
And plenty of folks find the idle thrust of the 80 quite managable on the intro.
we'll just have to agree to disagree, a P-80 is about one of the worse engine choices, especially for anyone learning, it has the absolute worst spool times of all turbines. I've seen even experiences pilots screw up due to the lag. with the P-70 or Wren 54 SS after he gets tired of poking around the skies he can upgrade to a Flash, BARF, Tam A4 or F-16, SkyMaster Gripen or F-16 or F-86, FEJ F-16 or Rafale and quiet the number of other airframes and the P-60 and Super Bee fit most of the aforementioned airframes and fly them quiet nicely. honestly i didn't see where he was gonna upgrade from the Baby Boomer to the Elan and then to the XL, get real how many people really do that????

as for as the tires go, the ones on my Baby Boomer are just a bit over 30 bucks a set and i really don't wanna be replacing them every other weekend, YMMV.
Old 02-05-2008, 09:32 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

I built a BB with a P60 for my 15 year old last Spring. The primary intent was to familiarize him with turbines and get him his waiver. Since it flies like a trainer it was no surprise that he passed his waiver test flight at the end of the first day flying the BB. Since it flies like a trainer it was also no surprise that by day 2 he was bored with it. He immediately wanted something more challenging (e.g. faster), in fact he stopped flying it for awhile due to boredom. I have just finished a Bobcat for him with a P80 to get him something faster and more acrobatic. Had we bought a P70 or P80 I would not have had to buy a second turbine just after buying a P60.

I would also strongly advocate for using Jet-1a gear - they are so forgiving that they will make up for the inevitable "11 year old" landing and give him some more airspeed.

Phil


Old 02-05-2008, 10:55 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

KC, which is it? Is the thrust of the 80 so much that he wont be able to land it, or so crummy that the poor kid cant go-around ?

Sheldon, read this thread from page one. PM the guys who have 80's on their inro's. Ask their opinions.

I'm PM-ing you with more info.

Cheers, Don.
Old 02-05-2008, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust


ORIGINAL: highhorse

KC, which is it? Is the thrust of the 80 so much that he wont be able to land it, or so crummy that the poor kid cant go-around ?
do you ever take a brake from your being a smartass???? it seams highly unlikley..........

P-80 has high residual thrust, to high for the Baby Boomer, are you too ignorant to comprehend that??
P-80 has a VERY poor spool up time, again are you oblivious to this as well???



Old 02-06-2008, 01:11 AM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

KC, bro ! Smartass? Ignorant? Oblivious? Is that an appropriate way to air an honest disagreement? [X(]

Duuuude ! I obviously ruffled your feathers and for that I apologize, OK? I didn't mean to and that's why I put the in my post and not a [:@],,[>:], or a[:-].

Here's what I was driving at:

----If the 80 powered has so much residual thrust that it needs gobs of drag to prevent it from floating then there will be a LOT of time for the engine to spool as this floater, well, floats! When the inevitable missed approach is in initiated simply de-crowing (crow being a requirement of a p80 powered intro) will buy plenty of time. When an 80 powered intro isn't in crow it's a jet powered glider even at idle. You implied as much yourself, didn't you? The forgiving and mild trainer characteristics of the intro hardly demand instantanious "burner" to stay out of trouble.

----I don't think this kid's gonna need $30 wheels on his fixed-gear into. He's in the UK, and doesn't even need brakes. If he wants one tho, he can fit a nose brake for $50 bucks.

----And yes, LOTS of folks upgrade from the intro to the Elan or XL. Ask Alan or Patricia. Much of the Boomer business is repeat business. Geez. One very fine gentleman I know has had at LEAST 4 boomers and currently owns both an Elan and an XL, rounding out his stable of jets which includes a BVM KC, one of Tam's custom A-4s, and I believe, a THUD. He loves the Boomers. Sheldon may not want another boomer at all, but should he limit himself to only P60/70 compatible airframes ?

----In a perfect world I would not put an 80 in an intro. The 60 or a Wren 54 would be better. I'm blessed to be able to afford to buy an engine for each new airframe. Many people reading this cannot or, even if they can, are simply too sensible to do so Sheldon is apparently working hard to put his funds in order for his FIRST JET (how cool is that !!) and I doubt he'll stop with the intro. Looking forward to his NEXT JET, wouldn't it be great if he didn't have to cough up another $2500 ?? Some 11 and 12 year-olds think that's a lot of money. (Oops, that's because it IS a lot of money)

---- You hate the 80? I dont own JC stock so it's no skin off my nose. Really. Thanks, in fact for the heads up. I will think twice before buying one should the need arise. What else in that thrust class do you recommend?

I'm just trying very very hard to give Shledon enough information to make a good long-term decision. You made, in your post, what I thought to be an irrational argument against an 80. Apologies again if I offended. It was not intentional.

On the other hand, if in the future you 1) feel offended AND 2) feel the need to open fire in such a full-bore and obvious manner, please take it to the PMs? I can take whatever you've got and don't mind apologizing when I've been misunderstood, but your obvious tirade is quite inappropriate for the threads. Fair enough?
Old 02-06-2008, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

HAHA! No, i wasnt offended in any way, shape or form and thanks for all the help! Although there is one thing that is a bit demeaning bor buying a baby boomerang - a guy at my club had one, got radio interfearence and the inevitable happened: it crashed ten feet away from him and the tank ended up about 100 metres away on the other end of the strip!
Ill be thinking hard about this one, although one jet would be enough for me, i wouldnt go onto another jet.

Cheers, Sheldon
Old 02-06-2008, 01:00 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Actually "On the other hand, if in the future you 1) feel offended AND 2) feel the need to open fire in such a full-bore and obvious manner, please take it to the PMs? I can take whatever you've got and don't mind apologizing when I've been misunderstood, but your obvious tirade is quite inappropriate for the threads. Fair enough? " Thats exactly the same with me!
Old 02-06-2008, 01:11 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

[:@] I dont mean to boast, but i have many a time been praised for my landings...
Old 02-06-2008, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust


ORIGINAL: sheldonholy

[:@] I dont mean to boast, but i have many a time been praised for my landings...
LOL !! Way to hold your ground kiddo! It aint braggin' when it's true !
Old 02-07-2008, 03:35 AM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Hi.
I fly the Boomerang with a KJ66 (p80) and 21lb of thrust so here is my opinion.
If you can make good landings with fast planes and be able to control the plane's approach very well
using both the engine and the speed brakes /flaps and you can be calm and focused while flying then go for the P80, it will save you money in the process.
It can be used on larger than the intro models but the P60SE can also be used in other much faster than intro jets.
It depends on want you want to advance to, in faster jets of the same size (14 lbs ) or to bigger sized jets.
Landing fast electric planes is not the same thing because the P80 has enough residual thrust to make the landings difficult.
To my mind being 11 years old means that you don't have accumulated enough experience yet nor you have the ability to take the damage cost
on your own (unless of course your dad is rich ) so go for the easier turbines like the P60SE which respond much faster than the P80.
You might be a much better pilot than me even at 11 and i can accept that but experience is not the same thing and it takes time.
With the P80 you have to plan every move so you can apply power the right time but then of course not everything can be planed so in a
bad moment the P80 will respond a little bit slow and you might not be able to save the plane.
I can't even imagine what will happen if the P80 is used in a fast, small wing area and not that stable air frame
when you get in to trouble and need power fast....
Each flight i do is preplanned to the finest detail so i really don't do any free flying and that's why my plane is still intact.
I had in the past many edf jets that had at least the same or better speed than the boomerang so the Boomerang was easy for me
to fly but the P80 made things a little more difficult with it's slow acceleration and the high residual thrust.
In any case the Boomerang intro is not the fastest jet, far from that but it will save you money by forgiving your piloting errors.
If you buy a fast jet as your first jet and crash it then you will probably will not have the money to start again not to mention the psychological
induced fear you might acquire after such an expensive crash.

In other words:
1) Boomerang intro is the best trainer i have seen or heard.
2) P80 will save money and can be used in many larger planes than the intro.
3) P80 is not that good as a trainer turbine.
4) P80 needs a more experienced pilot.

Chris
Old 02-07-2008, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Hi,

I have a sixed landing gear with the supplied wheels for the baby boomerang. The wheels got worn now, what replacement wheels shall I use for the supplied fixed landing gear? specs and brand? Thanks.

Old 02-07-2008, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Hendrix, are you using Crow????
Old 02-07-2008, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

Yes i do use Crow and it works much better than the flap 90' down alone.
Now i can land without using Crow if i like because i know how to slow the plane
and i know exactly what the stall speed is.
Why you ask?
Chris
Old 02-07-2008, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

I'm wondering about the effect on the glide/missed approach if you kill the crow. Mine is rigged so that crow only activates in last half of flap deployment, and crow is killed with more than 2/3 throttle. So there is an immediate gain in lift and reduction in drag once throttle is advanced, even before the engine spools.
Old 02-07-2008, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: new Arf Boomerang 14lb thrust

If the elevator is returned to the non Crow condition you will see no ill effects.
I have killed Crow during missed approach, due to high speed in the early days, a couple times with no problem.
I use a switch for activating Crow, lowering flap to full down and add down elevator.
When i kill Crow everything returns to normal but the plane does not change attitude at all.
Chris

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