Reaction 54 Jet Kit
02-13-2005, 08:36 PM
#251
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
ORIGINAL: Nick Yuhasz
Dave:
At jet rallies, it is generally frowned upon to run up your turbine in the pits / start up area for safety reasons. Also, last year there was some emphasis on blowing debris from full throttle run-ups causing debris to get sucked back into intakes after circling around from the blast protectors in the start-up areas.
Most modern turbine ECU's do not need a full throttle run-up on the ground .....
Nick
ORIGINAL: rcguy!
Do you throttle up to check things out before flying like on a piston powered plane? Anybody else have any input on this?
Dave Rigotti
Do you throttle up to check things out before flying like on a piston powered plane? Anybody else have any input on this?
Dave Rigotti
At jet rallies, it is generally frowned upon to run up your turbine in the pits / start up area for safety reasons. Also, last year there was some emphasis on blowing debris from full throttle run-ups causing debris to get sucked back into intakes after circling around from the blast protectors in the start-up areas.
Most modern turbine ECU's do not need a full throttle run-up on the ground .....
Nick
Thanks for the feedback. I've added aluminum tape over the melted areas. I'll keep the WOT running for the sky. My son was really itching to see it run! No blame on him mind you.
Was hoping to hear from Jim this past week. The weather looks real crappy next weekend. Maybe a trip to North Carolina may be in order! Thanks for your help!
Dave Rigotti
02-13-2005, 09:42 PM
#252
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
I seem to remember that Bruce recommended a "Startup Shield" to stop hot starts from damaging the airframe. Mine is a piece if 4" gal pipe on three legs. Works for me.
I think that even on a no flam start the heat will rise up with no airspeed.
Regards
I think that even on a no flam start the heat will rise up with no airspeed.
Regards
02-13-2005, 09:49 PM
#253
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
Seeing what has been happening to Dave's jet makes me wonder if this is going to be a common thing?
Hey Bruce, do you have any input? Probably will do the same as Tommy on my bird. Spent too much time covering this bird to have it melt on me. I'm sure it's not a problem with the ship moving and getting that cooling air over the surfaces.
Cheers,
Hey Bruce, do you have any input? Probably will do the same as Tommy on my bird. Spent too much time covering this bird to have it melt on me. I'm sure it's not a problem with the ship moving and getting that cooling air over the surfaces.
Cheers,
02-13-2005, 09:51 PM
#254
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
ORIGINAL: TommyWatson
I seem to remember that Bruce recommended a "Startup Shield" to stop hot starts from damaging the airframe. Mine is a piece if 4" gal pipe on three legs. Works for me.
I think that even on a no flam start the heat will rise up with no airspeed.
Regards
I seem to remember that Bruce recommended a "Startup Shield" to stop hot starts from damaging the airframe. Mine is a piece if 4" gal pipe on three legs. Works for me.
I think that even on a no flam start the heat will rise up with no airspeed.
Regards
Dave Rigotti
02-14-2005, 08:04 AM
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
I was thinking of the same thing and went looking for some yesterday. But all I could find was the 2" wide stuff. Would be nice if there was some 4" wide available. Least I did not find any around my area.
Cheers.
Cheers.
02-14-2005, 08:48 AM
#257
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
Regarding melted monokote, I noticed in one of the videos of Bruce flying that he had a metal shield/box under the tail feathers during startup.
Also, is there a particular problem with the recommended electric nose wheel brake that is motivating the use of air systems for the Reaction?
Also, is there a particular problem with the recommended electric nose wheel brake that is motivating the use of air systems for the Reaction?
02-14-2005, 12:07 PM
#258
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
Dave, the singed Monokote must be happening during startup. It sounds like you haven't been using any type of heat shield. My guess is that even though it's starting without flame, the slow-moving heat during ignition is probably doing the damage. I have routinely used my "hot box" (steel tunnel) for startups, then moved the model away from the box to do full-throttle runups before every flight. I've also done ground runs, out of the hot box, at WOT for several minutes with no burning of the Monokote. I did sheet the full length of the tail boom with stainless on my model, but that was before these ground tests, and before the thrust angle was set. Simply feeling the bottom of the tail boom and finding it cool to the touch made me decide to eliminate the weight of the extra stainless for the kit version.
Because of the finicky nature of my Ram 500 startups, I've never tried starting without the hot box. There was a time when I thought maybe you could do without, but now I think startups with some sort of heat shield should be mandatory.
Bruce
----------
BTE www.btemodels.com
Because of the finicky nature of my Ram 500 startups, I've never tried starting without the hot box. There was a time when I thought maybe you could do without, but now I think startups with some sort of heat shield should be mandatory.
Bruce
----------
BTE www.btemodels.com
02-14-2005, 12:48 PM
#259
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
Thank you Bruce...
This really clears some stuff up. I'm heading to Lowe's to get the materials for a start up heat shield [sm=biggrin.gif]
Cheers,
This really clears some stuff up. I'm heading to Lowe's to get the materials for a start up heat shield [sm=biggrin.gif]
Cheers,
02-14-2005, 12:49 PM
#260
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
ORIGINAL: BruceTharpe
Dave, the singed Monokote must be happening during startup. It sounds like you haven't been using any type of heat shield. My guess is that even though it's starting without flame, the slow-moving heat during ignition is probably doing the damage. I have routinely used my "hot box" (steel tunnel) for startups, then moved the model away from the box to do full-throttle runups before every flight. I've also done ground runs, out of the hot box, at WOT for several minutes with no burning of the Monokote. I did sheet the full length of the tail boom with stainless on my model, but that was before these ground tests, and before the thrust angle was set. Simply feeling the bottom of the tail boom and finding it cool to the touch made me decide to eliminate the weight of the extra stainless for the kit version.
Because of the finicky nature of my Ram 500 startups, I've never tried starting without the hot box. There was a time when I thought maybe you could do without, but now I think startups with some sort of heat shield should be mandatory.
Bruce
----------
BTE www.btemodels.com
Dave, the singed Monokote must be happening during startup. It sounds like you haven't been using any type of heat shield. My guess is that even though it's starting without flame, the slow-moving heat during ignition is probably doing the damage. I have routinely used my "hot box" (steel tunnel) for startups, then moved the model away from the box to do full-throttle runups before every flight. I've also done ground runs, out of the hot box, at WOT for several minutes with no burning of the Monokote. I did sheet the full length of the tail boom with stainless on my model, but that was before these ground tests, and before the thrust angle was set. Simply feeling the bottom of the tail boom and finding it cool to the touch made me decide to eliminate the weight of the extra stainless for the kit version.
Because of the finicky nature of my Ram 500 startups, I've never tried starting without the hot box. There was a time when I thought maybe you could do without, but now I think startups with some sort of heat shield should be mandatory.
Bruce
----------
BTE www.btemodels.com
Is this pipe thinwall? Is it mounted to a heavy base? Does it get hot after a minute or two requiring a handle? Will an 8" diameter pipe be ok? 6"? 10"?
On another topic, MY R54 will not stop from a taxi with the Kavan brake. I even tried 12 volts. It does energize and puts a small amount of drag on the wheel. I know this is a tough question...how hard should the wheel turn with the brake energized? I'm thinking its OK when flying from grass with a normal approach, but with that occasional long approach, I'm thinking the braking action may not be eonough. Of course on pavement at a jet rally ..I'm concerned. Maybe I've overlooked something or I have a "weak" unit? I'm sure I cannot perform a stop as in the R54 flying video. Maybe the JetcatUSA P60 has higher idle thrust than the PST-600R you're using?
02-14-2005, 01:26 PM
#261
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
I made a tunnel from three slabs of sheet steel, joined at the corners with angle iron. Weight of the hot box is 15, maybe 20 pounds. I've felt it after starts, and it's definitely warm. I thought about using a stove pipe, but it would either need legs or somebody holding it during startup. In the end, I thought the heavier tunnel was the best way to go because it could just sit there with no concern about being blown away. If you use a pipe, I suggest using as large a diameter as practical, and make it heavy enough that it can just sit there during startup.
With the Kavan brake activated, it should take quite a bit of force to turn. Not all your strength, but not fingertip pressure either. That's as much as I can quantify it. I actually added a dab of grease to the friction plate to help it turn easier. Maybe the idle thrust of the P-60 is higher - My model actually rolls to a stop fairly quickly on pavement without braking.
Bruce
With the Kavan brake activated, it should take quite a bit of force to turn. Not all your strength, but not fingertip pressure either. That's as much as I can quantify it. I actually added a dab of grease to the friction plate to help it turn easier. Maybe the idle thrust of the P-60 is higher - My model actually rolls to a stop fairly quickly on pavement without braking.
Bruce
02-14-2005, 10:19 PM
#262
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
[quote]ORIGINAL: BruceTharpe
I made a tunnel from three slabs of sheet steel, joined at the corners with angle iron. Weight of the hot box is 15, maybe 20 pounds. I've felt it after starts, and it's definitely warm. I thought about using a stove pipe, but it would either need legs or somebody holding it during startup. In the end, I thought the heavier tunnel was the best way to go because it could just sit there with no concern about being blown away. If you use a pipe, I suggest using as large a diameter as practical, and make it heavy enough that it can just sit there during startup.
<snip>
= == =
Bruce, and all:
I have flown *another* designers airplane with the similar engine configuration using a 6" dryer duct....single walled...on a 2X4 base for over 100 flights (and a compadre's for 10 more) with out a problem of heating the bottom, or blowing it down the runway.
(Common sense does need apply re: wet starts). Weight is less than a pond. Does it get hot? You bet! so just don't touch the metal as you move it away from the airplane to taxi. My unsolicited 2 cents is *KISS* does apply.
Greg
I made a tunnel from three slabs of sheet steel, joined at the corners with angle iron. Weight of the hot box is 15, maybe 20 pounds. I've felt it after starts, and it's definitely warm. I thought about using a stove pipe, but it would either need legs or somebody holding it during startup. In the end, I thought the heavier tunnel was the best way to go because it could just sit there with no concern about being blown away. If you use a pipe, I suggest using as large a diameter as practical, and make it heavy enough that it can just sit there during startup.
<snip>
= == =
Bruce, and all:
I have flown *another* designers airplane with the similar engine configuration using a 6" dryer duct....single walled...on a 2X4 base for over 100 flights (and a compadre's for 10 more) with out a problem of heating the bottom, or blowing it down the runway.
(Common sense does need apply re: wet starts). Weight is less than a pond. Does it get hot? You bet! so just don't touch the metal as you move it away from the airplane to taxi. My unsolicited 2 cents is *KISS* does apply.
Greg
02-15-2005, 12:28 AM
#263
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
Guys,
Here is my start tube. I made it for another model. I will probably have to shorten the legs to fit the Reaction. It is Galvsanised Downpipe, with alluminium tube legs pop riveted to the sides.
You can see in the background that I have not done much to the R54. Work will slow down soon and I will get back into it.
Regards
Here is my start tube. I made it for another model. I will probably have to shorten the legs to fit the Reaction. It is Galvsanised Downpipe, with alluminium tube legs pop riveted to the sides.
You can see in the background that I have not done much to the R54. Work will slow down soon and I will get back into it.
Regards
02-17-2005, 07:56 PM
#264
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
ORIGINAL: BruceTharpe
I made a tunnel from three slabs of sheet steel, joined at the corners with angle iron. Weight of the hot box is 15, maybe 20 pounds. I've felt it after starts, and it's definitely warm. I thought about using a stove pipe, but it would either need legs or somebody holding it during startup. In the end, I thought the heavier tunnel was the best way to go because it could just sit there with no concern about being blown away. If you use a pipe, I suggest using as large a diameter as practical, and make it heavy enough that it can just sit there during startup.
With the Kavan brake activated, it should take quite a bit of force to turn. Not all your strength, but not fingertip pressure either. That's as much as I can quantify it. I actually added a dab of grease to the friction plate to help it turn easier. Maybe the idle thrust of the P-60 is higher - My model actually rolls to a stop fairly quickly on pavement without braking.
Bruce
I made a tunnel from three slabs of sheet steel, joined at the corners with angle iron. Weight of the hot box is 15, maybe 20 pounds. I've felt it after starts, and it's definitely warm. I thought about using a stove pipe, but it would either need legs or somebody holding it during startup. In the end, I thought the heavier tunnel was the best way to go because it could just sit there with no concern about being blown away. If you use a pipe, I suggest using as large a diameter as practical, and make it heavy enough that it can just sit there during startup.
With the Kavan brake activated, it should take quite a bit of force to turn. Not all your strength, but not fingertip pressure either. That's as much as I can quantify it. I actually added a dab of grease to the friction plate to help it turn easier. Maybe the idle thrust of the P-60 is higher - My model actually rolls to a stop fairly quickly on pavement without braking.
Bruce
An update on the Kavan brake. I've run some "breakaway" torque tests and sent the results to Bruce. It seems his Kavan brake at 8 volts is holding about 5 times better than mine at 12.3VDC. The actual figures are irrelevant. Bruce is sending another unit for me to try. Stay Tuned...It looks promising!
Bruce is tops with customer service!
I'll fabricate a blast tube this weekend. BTW... I purchased AeroShell 500 turbine oil at $7.89 per qt from the oul-store.com Fast and cheap shipping!
Dave Rigotti
02-17-2005, 08:43 PM
#265
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
I got my R54 yesterday from Bruce
. I hope the brake works because I got it too, after considering cancelling that part of the order.
I am fighting the temptation to start unpacking the kit as there is no way I could get all that stuff back in the box. I have to finish another project before starting this one and if the parts get mixed together on my crowded bench well....it wouldn't be pretty!
. I hope the brake works because I got it too, after considering cancelling that part of the order.I am fighting the temptation to start unpacking the kit as there is no way I could get all that stuff back in the box. I have to finish another project before starting this one and if the parts get mixed together on my crowded bench well....it wouldn't be pretty!
02-17-2005, 08:55 PM
#266
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
ORIGINAL: rcguy!
Folks,
An update on the Kavan brake. I've run some "breakaway" torque tests and sent the results to Bruce. It seems his Kavan brake at 8 volts is holding about 5 times better than mine at 12.3VDC. The actual figures are irrelevant. Bruce is sending another unit for me to try. Stay Tuned...It looks promising!
Bruce is tops with customer service!
I'll fabricate a blast tube this weekend. BTW... I purchased AeroShell 500 turbine oil at $7.89 per qt from the oul-store.com Fast and cheap shipping!
Dave Rigotti
Folks,
An update on the Kavan brake. I've run some "breakaway" torque tests and sent the results to Bruce. It seems his Kavan brake at 8 volts is holding about 5 times better than mine at 12.3VDC. The actual figures are irrelevant. Bruce is sending another unit for me to try. Stay Tuned...It looks promising!
Bruce is tops with customer service!
I'll fabricate a blast tube this weekend. BTW... I purchased AeroShell 500 turbine oil at $7.89 per qt from the oul-store.com Fast and cheap shipping!
Dave Rigotti
Checked the price and they are great. I was paying $11 from the local airport FBO...
Cheers,
02-17-2005, 09:19 PM
#267
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
ORIGINAL: causeitflies-RCU
I got my R54 yesterday from Bruce. I hope the brake works because I got it too, after considering cancelling that part of the order.
I am fighting the temptation to start unpacking the kit as there is no way I could get all that stuff back in the box. I have to finish another project before starting this one and if the parts get mixed together on my crowded bench well....it wouldn't be pretty!
I got my R54 yesterday from Bruce
. I hope the brake works because I got it too, after considering cancelling that part of the order.I am fighting the temptation to start unpacking the kit as there is no way I could get all that stuff back in the box. I have to finish another project before starting this one and if the parts get mixed together on my crowded bench well....it wouldn't be pretty!
Dave Rigotti
02-17-2005, 09:22 PM
#268
RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
You're right TIM...
Fat Fingered it! www.oil-store.com. Fast and cheap shipping. 8 qts came to $70.75 total to my door ($8.84 ea). I spent $5 and an hour and a half trying the local FBO without success.
Dave Rigotti
Fat Fingered it! www.oil-store.com. Fast and cheap shipping. 8 qts came to $70.75 total to my door ($8.84 ea). I spent $5 and an hour and a half trying the local FBO without success.
Dave Rigotti
02-17-2005, 09:30 PM
#269
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
Just teasing you Dave I have fat fingers too
But least they don't keep me from doing what I love to do....Build and fly airplanes...
Thanks for the info...Much appreciated...
Cheers,
I have fat fingers too But least they don't keep me from doing what I love to do....Build and fly airplanes...
Thanks for the info...Much appreciated...
Cheers,
02-20-2005, 10:13 PM
#271
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
Hi Guy's,
Getting really close to getting my R54 done. Spent the day doing the detail work for mounting my air systems. I had to do some thinking on how to get all the hardware in since I'm also using a set of pneumatic brakes which requires an addition air tank and valve. Figuring that there was a lot of free space up in the front hatch area that it would be pretty simple to make a couple of trays and mount everything to them. Planning to install my propane tank in the blank area of the rear tray on the left hand side. All ready have a shelf installed below the tray. Just need to cut the hole but didn't have the right bit to do it yet. A couple of guys asked how I was going to do it so here's some pictures.
Still have about another days worth of work left to get this bird done and it feels great!!!
Cheers,
Getting really close to getting my R54 done. Spent the day doing the detail work for mounting my air systems. I had to do some thinking on how to get all the hardware in since I'm also using a set of pneumatic brakes which requires an addition air tank and valve. Figuring that there was a lot of free space up in the front hatch area that it would be pretty simple to make a couple of trays and mount everything to them. Planning to install my propane tank in the blank area of the rear tray on the left hand side. All ready have a shelf installed below the tray. Just need to cut the hole but didn't have the right bit to do it yet. A couple of guys asked how I was going to do it so here's some pictures.
Still have about another days worth of work left to get this bird done and it feels great!!!
Cheers,
02-23-2005, 08:08 PM
#275
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RE: Reaction 54 Jet Kit
ORIGINAL: rcguy!
Looking Great! Nice colors and all. I have FOD screen envy!
Dave Rigotti
Looking Great! Nice colors and all. I have FOD screen envy!
Dave Rigotti
Thanks Dave, Much appreciated after all that work. I got my FOD screen from Todd at Dreamworks R/C. Cost $20. Really nice folks to deal with.
Will post pic's of my brakes in a few days. Too busy taking care of all the last minute details before a mall show this weekend.
Cheers,
