Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

Best affordable jet trainer?

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Best affordable jet trainer?

Old 12-24-2001, 03:13 AM
  #1  
desmobob
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Whitehall, NY
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

I am interested in eventually building a turbine model. For now, I was considering a Combat Models F-16N/YS .45 as a "trainer." This combo seems like a more affordable alternative to a ducted fan model.

What do you think?


Happy Holidays!
Old 12-24-2001, 08:36 PM
  #2  
1Eye
My Feedback: (2)
 
1Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mesquite, Nevada
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Hi, Bob. I see several have read your post but none so far offering a reply or any advice. I'm new to this forum and not so new to jets - my foray into RC jets started back in '91.
This business of defining a "trainer" is often in the eyes of the interpreter. Is it a flight training on higher performance models or just getting used to the added gizmos of flying some of the more complicated jets. Are we talking about "training" from a building perspective or ... You get the drift.
The topic of jet trainers is often a hotly debated topic. I think the wisest choice is a model that exposes you to both the complexities of the jets (added control functions to mess with and the discipline of typically procedure-driven landings/takeoffs) and the finer points of construction. The expense part will be decided by how much you want to risk [;} My experience so far has led me down each end of the spectrum - pricey versus cheap - and I think a middle ground is best from a "training" perspective. Wrt prices versus cheap, I want to emphasize you usually get exactly what you pay for.
What you propose as a trainer solution would not be my first choice. One of the better middle ground solutions has to be a TopGun Ultra Eagle - OS91/Dynamax powered with retracts - you'll find them at . The instructions aren't the most comprehensive but if you have a few kits under your belt you'll manage. They are quick building; this will get you maximum exposure to the flying part, together with the complexities of an RC jet not normally experience with a sport plane.
Maybe this post will stimulate some more discussion/input.

Mike
Old 12-25-2001, 04:38 AM
  #3  
lov2flyrc
My Feedback: (24)
 
lov2flyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 6,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Hey Bob,

I agree with Mike on this one, all his points are valid ones and this topic always draws debate. I will also agree that Top Gun builds a superb jet with trainer capabilities in mind. Any version of their F-15 are sure to please and performance is great with excellent low speed qualities. I personally have a byron version of theirs that I keep around as a warm up plane for my turbines. Fast to build and a blast to fly but does not have all the bells and whistles that most scale jets carry (i.e.: flaps, speed brakes etc...). Take a look at the first post in the Show and Tell thread for a picture of the TGA f-15. Happy to answer any questions you may have regarding this plane....
One other choice that you might want to consider is a Yellow Aircraft Starfire, also an excellent plane but a little more demanding in the air and on landings...

Todd
Old 12-25-2001, 06:11 AM
  #4  
rcdfnut
 
rcdfnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brooklyn, NY,
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Originally posted by lov2flyrc
Hey Bob,

I agree with Mike on this one, all his points are valid ones and this topic always draws debate. I will also agree that Top Gun builds a superb jet with trainer capabilities in mind. Any version of their F-15 are sure to please and performance is great with excellent low speed qualities. I personally have a byron version of theirs that I keep around as a warm up plane for my turbines. Fast to build and a blast to fly but does not have all the bells and whistles that most scale jets carry (i.e.: flaps, speed brakes etc...). Take a look at the first post in the Show and Tell thread for a picture of the TGA f-15. Happy to answer any questions you may have regarding this plane....
One other choice that you might want to consider is a Yellow Aircraft Starfire, also an excellent plane but a little more demanding in the air and on landings...

Todd
That's true I agree everyone loves the Y/A starfire yet as a first aircraft "I"got the Y/A a4 which is verrrrrrrrrry demanding alot of plane in a small package. Before I got it I was told not a good first plane but personally I love punishment ( so I got it) when it comes to planes with a not so nice rep. I got the one with the big wing so as to feel it out. Flies nice, handling is very nimble easy on the thumb and index and comes in very fast. As soon as you square the final you have to point the nose to God and play with the power and you will be fine. Had Three flight on it before I blew the Pipe aft section, still waiting on the replacement, as soon as it gets here will be back in the air. But all in all I like my choice of birds. To wrap this up, it is up to you, see what you like and know ( and I emphasize "know") what you can handle and have a ball.
Old 12-28-2001, 02:28 PM
  #5  
mss28
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

What do you guys mean by added controls? I'm sorry but I 'm also new to Jet RC's. I use to fly props years ago, but if I get back into this, I want to do the jets.

Can you elaborate? Also, what was your first experience with building and flying one. I'm also looking a the F15 you guys are sugessting

Thanks

Marty
Old 12-28-2001, 04:55 PM
  #6  
lov2flyrc
My Feedback: (24)
 
lov2flyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 6,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Added Controls....

What do you guys mean by added controls?
Marty,

When dealing with jets, there are ALOT more controls (channels) to deal with. Depending on the jet and how it is powered will define the extras you will have to deal with. ie: flaps, retracts, speed brake, wheel brakes, inflight mixture (on ducted fan), dual rates etc....
As well as monitoring your flight time so you don't run out of fuel. All this plus handling a high speed, high wing loading airplane. It is alot to concentrate on at once and starting with a plane that has the least amount to deal with is the best way to start. The TG F-15 will do just fine with just 6 channels. Your typical four (although rudder not needed on this plane) plus retracts and inflight mixture. No need for brakes, flaps, etc...on this jet. As you get more complicated an aircraft, your skills must be able to cope with the extra functions. The less complicated the better to start. as you get proficient in your flying and have mastered landings with a high performance aircraft you can step up to more complicated planes.
The major advantage of the TG F-15 is it is designed simple and will fly very slow compared to most jets. The Byron (byron fan) version of this plane is the easiest to build and maintain as the entire engine is accessible from the hatch with NO ducting what-so-ever. The dynamax version will be slightly faster but has complete ducting and makes it more difficult to build, access the engine and clean. The advantage of the dynamax version is, there are alot more planes designed around this fan unit so you will have more options down the road when you decide to move up in airframe without having to purchase another fan.
Hope this helps....
Todd
Old 12-28-2001, 06:35 PM
  #7  
Jackjet
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Jackjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default A-4 Skyhawk

Originally posted by rcdfnut


That's true I agree everyone loves the Y/A starfire yet as a first aircraft "I"got the Y/A a4 which is verrrrrrrrrry demanding alot of plane in a small package. Before I got it I was told not a good first plane but personally I love punishment ( so I got it) when it comes to planes with a not so nice rep. I got the one with the big wing so as to feel it out. Flies nice, handling is very nimble easy on the thumb and index and comes in very fast. As soon as you square the final you have to point the nose to God and play with the power and you will be fine. Had Three flight on it before I blew the Pipe aft section, still waiting on the replacement, as soon as it gets here will be back in the air. But all in all I like my choice of birds. To wrap this up, it is up to you, see what you like and know ( and I emphasize "know") what you can handle and have a ball.
I have flown the A-4 with the scale wing with a OS.91 and Dynamax fan-12 lbs with flaps and retracts, 30ozs. of fuel-it is superfast-170+ and it rolls REALLY fast with a radar gun- it lands at 45 mph with 40 deg. flaps - it's a fun jet - if someone wanted to build one and install a small turbine in one (like 12lbs thrust)-it would probably gain 5 lbs- extra fuel,etc.-but the top speed would go up to over 230 mph-and the landing speed at 5 lbs-would be around 55 mph with 40deg flaps.-but over all it would fly good-you just have to fly it by the numbers-just like the full size one is flown.


Jackjet
Old 12-28-2001, 11:13 PM
  #8  
mss28
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Todd



Would you mine explaining what the inflight mixtures are? I have no idea wha that is. Also, how do the speed brakes work?

Thanks Again

MArty
Old 12-29-2001, 02:28 AM
  #9  
lov2flyrc
My Feedback: (24)
 
lov2flyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 6,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Hey Marty,

Ok....Inflight mixture: Most ducted fan engines come with a separate remotely mounted needle that can be controlled by a servo. The advantage of inflight mixture is you can lean your engine out for maximum power at take-off and once airborne richen the engine up to get a bit more lubrication. The ducted fan engines turn somewhere in the 24,000 rpm range, that's a lot of stress on the motor! Since most ducted fans need all the power you can drum up for take-off and climb-out you want to lean the engine to max power but once you have the plane on step you can then back off the mixture, reducing a little power but getting more lubrication to the engine.
Speed Brake: I have attached a picture of my kangaroo with the speed brake half deployed. Here is an easy description of the speedbrake function, I will relate this to turbine aircraft since you really need them more on turbines than D/F. Turbines have what is called turbo/throttle lag, meaning that there is a delay in response time from when you push your throttle from idle to full throttle or any where in between. This delay can be as much as 8 seconds to go from an idle to full power, now to go from half throttle to full power takes considerably less time. The purpose of the speed brake is it allows you to use power on your landing approach but keeping the approach speed as if you were not applying the power. Reason for this is if you had to do an abort on the landing when you apply full power the delay will be minimal from say half throttle as opposed to idle. Catch here is that if you abort the landing you must retract the brake or your acceleration back to flying speed will be affected. As you can see, there is a lot going on when your flying jets. Takes a good deal of concentration to keep up with all the functions.
I remember one incident I had when I first started flying turbines. I made a landing that was a bit on the fast side, was running out of runway quickly and reached for the rudder dual rate to turn my steering back to high to avoid an obstacle at the end of the runway (I always take-off on low rate for steering) I hit the wrong switch in my panic and retracted the gear.....Not pretty but damage was minimal. Point is, you must be able to react quickly to any situation, the more gizmos you throw into the mix the more you can get confused. Be proficient with a high speed aircraft to the point that you don't need to think to fly then you are ready for the added complexities.
Hope this helped, I think I confused myself
Let me know if you have any further questions. Feel free to e-mail me for my phone # if you want to discuss things in further detail.

Regards,
Todd
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	409_211.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	56.0 KB
ID:	1042  
Old 12-29-2001, 03:47 AM
  #10  
RBardin
My Feedback: (27)
 
RBardin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 464
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best Affordable Jet Trainer ?

Bob,
I am new to Jets, and I am building my first ducted fan from a new short kit called the Rebel X. Affordability was a key factor in my decision to build this one - It is a .46-sized sport jet that is all built-up balsa and ply with sheeted foam flying surfaces. I have a couple friends who are flying these jets right now (as well as others), and they are very pleased with them. Since your original thread was titled "Best affordable jet trainer", I thought you might want to consider it for the following reasons:

1) It will cost you about the same money to be nearly ready to fly as a .91 sized fiberglass kit costs alone.

2) This jet can be flown with standard servos (although I will be using good ones on elevator and ailerons by preference, not necessity) and it uses standard sized spring-air retracts. I was able to get a nearly-new power package for mine for ~$300.00 online.

3) It has been engineered for ease of assembly and excellent flying characteristics with a fully ducted airflow system for great performance. It can be built with flaps or without - with gear doors or without, heck you don't have to run retracts, if you are really on a budget. It will rotate off grass and since it is built from wood, if you have a rough landing (or worse) you will be able to easily repair it. Although it can be glassed and painted, it will be cheaper, easier and lighter to just cover it.

If you have not already seen pictures of it, you can check it out here:
http://www.geocities.com/nunya61/RebelX.htm

I would love to have a slick, turbine-powered jet someday too, but I figure its best to walk before trying to run. I'll save some coin now and spend it later when my skills are better honed toward flying and landing high-performance model aircraft. ...and when I have saved enough to buy one ...and when I'm relatively sure buying one won't provoke alimony payments

Good Luck with whatever you decide to try!

Rusty Bardin
Old 12-30-2001, 09:40 PM
  #11  
1Eye
My Feedback: (2)
 
1Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mesquite, Nevada
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Rusty Bardin wrote ..
I would love to have a slick, turbine-powered jet someday too, but I figure its best to walk before trying to run. I'll save some coin now and spend it later when my skills are better honed toward flying and landing high-performance model aircraft. ...and when I have saved enough to buy one ...and when I'm relatively sure buying one won't provoke alimony payments

>>>

A wise man you are, Rusty ... especially the part on avoiding the alimony [;}

Mike
Old 12-31-2001, 02:28 AM
  #12  
mss28
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default ENgine Specs

Guys,

If I decide to buy the TGC F-15 jet kit as my first, is there a special engine I need to buy for the ducted fan. Example: can the OS .91 on a regular prop aiplane be used as a D/F enging or is this a totally seperate motor. Alos, I'm asking this question for all engines as well.

Thanks Again

Marty
Old 12-31-2001, 02:49 AM
  #13  
desmobob
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Whitehall, NY
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Best Affordable Jet Trainer ?

Originally posted by RBardin
Bob,
I am new to Jets, and I am building my first ducted fan from a new short kit called the Rebel X. <SNIP>
Rusty,

That looks like another interesting alternative! Thanks very much for the tip, and good luck with your REbel X. I'll be looking into it, for sure.
Old 12-31-2001, 03:46 AM
  #14  
1Eye
My Feedback: (2)
 
1Eye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mesquite, Nevada
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Marty wrote ...
If I decide to buy the TGC F-15 jet kit as my first, is there a special engine I need to buy for the ducted fan.
>>>>

D/F engines are purpose-designed engines. If you're considering the TG Eagle then you need to get an OS91VR-DF. And, depending on whether you build the pusher (ByroBlaster) version, you'll need the version with the big (slig) head. Other than your local hobby shop and Tower Hobbies, there *are* places on the Web where you can get this engine at a decent price. TG may even give you a package deal ... check it out.


Mike
Old 12-31-2001, 03:57 AM
  #15  
mss28
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

What is a pusher? I hate to ask dumb questions but I am new to this. ALso is the )S91VR-DF an actual part number? I would hate to purchase a 400.00 jet kit then find out I need another 400 for a special DF motor.

I want to find the motor w fan used preferably OS and the radio used.

What do you think?

Thanks Again

MArty
Old 12-31-2001, 05:06 AM
  #16  
Madman
Senior Member
 
Madman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: North of Toronto Canada
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default How about the Skyburner?

I am at the point of getting into D/F now. I have decided to build a Skyburner. While working up the info and doing a lot of question asking I have found another guy who wants one, for his old Dynamax/Rossi 65 combo. So now I am building two (with lots of help with parts) and would be willing to put together a third if this interests you at all. I am in the Toronto area so if this is convenient drop me a line and we can discuss it if you are interested.

Stephen

[email protected]
Old 01-06-2002, 06:24 AM
  #17  
Shaun Evans
 
Shaun Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 7,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default First Jet

I wanted to chime in on this one. The Yellow Aircraft Starfire is pretty hard to beat as a first jet. It is true that it takes a bit more piloting than the TGA planes, but only in the sense that it lands at a slightly faster clip. In the air, the airplane will slow down to a crawl with flaps, and it can approach 200 at full throttle with an O.S. .91.

I've been flying this plane for a few years now, and most people are impressed with its performance (although most people aren't impressed with the way I've been landing lately--but my coach, Buck, has almost got me back where I used to be).

The price of the kit isn't much more than that of the TGA birds, and definitely low compared to most 'jet trainers', but the quality of the kit is superb. The construction time and effort is less, too. Yellow Aircraft has two versions of the Starfire, one with the traditional polyester glass fuse, and this one is roughly $80 less than the newer, pre-primed, carbon-reinforced epoxy-glass kit. Turbine accessories like exhaust systems, fuel tanks and turbine inlets are available, too.

Like all Yellow Aircraft kits, you immediately feel like you got MORE than you paid for when you open the Starfire box. The quality of the kit and the fit of the parts is very, very good. The kits, and all of the necessary components to build one, are available (at discounted prices) from me.

The Starfire certainly isn't the only jet trainer, and there are others that are also very good. The BVM Bandit is a superb sport jet, though considerably more expensive. The TGA line of entry-level jets fly good enough that a person with moderate experience in high-performance prop planes would be able to handle them without problems, too. Take a look at the Jet Hangar line if you want something small and less expensive (they do require more patience and skill as a builder, though). All in all, there's plenty of good jets out there to start off with. Whatever you get, you won't have to look farther than here for lots of good help. If you're interested in any of the Yellow Aircraft line, email me. I offer the best prices and PROMPT delivery. Good luck!
Old 01-06-2002, 06:38 AM
  #18  
JohnVH
My Feedback: (38)
 
JohnVH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ferndale, WA
Posts: 16,170
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Hello Yellow, good to see you here too!
Old 01-06-2002, 07:40 AM
  #19  
Macgyver
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default ByroBlaster

Would somebody post A link to one of the ByroBlaster's web site for these guy's and for me I have lost it somwhere.It is A byron fan and Balsa USA Enforcer kit in one.Thanks,take care-Mac
Old 01-06-2002, 01:13 PM
  #20  
Edgar Perez
My Feedback: (13)
 
Edgar Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gurabo, PUERTO RICO (USA)
Posts: 2,386
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Links:
ByroBlaster Enforcer
Joe Lupton's Enforcer

Edgar
Old 01-06-2002, 01:28 PM
  #21  
AirGar
My Feedback: (7)
 
AirGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario, Ca. AZ
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Yellow,

Well I bought the Starfire as my first jet (haven't started it yet), and the problem I have with it, is the instructions SUCK. No pics for referencing, and everything is talked about like it's for an experience DF flyer. There are many items/instructions in this that a "new DF" person trying trying to put one together would have a hard time, myself included. It is NOT geared for the beginner.

My .02

Gary
Old 01-06-2002, 05:51 PM
  #22  
Shaun Evans
 
Shaun Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 7,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Starfire Instructions

AirGar,
Wow. What do you REALLY think?! I'm sorry you're disappointed with the instructions. What kits have you built before? I'm wondering, since you said there's no pics, if you didn't get the photo pac (containing 65 pics) that comes with the instructions. There are also full-size plans.
I have a customer who's building the Starfire as his first jet, and he's been sending me regular updates. There have been a few areas where he's gotten hung up, but a simple email or call is all it takes to straighten it out. So far, he's doing great. This jet is his first, and only his fifth RC kit. Also, he's only 13.
If you have problems, by all means, post them or email me. There are quite a few Starfire owners out there who can help if I can't. Obviously, I disagree with you that it isn't geared toward beginners, since you can build one in a week. I'd like to see you have success with yours, though, so let me get a photo pac to you and see if that helps. Also, if this is your first jet, what other instruction manuals have you seen for jets? I think a side-by-side comparison would show you that actually, ours are pretty good.

Good luck, and let me know...

[email protected]
Old 01-07-2002, 05:12 PM
  #23  
byrocat
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aurora| Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default First Jet Model

My reply is going to take a different tact from what's gone on before, and ask a core question: "what's your budget for this model?"

Depending upon the source, you can pick up a new OS91 for about $250US, depending on the head type (regular or Byron heat-sink). Figure on the same for the fan unit. Depending upon the condition of your radio, you'll probably need a new set of servoes (metal gear and current generation).

Kit prices are all over the place. Scratch-building or kit-bashing is comparable.

The best thing to do right now is to find out who the jet jockeys in your area are, and talk to them about who's doing what and what their preferences are. You might be surprised and have someone mention a friend who's getting out and selling a complete rig at a bargain price.

Otherwise, select the kit, fan unit/engine combination,radio, retracts and what-nots. Work out the budget and where you can compromise (os.77 instead of the .90) and start shopping around.

This is the voice of experience: I've accumulated an OS.77, Byron pipe, couplers, fan unit, and radio from hanging out at swap meets and eBay. I've got a planset (Fun-Scale Phantom from RCM) and am creating the bulkheads and should have it well under way by the end of February.

Once Toledo is over, this will be my primary project (barring honey-dos and spring arriving early) and should be ready for flight by mid-summer.

Of course, if you're all hot-and-horny with a platinum Amex/MC/Visa card burning a hole in your pocket, the concept of budget does not apply.

...Bruce
Old 01-07-2002, 06:23 PM
  #24  
yeahbaby
My Feedback: (21)
 
yeahbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FT Worth, TX
Posts: 6,442
Received 21 Likes on 21 Posts
Default what's the budget?

good post Bruce. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Always ask yourself, what do I really want to fly? and then establish a gameplan to acquire it. if you can't afford it now, so what, empty the coffee container and fill it up bit by bit until you can.

have fun in the spring.

Buck
Old 01-08-2002, 02:34 AM
  #25  
Dave Barrow-RCU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Covington, KY
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Best affordable jet trainer?

Jets can be done on a budget. I built my first jet, a Regal Eagle, two years ago with an auction kit and used power unit(OS.77,Byro fan&pipe). All up cost, built, glassed, painted and ready to fly $450. It has fixed gear and I'm having a ball flying it off a rough grass field. I am now building a Balsa USA Enforcer to use the same power(also picked up from forums and e-bay). The total cost of this one with better servos will be about $600. These prices do not include recievers and transmitter. I have recently picked up an old BVM A-4 kit, retracts, K&B 7.5, and Turbax fan unit, and am looking forward to building it next(estimated completion cost $500). Turbines jets sound nice, but I'm going to have three jets flying for less than the price of the cheapest turbine engine. I am also the only one flying jets at my club field.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.