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Yellow F18 Twin

Old 05-02-2005, 04:40 PM
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TED ANTON
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Default Yellow F18 Twin

Hi Guys

I have 2 Yellow F18 's on the go, one is a twin the other is a single ( Ram 1000 )
I have the twin more or less worked out but was wondering if any one has any
input regarding single engine mounting ideas. Any pic's would be a great help


Thanks

Ted

Old 05-02-2005, 09:10 PM
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sideshow
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

For the love of God man, reinforce the spars!!!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Yell...2911525/tm.htm
Old 05-03-2005, 11:40 AM
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Shaun Evans
 
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

Uhhhh...


The spars are fine, Bob, it's the bulkheads that are in question......
Old 05-03-2005, 09:13 PM
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hornet driver
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

test
Old 05-03-2005, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

it is my understanding that the spars on the composite kit extend further into the wings than the old gren kit

hornetdriver
Old 05-03-2005, 09:32 PM
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin


ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft

Uhhhh...


The spars are fine, Bob, it's the bulkheads that are in question......
Oh......sorry.


For the love of God man, reinforce the bulkheads!!!
Old 05-03-2005, 09:58 PM
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TED ANTON
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

The new kit ( latest ) is quite a bit different than the old kit . Not just the spars, Yellow made many improvments.I built one a few years back with Dynamax and twin OS 91's, I even have 2 proto type fuses that were set up for Byron fans. I saw the early versions fly with Byron fans and Rossi 81's, didn't fly to bad but very loud .

Ted
Old 05-04-2005, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

I have sat on the Sidelines and listened to all the nonsense about the Big Yellow F18 long enough.

Anyone who is thinking of Flying a very Large Turbine or building one should have some past experience to go by. The Yellow F18 twin Formers both in front just aft of the Intakes and to the rear need to be double reinforced. There are some builders making Carbon Fiber bulkheads and even one fellow making Aluminum ones. This has been the weak link for a long time but I would have thought everybody knows this. I spoke with the Owner of Yellow and he shared this information with me years ago.

There is noting new hear that I am saying and if one that wasn't built correctly lost a wing then so be it accidents do happen especially if something is built wrong.

Just wanted to clear the Air and this Great Yellow F18 name for the folks that really don't know much about them.

Ian



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Old 05-04-2005, 09:43 AM
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diceman
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

There is tons of info on RCU regarding the 18's. A quick search will provide you with volumes of material most of which is pretty good. I would pay most attention to the information provided by those who have actually built the model (older version or newer version).

With that in mind, I will give you a couple of things to look for:

The older kits have short spars and should be replaced by a new spar package available from YAC.

The older kits which are going to be converted to Turbine use or already have need to have the formers reinforced. If you are considering an older model for conversion which is a finished model, this structrual problem will be very difficult to deal with. I have had many interested parties contct me regarding purchase, and refit to a turbine of an older kit, and I always will advise them not to proceed, but to purchase a newer kit, and build it right from the ground up. An older kit not started can be build to Turbine standards with a lot of additional work.

In all kits, the front and rear fuse formers that hold the wing receivers need to doubled at a minimun. This can be accomplished by simply cutting new formers and mating them together. Other more complicated methods have been used by some builders, however they are more exercises in craftsmanship than really making the model more sound. Your choice.

The retract units and struts are considerably more substatntial on the newer version than the older. New gear will fit in place of the older gear.

Making the nose removable is a big advantage to access all the goodies you will need to put in the front as well.

There is more, but this project isn't really for less than an experienced model builder. The dynamics of a 50lb model airplane traveiling over 150 mph are staggering.

Good Luck!!

Old 05-04-2005, 09:46 AM
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diceman
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

One additional bit of info. The RAM 1000 power will at best be marginal. The premimum power for these as a single are: AMT 400 or JetCat Titan. You will be very disappointed with the RAM 1000 power and performance.
Old 05-04-2005, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

Hi Ted,
Good to hear you are still into jets. Hopefully I will see you next month at Bay of Q. I will bring one of my CF-188 Tiger's built by Tom Wood. You are welcome to go through the plane and take photos. There are differences in the bypass and tailpipe bewteen my P160 and P200 powered planes, will be happy to answer your questions. Also I echo Diceman's comment on following the advice of those who have built and flown the plane successfully. Hornet Driver has three of them and I still learn stuff from him, thanks Gregg. Diceman has built several and is finishing a twin powered one. Several guys in the West Coast are also experts. On the engine, I have flown the 18 with a 24lb RAM 1000. Just like the ducted fan days, with a heavy plane: long takeoff roll, no vertical to be proud of and one chance to land! 35lb class engines work very well, Olympus or P200 plenty nof power to spare.
Look forward to seeing you,
Jorge
Old 05-04-2005, 11:50 AM
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Dave Presta
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

Ian you need to chill, nobody's bashing the Yellow 18. All that people have said is that they were unaware that the bulkheads needed to be reinforced in order for the plane to be airworthy with turbine power. I have been flying jets for a long time, and have been around this plane for over 10 years and it wasnt until my own plane went in that I heard about this. I guess I was just out of the loop and didnt make enough phone calls. Its when people start getting defensive that these threads go sideways, so just relax and let the people with experience help those who are asking for it.
As far as the power is concerned, I agree that the Ram 1000 would not be enough power. I had considered the same power package that Jorge is flying with in my plane. I was introduced to the Artes Rhino and was pleasantly suprised as to how much power this engine makes for being so light. The fuel consumption is much lower then the alternative powerhouses, so my flight times were much higher using the same fuel capacity. Seeing that the CG of this plane is at the forward edge of the engine hatch, whatever turbine you choose will be behind the CG requiring more nose weight to balance out. With the Rhino installed in my plane, I did not need any nose weight other then mounting the batteries as far forward in the nose as I could get them. This makes for a much lighter plane overall and I was able to walk it in on landing and fly from a very small field. Not only is the plane now much lighter, but the power of the Rhino is closer to 38-40 lbs and will get this big bird off the ground in 300ft and with outstanding vertical performance.
Hope this information helps,
Dave
Old 05-04-2005, 06:33 PM
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin


ORIGINAL: diceman

There is tons of info on RCU regarding the 18's. A quick search will provide you with volumes of material most of which is pretty good. I would pay most attention to the information provided by those who have actually built the model (older version or newer version).

With that in mind, I will give you a couple of things to look for:

The older kits have short spars and should be replaced by a new spar package available from YAC.

The older kits which are going to be converted to Turbine use or already have need to have the formers reinforced. If you are considering an older model for conversion which is a finished model, this structrual problem will be very difficult to deal with. I have had many interested parties contct me regarding purchase, and refit to a turbine of an older kit, and I always will advise them not to proceed, but to purchase a newer kit, and build it right from the ground up. An older kit not started can be build to Turbine standards with a lot of additional work.

In all kits, the front and rear fuse formers that hold the wing receivers need to doubled at a minimun. This can be accomplished by simply cutting new formers and mating them together. Other more complicated methods have been used by some builders, however they are more exercises in craftsmanship than really making the model more sound. Your choice.

The retract units and struts are considerably more substatntial on the newer version than the older. New gear will fit in place of the older gear.

Making the nose removable is a big advantage to access all the goodies you will need to put in the front as well.

There is more, but this project isn't really for less than an experienced model builder. The dynamics of a 50lb model airplane traveiling over 150 mph are staggering.

Good Luck!!


Good Info!

A couple of things to consider, though:

It's sensible to listen only to guys who've built the model, but there are a few guys out there who've built the model so heavy that maybe they might not be the best source of advice on how to build it. There's simply no reason to add more than a pound making this bird turbine-safe. In fact, if a builder made only the mods/additions we recommend, he should only expect to add 8-10 ounces.

The last generation green polyester kit has the same spar system that is offered in the new epoxy kit. If in doubt, it's very easy to figure out whether or not you have the long spars in your wings.

If you have the old twin-fan bulkhead, simply doubling it with a similar one might not do the trick. At its thinnest/weakest point, that bulkhead is only 5/8" wide. Doubling it would produce a piece of plywood that is only 5/8"x1/2". I'm not sure that I'd trust a 38 pound model to that, considering how much it's being asked to bear.

The best thing to do is to simply back the bulkheads (the span of the front and the top span of the rear) up with carbon plate (it only needs to be 1.5mm to 1/8" thick). At a cost of $20-$40 (and a few saw blades), it's not too bad. The only other reinforcement necessary for turbine use (on the newer kit) is to the gear plates.

Hope this helps.
Old 05-04-2005, 09:47 PM
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TED ANTON
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

Thanks for all the input guys it's much appreciated !

Dave I saw your video that's too bad, It was painfull to watch especialy in slow mo
Hope to see you flying another F18 sometime soon.
Jorge it's great to hear from you again it's been a while, Iv'e seen you in a couple of SKS videos
with your planes ( all looked great) looking forward to seeing you soon.

Thanks again guys

Ted
Old 05-05-2005, 01:47 AM
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin

jorge

>>>> Hornet Driver has three of them and I still learn stuff from him, thanks Gregg.>>>>thanks for the kind words ...i really appreciate them

as far as your tigers...you have raised the bar to a level never seen before ....truely awesome!!! not only the paint job but the install all the way through your wheel chocks...and the creme de la creme...THE GEAR!!!!..unbelieveable...its too cool

after i do bucks steering mod ask him how he likes it and i will do yours...or you can have charles send me a steering yoke...aka wheel collar ( a few dollars ) and i wil do yours too

now about the brakes we have been hashin about!!!!

shawn

we build them heavy....208 oz of fuel all north of the cg.....jumbo elevator servos to insure all the torque needed to lift the nose...40 oz of smoke oil...the big 45 lb oly ......twin 3000 mah bats in the nose.....42 lbs dry.....so it isnt a park flyer or a sail plane.....but our planes are as reliable as it gets......and land like a kitten ( if there is no cross winds )....spool up the oly and she is alive at 55 ...of course a good pilot helps but a good plane makes a pilot look good!

i can tell you this....the big yellow hornet has its day in the sun.....at every event when its " people`s chioce " time......gota love it!!!....packin all that wood home....with a plaque plaque here and a plague plague there...here a plague there a plague everywhere a plaque plaque....

hornetdriver
Old 05-05-2005, 01:52 AM
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Default RE: Yellow F18 Twin


ORIGINAL: hornet driver



i can tell you this....the big yellow hornet has its day in the sun.....at every event when its " people`s chioce " time......gota love it!!!....packin all that wood home....with a plaque plaque here and a plague plague there...here a plague there a plague everywhere a plaque plaque....

hornetdriver

LOL, that's what I love to read........poetry!

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