For those who have inquired about the Sierra giant scale gears sepcific to my Vampire design, please see the following link and Sierra contact info below:

http://www.sierragiant.com/prod09.html

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Sierra is in a run of Vampire Gears NOW and it would be a good idea to contact them if your interested in a set.

They also offer a Scale wheel and brake set.

Regards:

Hi Per,
According to the Vampire manual I have, dated August, 1949, take offs are with no flaps or 30 degrees. Landings are with full flaps and speed brake closed. I'm sure the speed brake was kept closed because these early engines had a long spool up time and the plane had a low thrust/weight ratio. If you had to abort the landing, by the time you opened the throttle, closed the speed brakes, and with 80 degrees of flaps hanging out in the breeze, I don't think you'd make it. With our models we have a much higher thrust/weight ratio and that allows us to get away with things that could not be done on the real Vampire.
BRG,
Jon

Thanks Jon,
That is interesting. I was trained on the T-37 with the same type of turbines (radial compressor) with long spool-up time, 13 seconds from idle to full thrust if my memory serves me right. Not excactly overpowered, the T-37 engines were often referred to as the fuel to noice converters.
The procedures for landing called for maximum drag on final, full flaps, speed brakes out and automatic "thrust attenuators", spoilers in the jet exhaust on both sides. This resulted in high powersetting on final to ensure shorter accelleration to full thrust in case of a go-around. Speed brakes and thrust attenuators retracted in less than a second, full thrust was reached in 1-3 seconds, and a climb could be started. I do not recall if we reduced flap during the go-around, but landing gear was selected up when a positive climb was confirmed.
I just assumed the same thinking was used on the Vampire during landing, maybe they changed the speedbrake procedure after 1949 or the speedbrakes could optionally be selected out when landing was assured. All my pictures of landing Vampires show speedbrakes in the open position.
A collegue of mine is flying a full-size Vampire MK52 display this weekend at the Bergen Air Show, I could ask him about the last version of the manual.

Hi,
The manual I have is for the FB5 and 9. I think it would be very interesting to find out what it's like to fly it and the procedures he uses.
Hope you get to talk to him and post the info.
BRG,
Jon

Hi everyone,
Just to keep things interesting: if you want to build a Vampire that's different, try this one!
BRG,
Jon

Hi Jon & Per:

According to the owner, (Mark Thompson) of the Mk.5 vampire based at Kissimmee War Birds Museum in Fl. which I researched extensively, the speed flaps where used very sparingly as they are VERY effective in reducing speed and basicaly where used momentarily to trim off speed in the pattern but where rarely used for any length of time until touch down then fully deployed as a drag brake during roll-out.

It as also mentioned that when the flaps are at the 80 degree full deployment, and the gear down, the throttle was at near 70-80 percent power and that by retracting the flaps and gear and going the last 20% of power allowed for the go around power without having to wait for the long spool-up.

Interesting "stuff".

Hi Per,

I trained on Vampires (T11) in 1962-3 (I was VERY young then !) The 1949 procedure was still in use when I was on the last RAF Vampire course. Full flap , 80 degrees down, on finals caused a LOT of drag and you did not need airbrakes out. Overshoot was never a problem, full power, positive rate, gear up and retract flaps above 200 feet. Power setting on the Goblin was in RPM, not percentage, max 10,600, circuit around 7,000 rpm, approach about 6000 rpm and NOT below 5,500 rpm to achieve rapid acceleration.

Airbrakes either in or out, no in between, were not used on approach or on landing roll, only as an airbrake in the conventional sense just like your 767 but without the variable angle ! Still have my pilot's notes.

Amusing to hear what you called your T37 engines, on the Jet Provost Mk3 with its tiny 1750 pound thrust Viper, we referred to it as the constant thrust (not much) variable noise engine ! Still gave the performance of a Spitfire.

Happy days, where DID the years go.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

PS Booked SAS LHR-CPH-SIN on the 30th Sept. could you be flying us ?

Hi Kerry and Jon,
Will let you know when I get hold of the Vampire pilot.

David, sorry I missed Hungary, will be trying again in N-Ireland, maybe with something looking like a Mk52? We have exchanged the 767s for Airbus 330/340 mix. Expect MD80 to CPH then an Airbus to SIN. I am flying 737 for the time beeing, hope to become old enough for long-haul in a year or two. Thank you for flying Scandinavian Airlines!

Per

Per,
Where you able to talk to your friend over the weekend about the VAMPIRE?
BRG,
Jon

Haven't gotten hold of him yet, we are working opposite schedules appearently. Will try again this week.
Per

Hi Per.

If you arent old enough for long haul you wil certainly feel it after a few years of very long nights !
Looking forward to flying SAS. they have some great deal on long haul business class between Europe and the far East.
Regards. David.

Hello Per,

It was nice to meet you at the Laxå Jet Meeting. Your planes are really nice to look at both on the ground and in the air.

Göran

My friend took these at Lexå

Thank you Goeran and SJN. We sure had an excellent meeting at Laxå!
To be correct, the F-86 is not mine. I just built the internals a long time ago, for Florida Jets in 1997. It is a Fiberclassics kit and it belongs to Geir Flesche. He did the painting and has now rebuilt the internals for the SimJet 1200 installation.

Maybe we should try to stick to the topic here, I am still trying to get in contact with my friend about the Vampire procedures, but fortunately I spent the weekend flying models.

Per

Franz, F86 Sabre, or Per.....any idea what the cruising and top speed of the (model) vampire is??

Thanks,

Nony,
I have measured my model in a speed trap once, it clocked in at 265 km/h (143 knots) This was a level pass with reduced power. So I would expect top speed of more than 300 km/h, but I have not risked a full power dive.

Per

Thansk for lthe info...that is higher than I expected, but good........

Hi,
Just as a point of interest, Kerry has a redline speed of 125 mph for his VAMPIRE, which is fast enough for me.
BRG,
Jon

in my mind I though it was 100 mph...I just checked, and you are absolutely right.....

With my 1998 /1999 1/5th Vampire scale entry at Top Gun, the Vampire fitted with a RAM-750F
(17#) was clocked at 135 mph at 75% power. It weighed in at 26.7# wet.

The 125 mph limit was based on the fact that this is very near scale speed and that Vampire is not meant to be a 175 > 200 mph sport jet and the airframe has been subjected to higher speeds but it was not meant to be flown in such a manner as it is a scale subject.

To a person, the modelers who are flying their Vampires are very pleased with the designated flight speeds as it yeilds a very realisctic flight appearance.

The Vampire flight characteristics are best described as a Piper Cub fitted with a turbine !

I'm out of town on buisness until 9/8 after which time I can respond to any queries on my shop email as well. ([email protected])

Hi Guys,

It's officially building season in Canada ! I built a new 4'x8' worktable that is very flat and I'm inspired to get going on the Vamp again. I crawled over a Vamp at the Canadian Warplane Heritage and tweaked the plans to be more scale . Some changes are fairly easy and a few will require a little more thought and work . Kerry did a very good job but didn't have a Vampire handy to go over with a tape measure . I shouldn't worry about it but I am a little fussy by nature ! The landing gear continues to be a problem . I paid for it in full a month ago and still haven't seen it even though shipment has been promised twice since then . Now no one answers the phone..... I sure hope I get the gear soon or my money returned !

How are the other guys coming along with this project ?

Marc

Hi,
I've got the fuselage planked, but not finished sanded. The fins and booms are done and I'm sheeting the stab tonight.
Hope to start the wings this weekend.
It seems like the booms should be lowered around 1/4-3/8". I'm going to cut that amount off the top on the wing boom former and add the same amount to the bottom. I'm also going to try to mount the elevator and rudder servo's in the wing and use c/f pushrods connected to the surfaces.
I'm getting concerned about the gear too, but Darryl has always come through for me.
Is there any other changes we should know about? It's tough building a model that you've never seen in person.
BRG,
Jon

Hi Jon,

Don't lower the boom too much . I figured out what will look right yesterday . Just lower it .125'' and extend the boom fairing .75 inches forward of that shown on the plans . The slight curvature starts 5 1/8'' rear of there. Nothing beats getting up close and personal with the airplane . I extended a string from the straight portion of the boom and found that the extended line cleared the top surface of the wing by 1" so 0.2" on the model is correct . The model boom isn't high or wide enough . I'll look into modifying that as well . Too late for you . Only because I'm picky , I'm going to redesign the vertical stab and rudder to reflect yesterday's findings . There are a lot of little details that no 3 views or pictures have shown .

The scale elevator span is 20" Here's a pic of the revised fin/rudder/fairing outline.

Marc

I also extended the stab ribs by 3/8" and the TE will be extended .25" with the elevator cut line original .

Marc

Hi Mark, Jon;

Great to hear that the Vampires are in progress. You will be VERY please with the flight characteristics of this airplane.

Just a note on my Vampire drawing outline. It is likely not absolute perfect scale as very very few are as there is just no way to substantiate accuracy of any given publication on the subject matter when not having a full scale example to draw detail from as Marc pointed out. Fortunately, that is not the case with my F84F project in which I have a full scale example 45 minutes away and have found MANY a variance in the outline and detail of the 3 view I started with.

Even having a 3-View from the MANUFACTURER does NOT guarantee accuracy due to the MANY changes that occur during development and they do not go back and revise their General 3- View offering. My 1/5th scale ARES is a prime example of that as my model reflects all the airframe shape / area changes that where given to me by the Project engineer (David Ganser) during my 1991 visit to Mojava Airport and the factory 3 views have NEVER caught up with those changes.

Note, in the attaced pic, you wil see a Mk.6 w/ a pair of 120 gal. Venom Tanks. Try and find a 3 View of that configuration !

It is worth noting that the Vampire was truly an !QUOT!evergreen!QUOT! design which saw MANY changes to its structure and finished up at Mk. 52, which was the Swiss export version. Lastly, the subject Mk.1 model when presented for static judging against the publication to which it was designed, received a 100% outline score at Top Gun in 1998 /99.

As with any scale project offering, the best that a designer can hope for is to provide an accurate foundation to which infinite detail can be added by the modeler to to achieve the his or her objectives.

Be assured, I'm no offended in any way as I wish to thank those who when finished, will present an excellent example of this great war bird.

I look forward to seeing all these Vampires in the air where the truly do look their BEST !

Jon, Marc, keep up the good work and look forward to some Vampire formation flights in the future.