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Airworld Hawk Building thread

Old 11-02-2005, 06:33 AM
  #51  
schroedm
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

David,

A case of 'using' you here I'm afraid to benefit from your potential misfortune . ........

Would you recommend people get all the nose gear doors hinged and installed before installing the nose gear former woodwork? Looking at it last night, it would seem that there isn't much room to manoeuvre once the formers are in as you may be finding [&:]

What hinges are you using to hinge the nose gear doors? The moulded detail on the insides of the doors mean you can't just glue a hinge on it. The inside of the door will need a cavity created for the hinge?

Finally, do you know off the top of your head how much longer the nose doors need to be?

Thanks for all your help,
Mark
Old 11-02-2005, 06:45 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread



David


Sorry for getting off base in here with the topic,I just didn't want to send Mark an email/PM since I didn't know him.He was kind enough however to send me a PM this morning with all the info I needed.Thanks Mark & I will send you an PM back today


Now to be on topic the Airworld Hawk is absolutely stunning,what are the dimensions?What a beautful machine


Steve
Old 11-02-2005, 08:15 AM
  #53  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Hi David, what is the ISBN number of the book you previously refer to

MickB
Old 11-02-2005, 08:24 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Red Arrows from Dalton Fine books ISBN: 1-85443-217-6
Rgds,
Mark
Old 11-02-2005, 02:07 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

I`ll have a Frankturbine 70/16 in it.
Can you measure the max allowed diameter for the pipe at the rear? And the lenght of the pipe?
Gudmund, the pipe bellmouth is 140mm dia, the pipe exit dia is 95mm and the largest you could open the fuselage up at the rear is 110mm.

The thrust tube is 64.5cm long (excluding bellmouth)

Hope this helps.

Mark

PS Did anyone else get the items in the 4th photo?! If so, what are they for?????!!! [8D]
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:55 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Thanks Mark.

I was just considering making a homemade custom thrust-tube, that`s all.

But have come to the conclution not to.
P160 and a Frank 70/16 are both similar engines, and since this setup won the ultimate price in jet modelling, why worry about it ?.. The rear outlet is too narrow for what I planned also..

Hmmm. I think there are some custom-made parts going on in this thread allready, cince there are no three-way valves available on the market.. Any comments, David?
And yes, I`m in this business too, just because I have too. Glad I have the colours OK though...

Gudmund

Old 11-04-2005, 12:29 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

I would install the nose formers first and leave the doors till later.

Glass hinges were supplied in my kit and these will be countersunk into the internal door stiffeners.

Dont know what the three rivets are for !

The nose doors will need to be about 1/4 inch longer and the secondary nose door reduced accordingly, you can see that in any side view of the Hawk nose.

My Main gear doors are in. Starting from scratch this was a painful and time consuming process but it now all works beautifully and I have an extrmely solid mounted , frictionless door set up, with perfect fits I have ever had and they can be removed in seconds as I have used a removeable 1/16th music wire as an "axle" passing through both hinges.

Vital measurements :

The doors stop short of the vertical by 18 degrees. (BAe drawing)

You must leave a gap of about 1.5mm between the inside edge of the door and the wing structure to allow free opening.

The holes of the hinges which are mounted on the door should be at :

5/16ths inch from the door edge.

17/64ths inch from the lower, outside edge of the door. get that right and the door will JUST touch the smoke pod sides when open.

The wire is supported by two small spansise light plyn ribs each faced with a small piece of 1/16th glass board.

With the door taped in place the wire passes through the rib (which is a slightly loose fit in the wing, the first hinge, the second hinge and another small glass faced rib. When everything is in perfect alignment the ribs are tack glued into the wing to check all OK, then secured with Hysol.

You need to cut an access hole in the root rib to get at the rear hinge.

I will use standard JR 4721 servos for the doors as (a) I have some spare)and (b) strong servos will be needed on these large doors.

That should all be crystal clear (!!!!) so I will post a couple of pictures later.

Regards,

David Gladwin.
Old 11-04-2005, 02:51 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

David,

Whilst that is completely obvious and crystal clear I think it would be nice just to see some pics for fun!!! [X(]

Thanks,
Mark
Old 11-04-2005, 08:24 AM
  #59  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

And don't forget the info on the smoke system or tell us it is "secret"!!!!

Gazzer
Old 11-04-2005, 11:16 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

He's keeping very quiet about the smoke isn't he

M
Old 11-04-2005, 05:06 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Problem about smoke is I know what works in UK (the Reds told me) BUT I need to determine exactly what dye it is in Australia ! My friend who led the Roulettes some years ago here in Australia can't remember the spec. and I need to call the Rouettes at Sale, havent got around to it YET. Patience guys ! What I do know is that the dye expensive !! I do have the new Jetcat smoke pump to try out soon and it looks excellent and can be used with any engine, JetCat or otherwise.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

PS I have just been watching the new Traplet JWM dvd (excellent quality) and as well as the AW Hawk I took a close look at the Hawk of Stephan Volker. To my eyes that Hawk is not quite right somehow, I think it is that the main gear looks to long and dangly, any comments.
Old 11-04-2005, 05:37 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

David,

One thing I noticed straight away is that it seemed to fly like a kite!! Looked extremely light on the sticks (almost unrealistically so) - any idea of weight/wingloading??

Rgds,
Mark
Old 11-04-2005, 05:45 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

I agree. Struts do indeed seem too long. Noticed that on the banking turn on that deadstick landing. A few have commented on it being unrealistically 'light' therefore not performing with presence.
Old 11-05-2005, 04:34 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread


ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

Problem about smoke is I know what works in UK (the Reds told me) BUT I need to determine exactly what dye it is in Australia ! My friend who led the Roulettes some years ago here in Australia can't remember the spec. and I need to call the Rouettes at Sale, havent got around to it YET. Patience guys ! What I do know is that the dye expensive !! I do have the new Jetcat smoke pump to try out soon and it looks excellent and can be used with any engine, JetCat or otherwise.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

PS I have just been watching the new Traplet JWM dvd (excellent quality) and as well as the AW Hawk I took a close look at the Hawk of Stephan Volker. To my eyes that Hawk is not quite right somehow, I think it is that the main gear looks to long and dangly, any comments.
i got liters left of the stuff
blue done that
red done that
NEVER touching it again
here is why:

everything around you is blue
if the wind is blown towards spectators or cars they turn blue
your hands stay blue for weeks
they start calling you smurf
you airframe statrts turning blue
everything made of wood absorbs the blue dye
your tires , lawn

i also design smoke systems
i use no secret : bio diesel
it will be a big fat white smoke trail over one meter column if injeted properly
the stuff is bio degradeble so it can also be washed of with water





Old 11-05-2005, 05:29 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Sandor,

Wow! Those pics will excite a lot of people! Actually SEEING coloured smoke for real! I understand your concerns however ()....

if the wind is blown towards spectators or cars they turn blue
I'll stand upwind

your hands stay blue for weeks
Will employ some 'pit crew'

everything around you is blue
See above 2 points [8D]

they start calling you smurf
Not me they won't! See above

you airframe statrts turning blue
It'll be coming out the furthest aft part of the Hawk

everything made of wood absorbs the blue dye
The Hawk is all composite

your tires , lawn
Should all be going on behind the tires, our field needs a splah of colour to liven it up


Old 11-05-2005, 05:48 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

dont laugh!!!

look what happened to my Airworld L-39
first it was white

kidding aside
i am experimenting with dye for some time now
if you are planning to use it:

make sure the refilling is done ouside the fuselage
the container MUST be 100% leak free , this stuff will dye anything in its path
and the smoke coming out oon the end WILL be sucked back partialy into the second layer of the thrustpipe
therefore WILL dye parts of your fuselage

the bags of dye you are seeing are part of a experiment
since no one sells you the dye ,instead just the "liquid"solution.
and i dont want to meet the postman who kicked the postpackage with liquid dye in it[8D].
the bags you see on the table will be the colors that are on stock soon (please dont ask me when!)
they will be delivered in "dry state" 1 tablespoon bag =50ml colored smoke
the dye you mix with bio diesel or coleslaw-oil ? is that what its cold in the states?
at the current flowrate of my smoke system (1 liter=1 minute smoke)
in the l-39 i have a kevlar 2 liter tank beneath the main 4.6 liter tank
so basicly if you are a show man you can make a full aerobatic program for 5 minutes with smoke on and off
you can see on the pic that the contaier holding the blue dye was actualy white but the dye went into the plastic
Old 11-05-2005, 09:15 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread


[quote]ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

Problem about smoke is I know what works in UK (the Reds told me) BUT I need to determine exactly what dye it is in Australia ! My friend who led the Roulettes some years ago here in Australia can't remember the spec. and I need to call the Rouettes at Sale, havent got around to it YET. Patience guys ! What I do know is that the dye expensive !! I do have the new Jetcat smoke pump to try out soon and it looks excellent and can be used with any engine, JetCat or otherwise.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

David, you`re right...
VEEEERY expensive.. One kilo costs 120 Euro, wich is enough for 7,5 to 10 liters of this all wanted stuff.
Incredible..

Brg

Gudmund
Old 11-05-2005, 01:57 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread


ORIGINAL: Sandor

dont laugh!!!

look what happened to my Airworld L-39
first it was white

kidding aside
i am experimenting with dye for some time now
if you are planning to use it:

make sure the refilling is done ouside the fuselage
the container MUST be 100% leak free , this stuff will dye anything in its path
and the smoke coming out oon the end WILL be sucked back partialy into the second layer of the thrustpipe
therefore WILL dye parts of your fuselage

the bags of dye you are seeing are part of a experiment
since no one sells you the dye ,instead just the "liquid"solution.
and i dont want to meet the postman who kicked the postpackage with liquid dye in it[8D].
the bags you see on the table will be the colors that are on stock soon (please dont ask me when!)
they will be delivered in "dry state" 1 tablespoon bag =50ml colored smoke
the dye you mix with bio diesel or coleslaw-oil ? is that what its cold in the states?
at the current flowrate of my smoke system (1 liter=1 minute smoke)
in the l-39 i have a kevlar 2 liter tank beneath the main 4.6 liter tank
so basicly if you are a show man you can make a full aerobatic program for 5 minutes with smoke on and off
you can see on the pic that the contaier holding the blue dye was actualy white but the dye went into the plastic
Coleslaw oil???? ----Corvis oil[sm=thumbup.gif] I'm sorry but I did get a chuckle out of that one..

Kevin
Old 11-05-2005, 02:02 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

You get what you pay for.. Side-effects are for free...

Gudmund
Old 11-06-2005, 01:28 AM
  #70  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

I get what you are saying about smoke dye, at Scampton I saw first hand the effect of leakage and the ground crews wear full protection when handling it. Rather llike so many nasty substances in aviation (avpin, Skydrol, LOX and C- stoff and T-stoff ! ) they can all be handled with care.

Wing loading on the Volker Hawk must be around half that of the Airworld as they are the same weight.

Door hinges. These pix may make the installation clearer. They have yet to have the Hysol applied just fixed with CA until next Hysol session.

Regards,

David Gladwin.
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Old 11-06-2005, 01:33 PM
  #71  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Thansk for the smoking stories guys, plenty of cautionary tales which must be heeded. Hence the reluctance of a supplier I found once in supplying us model blokes I suggest!

Assuming you could get round the handling and discharge problems, how on earth do you make it go several colours during the display? As David says patience is the watch word given I have still not finished the Facet, then patience is fine!!!!

Gazzer
Old 11-06-2005, 06:13 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Thanks for the pics David.

Would like to see the access hatches you cut. General question for all here - what tool/method do you find best for cutting out access panels etc of glassfibre fuselages etc especially those hatches with rounded corners??

Anyway, finally got a couple of hours on my Hawk today and took some pics so we have the first installment of my 'construction guide' - the Nose Gear former/retract. Already bumped into a couple of obstacles that would have been good to know beforehand!!

Let me know if there is any interest from fellow "Hawkers" or potential Hawk owners for these 'guides'. If so, I will continue to produce them as I go.

Rgds,
Mark

PS First NoseGear/Former guide right mouse click and save target as [link=http://www.mark.schroeder.dsl.pipex.com/Hawk/NoseGear.pdf]here[/link]
Old 11-06-2005, 08:01 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Spent some time yesterday working out those nose doors, (and final set up of my FC Mig 29, finished at last !!) conclusion:
The model is not 100% accurate, very good but not perfect (which model is ? )

The best compromise I can find is to trim 22mm off the rear door, cut it down the middle and attach to the forward doors. That means that when the secondary door is at the correct angle its bottom edge is about the same as the lower edge of the forward doors AND the gap between the rear edge of the doors and the front plane of the nose leg strut is about right ! Even BAe drawings vary here but the photos tell the truth.

Good news is that there is an external re-inforcing plate on the real Hawk so the join is not a problem.

Mark, for cutting hatches I use a razor saw.

Bad news:

There are over 20 access panels on the Hawk fuse. On the AW Hawk they are ALL raised. On the BAe Hawk they are ALL flush. I wont bother sorting that out until my second Hawk as it seems like an awful lot of work !

I'll leave you guys to carry on as I am away from home for a few days. Good luck.

Regards,

David Gladwin

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Old 11-07-2005, 06:48 PM
  #74  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Guys,

Squeezed another hour in tonight between nappy changing and feeding to fit the main gear. Here's my 'guide' for those who asked me to continue producing them!....

For MainGear Install guide Right click and then "Save Target As" [link=http://www.composite-arf.co.uk/Hawk/MainGear.pdf]here[/link]

Rgds,
Mark

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Old 11-10-2005, 06:22 PM
  #75  
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Default RE: Airworld Hawk Building thread

Nose gear doors done. Again, without an instruction manual this is a tedious job but perhaps the enclosed picture will help.

A few points. The gap between the door edges and the fuselage need to be about 1.5mm or they will not open cleanly when the geometry is such that when open the doors are as tight as possible against the fuselage skin.

The hinge point of the door hinges is about 5 mm from the edge and low enough (virtually touching the inside skin of the fuselage) so that the doors are flush when closed . The glass hinges neeed quite a bit of trimming.

Just tack everything into place lightly to check fits and function before glueing it all in permanantly with Hysol.

I do not think it possible to get the inner edges of the doors totally in contact with the fuselage when the doors are open as the door edge is straight, the lower fuselage is curved.

The reason there is so much space in the wheel well ahead of the retracted model wheel is that the pivot point of the real Hawk noseleg is much lower and further forward than that of the model.


I also enclose a picture of the nose hatches being corrected to give the correct corner radius.

Almost there, now for the canopy !

Regards,

David Gladwin.
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