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Safety Matters

Old 03-17-2007, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Garrett,

The AMA recommends 10 feet between the pilots and the taxi area and the taxi area is set at 15 feet. So the runway to pilot recommendation is 25 feet. Keep in mind this is for an AMA designated site, not a temporary site for an event.

There is no recommendation for a barrier (probably not practical at most locations.

AMA recommends another 20 feet from pilot line to pits.

Most any barrier can stop a runaway and in most cases so can the retract switch.

Mark M.
Old 03-17-2007, 07:12 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the numbers. I'll take those to the next meeting with me.

I agree that the retract switch can do the job but many won't think to hit the switch in time. At out current site, we have a fence between the pilot's box and runway and then, extending beyond that for a way in either direction, a barrier made from car tyres standing upright but sunk half way into the ground. I've heard people complain over the years that the tyres should be removed because they have wrecked models by hitting them on poor landings. In my opinion....that means they are doing exactly what they are intended to do.

I was wondering whether anyone has used a low netting fence (like bird netting used over fruit trees ) that will catch a model but not necessarily tear it apart?

Regards,
Garrett
Old 03-18-2007, 01:20 AM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash


ORIGINAL: garrett_mcdonal

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the numbers. I'll take those to the next meeting with me.

I agree that the retract switch can do the job but many won't think to hit the switch in time. At out current site, we have a fence between the pilot's box and runway and then, extending beyond that for a way in either direction, a barrier made from car tyres standing upright but sunk half way into the ground. I've heard people complain over the years that the tyres should be removed because they have wrecked models by hitting them on poor landings. In my opinion....that means they are doing exactly what they are intended to do.

I was wondering whether anyone has used a low netting fence (like bird netting used over fruit trees ) that will catch a model but not necessarily tear it apart?

Regards,
Garrett
Garrett, We use a plastic fence that is about 2 foot high and it works pretty good. I understand what you are talking about. The netting would have to be mounted so that it could release and slow the plane down gradually. Anything that would stop and out of control plane fast is probably going to break something. The last thing on my mind if my plane is heading towards a person is to not break something on the plane. I would rather lose the whole plane then hurt or kill someone. And that should be the mind set for everyone. The netting fence might be a good idea in front of the tires. But I wouldn't remove the tires.
Old 03-18-2007, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

The AMA separation distance numbers might be appropriate minimums for the average club field. For jets, wouldn't it be better to increase those safety zones? I would most certainly increase them at jet meet sites where there is more concentrated activity. There are also spectators that might have no clue how heavy and fast the average jet model is.
Such spectators would be considered the unsuspecting puplic.

Chris
Old 03-18-2007, 05:16 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Chris,

No necessarily. Remember Turbine Jets are required to have working rudders, have brakes and a sign off of pilot ability. Jets, on the ground, will generally cause LESS damage to soft tissue than a spinning prop.

At Jet events, the spectators are much farther away than I think most people realize. Anyone in the pits is no longer a spectator. They should be a pilot (flying or not), part of a crew helping the pilot or ave signed off to understanding the risk (photographers, etc). Most every event I've been to does not allow spectators in the pits

Mark
Old 03-20-2007, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Mark,

You're right about ground operations. The safety zones are probably adequate. Most pilots and aircraft are up to the task. I guess I'm more concerned about in-flight hazards. At some meets I've been to the flight paths are very close to the pits and therefore very close to the spectator line.
In addition, at more than one meet I've seen a mix of crew, pilots, and family members/friends all mingling in the pits too. I agree most meets don't allow spectators in the pits, but they are there anyway. The issue may not really be safety zones, but rather people control or lack of.

I hardly think Moms or Dads with toddlers, baby carriages, 12 year olds carrying balloons, cotton candy tripping over model jets, would qualify as crew. Often I see them with pit passes too. They are unsuspecting (and uncontrolled) spectators. I don't go to more than 3 or 4 meets per year, but I have seen this scenario at the majority of those meets. How often do we see the spectator line spread out along the length of the runway? Almost always Mom and Pop set up the lawn chairs closer and closer to the edge of the runway the further away from the show center they get. Hmmm...right where the jet is at a critical point in the approach or takeoff too.

For the record, I've seen this at prop events as well.
The CD has a challange. Keeping it fun for everyone, giving folks their money's worth, and safety. That's why they are paid the big bucks



Old 04-05-2007, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

We reply in this area because we are trying to avoid scenes like this. I understand your view. It definitely wasn't something with the turbine, but we are handling aircraft in smaller tolerances and must be aware of these occurrences.
Old 05-15-2007, 10:25 AM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

NM
Old 10-07-2007, 04:10 AM
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Default RE: Safety Matters

hello boys[>:]
Old 10-19-2007, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: Safety Matters

I have a question for the safety minded folks-

If one was to overhaul the safety program at an RC club that has several jets, pylon races, etc - what are, lets say, the top three things that have been done in the last 5 years that have been deemed as an improvement to safety that also allow flexibility in flight operations?

Or - are we still doing things the same way for the most part?

I assume some of the larger clubs that host large events are probably more progressive in implementing new ideas, etc. However, necessity is the mother of invention as we say, so I'm sure good ideas exist everywhere regardless of size based on individual circumstances.
Old 11-12-2007, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

This could have gone real bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hYNOFDRL8M
Old 11-12-2007, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

WOW!!!!!! [:@]
Old 11-12-2007, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

DOUBLE WOW!!!
Old 11-20-2007, 02:20 AM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Well, heres another incident which proves that safety awareness and close inspection of our jets is vital. In preparation for this weekends meeting I have spent today meticulously checking my Mig 29. Everything checked out fine , flight controls , engine failsafe settings, and hydraulics for leaks etc. Usual stuff. Fuel system undisturbed sincle last time but just an engine run to check them out as the engines themselves had been out.

No 2 engine, fine. No 1 engine, left, slow to ramp and would not reach full rpm. Shortly afterwards fuel seen dripping from cowl.
Investigation revealed that the pressure line from pump to cutoff valve was not over even the first barb and was quite loose. Nothing has been touched since installation so it must always have been this way and the engines have been run many times without any problem. However the fuel line (Festo) has aged and lost what grip it had, result could have been a serious fire. Yes, it was my fault that the fuel line was not over the barbs but perhaps this can be a "heads up" for anyone who uses unbarbed fittings, such as some tube joiners like 3-4mm. Festo tubing WILL age over time and can lose its grip so if your fuel lines are of some age you may care to give them a close inspection, particularly if you used any unbarbed fittings in the pressure lines. Might save you a fire.

Regards, David Gladwin.
Old 12-03-2007, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Only points out the obvious, David......that shut-offs/any filters/Tees, etc., ought only to be on the pump feed side...w/ a straight shot/no breaks in the pressure line. I.e., pump-to-engine as directly as possible.

We use all manner of Festos...never had a problem w/ this configuration......and any possible air bubble introduced, due to a bad connection, is usually obvious before flight upon inspection (though I've never had one)....and HAS to be better than the situation you potentially had on your hands !

Ray
Old 12-10-2007, 05:36 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash


ORIGINAL: SJN

This could have gone real bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hYNOFDRL8M
The pilot landed fairly quick after that, I sure hope he was ordered to and sent packing.
The bump that turned the plane toward the pits was in the first few feet of the take off roll and it could have easily been aborted, taxi around and tried again.
There was absolutely no reason to continue the takeoff through the pits/ready area.
Old 02-09-2008, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash


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ORIGINAL: SJN

This could have gone real bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hYNOFDRL8M
The pilot landed fairly quick after that, I sure hope he was ordered to and sent packing.
The bump that turned the plane toward the pits was in the first few feet of the take off roll and it could have easily been aborted, taxi around and tried again.
There was absolutely no reason to continue the takeoff through the pits/ready area.
i second that, did you notice where the pilot was standing?
Old 02-13-2008, 12:34 AM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Hey ghost ryder, is this true about someone getting killed by an rc plane? was it recent? i read where you said do a frame by frame analys where is the video.thanks Billy
Old 03-02-2008, 01:21 AM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

We had a club member killed by an RC plane in 1981. Was a 60 size plane that hit him in the side and ruptured his liver.. He died in the OR.
Old 03-04-2008, 11:46 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash


ORIGINAL: Stallman

What does the combustion chamber have to do with anything?
really nothing - i just wanted to show it.......
jackjet
hesperia,ca.
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Old 05-10-2008, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

hi this flight should of been stopped before he nearly killed at least 5 people the guy that dived on the deck would off been the first and this should also been kept local and not put out for every one to see, thats the reason we dont want d*"kheads flying jets its bad for every one no matter if you fly in the usa or the uk or the rest of the world i dont no what rules you fly to in the usa but this guy would not be flying jets here in the uk regards jonathan
Old 05-13-2008, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

just how are you going to stop him from flying a turbine jet ?


jackjet
Old 08-18-2008, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY

This weekend in the UK, we had a really great jet meeting at RAF Cottesmore. There was only one crash and it really worries me . An ARF model had a wing disintegrate in flight, and crashed, fortunately clear of the pits in the grass, yet another structural failure of an aircraft from the same manufacturer of other airframes which have failed. A while ago I had to dodge another machine, same manufacturer, on which the stab. had failed, due to a poorly built structure. Several of us examined the wreckage and the internal structure was very poor, minimal, and a significant amount of the glueing had NOT met both surfaces, I have the photos to prove it beyond doubt. In addition the main spar was prevented from contacting the skin beacuse it was undersize, the TE spar preventing proper contact where the two meet.minimal structure, poorly executed.

As I personally own one of these machines, yet to fly, and found some serious structural deficiencies in the wing (now corrected) and know that some of the part of the internal structure were totally undersized, others misplaced, and I have heard of several of these machines disintegrating, I have an interest.

The one at Cottesmore, was recent version, so the problem seems to be ongoing. The question is this: As we KNOW there is a problem what are WE going to do about it ? Do we wait until a possibly very serious incident/ accident occurrs or do we start to fully report such occurrences to bring pressure on the manufacturer to get this aspect of his act togther.

If nothing is done and we bury our heads in the sand, continue with this game of Russian Roulett, afraid of upsetting the manufacturer or incurring his displeasure, we are merely contributing to, even exacerbating, the problem. If there IS a serious accident the future of the whole hobby may be in serious jeopardy.

Please discuss.

Regards,

David Gladwin.
Old 08-18-2008, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash


ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY

This weekend in the UK, we had a really great jet meeting at RAF Cottesmore. There was only one crash and it really worries me . An ARF model had a wing disintegrate in flight, and crashed, fortunately clear of the pits in the grass, yet another structural failure of an aircraft from the same manufacturer of other airframes which have failed. A while ago I had to dodge another machine, same manufacturer, on which the stab. had failed, due to a poorly built structure. Several of us examined the wreckage and the internal structure was very poor, minimal, and a significant amount of the glueing had NOT met both surfaces, I have the photos to prove it beyond doubt. In addition the main spar was prevented from contacting the skin beacuse it was undersize, the TE spar preventing proper contact where the two meet.minimal structure, poorly executed.

As I personally own one of these machines, yet to fly, and found some serious structural deficiencies in the wing (now corrected) and know that some of the part of the internal structure were totally undersized, others misplaced, and I have heard of several of these machines disintegrating, I have an interest.

The one at Cottesmore, was recent version, so the problem seems to be ongoing. The question is this: As we KNOW there is a problem what are WE going to do about it ? Do we wait until a possibly very serious incident/ accident occurrs or do we start to fully report such occurrences to bring pressure on the manufacturer to get this aspect of his act togther.

If nothing is done and we bury our heads in the sand, continue with this game of Russian Roulett, afraid of upsetting the manufacturer or incurring his displeasure, we are merely contributing to, even exacerbating, the problem. If there IS a serious accident the future of the whole hobby may be in serious jeopardy.

Please discuss.

Regards,

David Gladwin.
I had to dodge another machine, same manufacturer, on which the stab. had failed, due to a poorly built structure. Several of us examined the wreckage and the internal structure was very poor, minimal, and a significant amount of the glueing had NOT met both surfaces, I have the photos to prove it beyond doubt. In addition the main spar was prevented from contacting the skin beacuse it was undersize, the TE spar preventing proper contact where the two meet.minimal structure, poorly executed.
Well put. However, under these uncomfortable circumstances, there is no reason why you should hide which manufacturers is responsible for this.
Old 08-18-2008, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash


David
You mentioned "Structural Integrity" but said nothing as to what type of A/C or mfg. Why the silence ? In other threads you mentioned the problems with the BVM kingcat. SAFETY ISSUES should not be kept quiet
as they can only hurt the hobby.
Semper Fi
Joe

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