Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
 Safety Matters >

Safety Matters

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Safety Matters

Old 05-21-2006, 07:28 PM
  #201  
 
David Gladwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CookhamBerkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,927
Received 146 Likes on 94 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Thanks for your commiserasions guys, at least we had done the right thing and had an extinguisher close to the runway so we stopped the fire getting to the fuel tanks long enough to destroy them and most of the ellectronics and engine were saved as were the wings. A broken tailpipe was the problem, impossible to inspect when installed.
Now for a quite extraordinary co-incidence. At the field yesterday we were parked right next to a derelict ex RAAF Canberra. In 1970 I had a serious inflight fire whilst flying an RAF Canberra , the fire caused by , yes a tailpipe separation, actually the transition shroud which converted the circular engine exhaust to the oval tailpipe, it had come loose allowing full power hot gas into the engine nacelle. Fortunately I was able to shutdown the engine and kill the fire before returning for a single engine landing, grossly overweight as we had full tips and an overload tank in the bomb bay. That got my full and totally undivided attention ad screwed up a very nice few days on fighter affil. exercise in Germany.

Regards,

David Gladwin.
Old 05-22-2006, 02:00 AM
  #202  
Senior Member
 
Robrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Sorry to hear of your jetpipe problem, I'll bet plenty of other L39 owners are checking their jetpipes right now.

When you say the jetpipe is impossible to inspect are there no gaps where you could insert a small extended dental mirror with pen torch ? That's what we used to use for difficult to access areas in fullsize practice on the older less maintenance friendly airframes.

I wonder how many people actually regularly inspect their jetpipes are part of their airframe/powerplant maintenance.

Rob.
Old 05-22-2006, 04:15 AM
  #203  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Buntingford, HERTFORDSHIRE, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Yes absolutely - pls publish all that in a magazine for all jet operators to be aware of ...

Thanks

Paul
Old 05-22-2006, 05:35 AM
  #204  
 
David Gladwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CookhamBerkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,927
Received 146 Likes on 94 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

I can now reveal the problem as I have informed Wren of the details. There are hundreds of Wren tailpipes in service and mine is the first failure. Same happens from time to time in real aviation even with the very best manufacturers eg Rolls Royce and I hold Wren in similar high regard. The tailpipe failed as only two of the welds (of about 20 ) were holding the tailpipe together the rest of the welds had not fully contacted the inner tailpipe and the welds were right on the extreme end of the tailpipe metal. After all this flying, 106 flights, the two welds had failed in fatigue and there simply was not enough strength left in the other welds to hold things together.

The fix : I suggest tht all operators have four straps welded to their tailpipes to hold the two sections together so that if the welds fail there is another load path.

Thats life in aviation, things from time to time go wrong in every organisation, we simply have to be frank and honest in our reporting and do or damndest to prevent a recuurence.

Treadstone : Yes I HAD inspected the tailpipe on the L39 just as I would have done on my walkround on a RB211 or CF 6. and every engine I have operated before . There was no distortion, wrinkling, uneven discolouration or any other sign of distress all looked normal and I do use a torch and where neccessary and dental mirror (but not a shuftyiscope, dont go that far ! !) I defy anyone to have picked up this problem.

The pipe is being sent to Wren for their examination and action.

Regards,

David Gladwin.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Us53774.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	30.2 KB
ID:	464883  
Old 05-22-2006, 06:18 AM
  #205  
 
Gazzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southam, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

I watched the awful Discovery programme last night about Japan Airlines 123 which was a 747 in 1985 and killed all but 4 on board. The post crash investigation revealed a repair by Boeing was at fault, only one line of rivets had been used following a scrape on the underside with a nose high pilot, and the rear pressure seal bulkead blew out taking the fin and some stab with it.

And this goes to show that safety no matter who you are, can catch you out. The chief engineer at Japan Airlines killed himself shortly afterwards.

So I would imagine no time wasted by Wren reviewing the current products in manufacture, those who have them fitted can check them by removal and inspection as far as practicable, and perhaps a bulletin about this issued by Wren in due course, and if it is feasible to inspect, how this might be achieved.

But the safety planning observed by David meant an appropriately located and to hand extinguisher saving the majority of the aircraft, that's what we mean about safety. Risk reduction. I've noted on one or two crashes where a fire starts, younger fitter than I men running up the fields and airways with a fire extinguisher, all being taken from the pits.

At the big shows, have the professionals to hand, after all we have first aiders in attendance, and at club level, working agreement on where to place extinguishers so if something goes wrong, you can leg it to the extinguisher nearest and therefore faster intervention.

I hope to speak to some colleagues in the fire service at a nearby airport and see if I can get some guidance and advice on firefighting for our models and then share this. As I can't drive (or sand currently!!!) this may take some time. If it happens it should be worthwhile though.

And with the quick and honest sharing of the information, everyone is able to make a positive decision about what best to do BEFORE it gets the chance to re-occur, diminshing further the already low likelihood of failure.

Gazzer
Old 05-22-2006, 06:40 AM
  #206  
Senior Member
 
Robrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Yes, unfortunately despite our best efforts, from time to time these things do happen. I remember years ago doing a post engine change check run on an Olympus and only finding the jetpipe/exhaust bellows assy. was leaking hot gasses as we performed power checks. Fortunately the with the bay doors open the hot gases just vented to atmosphere but it did serve to remind us why we were doing the check run in the first place.

I suppose other than physically doing a pull check on the spot welds, which would entail removal of the pipe assy, but even then it could still be difficult to pick up,this mode of failure is very difficult to anticipate. There is an awefull lot more to a good spot weld than most people will realise, temp profile during the weld cycle, contact surface area, penetration, duration, etc. To the layman a bad weld can seem no different to a perfectly good one, also the characteristics of a good weld can change with time and the constant heat cycling.

Rob.
Old 05-22-2006, 10:53 PM
  #207  
 
David Gladwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CookhamBerkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,927
Received 146 Likes on 94 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Gazzer,

If you discuss firefighting with your local brigade the probability is that they will tell you the same as I was told when I had to do my bi annual Safety Equipment Procedures training which included a visit to a fire training school, specialisising in aviation fire safety.
From what I remember they recommend as the best extinguishant BCF but that is now only permitted for aviation use and difficult for us to get hold of, I recently tried to get mine refilled in Australia, no joy. They are still used in the cabins in airliners as they are the most effective, trade name Halon. A similar agent is used in aircraft engine fire bottles and work by depriving the fire of oxygen.

Best for our use is CO2 and that worked for me last Sunday.

Effective but very messy is dry powder, best kept for kitchen use only.

However, a new agent, trade name Fostrex was recently announced by Eclipse Aviation (www. eclipseaviation.com) and will be installed in the Eclipse 500 VLJ and is claimed to be VERY efficient. I hope to get more news of this at Farnborough in July and will report back if I have any joy.

I have somwhere in my possesion a firestick which was proposed some years ago for model jet use. This was a plastic tube filled with Halon and if the temp. rose above a certain value the plastic would melt releasing the Halon. Problem is, of course, we cant get Halon any more !

Co-incidences happen, I was discussing the JAL fin separation just yesterday with Dave Burns, our IJMC rep who is also a Qantas engineer.



Regards,

David Gladwin.
Old 05-23-2006, 05:06 AM
  #208  
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,672
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Gazzer

Halon is now banned in all UK aircraft, due to as you say it depribes the fire of oxygen unfortunatly this exclusion of oxygen also applies to the passengers, hence Halon is now also banned in offices and public areas in the UK.

Mike
Old 05-23-2006, 08:20 AM
  #209  
 
Gazzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southam, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Hi guys,

Yep was aware of the Halon ban since they were taken off the police vehicles I drive, shame, as they were good!

However, using my "contacts" I am hopeful that the specialists will take a common sense approach and give overview and guidance, not something they would normally do as fires are dangerous and the reason they have full courses is obvious.

That said the lads are pretty pragamatic and nice enough to make me some tea, so who knows, I will try and get something that can be of value.

Those on board extinguishers referred to I think were also designed to break in an impact thus depriving the immediate area with oxygen and reducing fire risks.

Given where we are with electronics and sensors, should not be too long before someone invents a self releasing CO2 cartridge that ignites on impact or temperature too high............... Not for one moment suggesting you should not fly if you don't have on board extinguisher but again something to consider that could reduce risks...........

Which brings me to a little phrase I heard a while back and have just remembered.[X(]

Put a guy in a car that has massive fenders/bumpers, is fully airbagged, with seatbelts and massive and big made of thick steel etc, and put another guy next to him on a tiny exposed framework car with a large bottle of nitro and a bottle of glycerine strapped to the front, and a spike comign out of the steering wheel and guess who is likely to have an accident first........[:-]

You have to work at safety!!!


Gazzer
Old 05-23-2006, 11:03 AM
  #210  
My Feedback: (4)
 
Eddie P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 1,915
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Really good discussions.
Old 05-24-2006, 06:54 AM
  #211  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Halon is banned in the States. Has be for some time. Same reasons.
Old 05-27-2006, 01:34 PM
  #212  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

But the end result was probably the guy just flew the plane anyway, and nobody said anything because they did not want to be unpopular?

You UK guys...how would YOU react to the same situation?
I could've grounded him, but I'm not his mommy. The PIC and his back up pilot both have enough age, experience and education to know better, but know...wink, wink, nudge, nudge, be a pal, be a pal.

If these turbine guys want to risk losing the last local field to fly turbines and would rather drive 3 hours each way to B.W., or deal with the mobs at Sepulveda, who am I to stop them?

Safety is an attitude, not a rule.

Daren
Old 05-29-2006, 07:43 AM
  #213  
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,672
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Hi all

Have not logged on to this forum for a while as I think this one has run its course on this issue, what we need is a dedicated forum to disscuss these issues, but one that sounds sexy enough to encourage others to read it you know those who think they are safe already.

Suggestion for forum title?

With all the expertise being expressed here we should be able to come up with some good suggested safety rules for both club and display use although they should not be far appart, a moderator needs to be appointed, one that will keep the rules in a logical sequence and fromat for disscusion.

What do you all think?

Mike
Old 05-29-2006, 09:31 AM
  #214  
 
CJ2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Wilts, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash


ORIGINAL: BaldEagel


With all the expertise being expressed here we should be able to come up with some good suggested safety rules for both club and display use although they should not be far appart, a moderator needs to be appointed, one that will keep the rules in a logical sequence and fromat for disscusion.

What do you all think?

Mike
Mike,

We have suitable and sufficent rules/guidance to feed from (in the UK anyway - CAP 658, BMFA, JMA & GTBA). We don't need any more rules...what we can do is to review/refine the ones we have and concentrate more effort on their use and improving the safety culture in general - that's the way forward. I like David Gladwin's idea of a 'flying control committee' at jet meets...might trial it at the next Classic Jets if I can persuade the right people to help me out.

Cheers,

Dick
England


PS...the JMA Cttee were given a mandate to talk to the BMFA wrt the idea of putting in place some sort of certificate of competence for jet pilots. I know they've started the dialogue and if it ever comes to fruition as a meaningful and workable programme, it could enhance general 'jet safety'.


Old 05-29-2006, 11:23 AM
  #215  
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,672
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Dick

I agree we do not want anymore rules what we need is a practical set of rules to be used every day by the ordinary folk that fly on club sites, something short sharp and to the point and about flying safety, this is after the club committe or whoever has allocated the car parking area, pits and control thereof, and the area of take off. I was not trying to re-invent the rule book, just bring it into the attention span of the ordinary flyer the ones who are not involved and don't read all the present CAP's or BMFA handbook JMA etc:

Mike
Old 05-30-2006, 09:14 PM
  #216  
 
David Gladwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CookhamBerkshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,927
Received 146 Likes on 94 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Its not just model jet safety that needs improving by education for better airmanship (we dont need MORE rules just adherance to those already in place and the use of more common sense) ! Just got my copy of "Pilot" magazine., UK's best GA magazine. On of the incidents reported in their safety section is the case of a helicopter pilot who vacated his machine with engine and rotors running with the helo. only 5 metres froma refuelling bowser ! Can you believe it !

Interesting to see that Dick is considering a "flying committe ", only need one or two people, but Classic Jets is way down the bottom of the list of meetings which need it, it has always been a very safe meeting, relaxed, enjoyabe and everyone seems to know what they are about. Looking forward to flying at a couple this summer.

Regards, David Gladwin.
Old 06-01-2006, 05:40 AM
  #217  
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,672
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Sorry guys could not dissagre with you more about the rules, this is where the whole thing falls down, its doing nothing that causes nothing to change and I was not talking about jets only I am talking about the whole of model flying.

The current rules and regulations we have in place are too complicated and boring for the day to day punter to even consider reading, what I am suggesting is something short sharp and to the point that everyone will read not just those that are already convinced and have read all the unsexy CAP's et all.

Give it some serious thought please guys or nothing done nothing changes.

Mike
Old 06-05-2006, 07:26 PM
  #218  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oxford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

I for one would be very keen to see a per-issue safety column in RCJI, but maybe run like the "I Learned About Flying From That" series which was found in the RAF's Flight Safety magazine (Air Clues - referred-to by David G already). The column was usually composed of contributions from Pilots who felt motivated to share their experiences without repercussion - the RAF has always allowed pilots to report airmisses and other flying stuff-ups anonymously for the benefit of others. During my RAF Reservist phase, it made captivating reading during the inevitable waiting-around in crew-rooms. The point I'm trying to make is it shouldn't be a burden for one columnist but rather a compilation of true stories, facts, discoveries, hints, tips and any other safety related news which will benefit the rest of us. We all occasionally 'stuff-up' in our building and operation of models and I'm sure these lessons, if sought and published freely, will be welcomed and valued by those who are receptive to them. For those who aren't (receptive) a rules framework at public events would provide the minimum. Attitudes only change by changing behaviour, and this means 'doing things differently'. The rules will see to that, but they must be enforced when needed.

Andy
Old 06-05-2006, 07:49 PM
  #219  
My Feedback: (17)
 
8178's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,348
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Andy,

The US Navy Air had a similar magazine and I always found the accident investigations very interesting. They all had a common thread in that there were usually a series of errors that lead up the final and fatal error. At that point it was too late for the pilot to recover. Often the pilot could have corrected the errors early in the series but didn’t or didn’t recognize the importance of the error. Much of the information could be and has been applied to RC flying.
Old 06-14-2006, 11:21 PM
  #220  
My Feedback: (2)
 
Silver182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

June 12th approx. 10:30am
Location: Chatfield Aerodrome Chatfield State Park Southwest metro Denver area
Event Warbirds over the Rockies
Flight of two Egils Titan powered F-15 and my P-80 powered BVM MIG-15
OAT 85 degrees Density altitude about 8,500 feet MSL
Runway taking off to the South, left hand pattern
Wind about 15 MPH from the South Southwest

What happened:
You wouldn’t think so but my MIG out ran Egils F-15 by 30 plus MPH, and climbed with him all the way… except for my MIG’s takeoff performance which requires most of our 600-foot north/south runway. We had a great flight of two for about 8 minutes. Egil landed when he was bingo on fuel. His Titan really gulps fuel especially when he's got the hammer down

I then setup on downwind for landing, extending the landing gear, lowering full flaps, presetting my brakes at about ½ for short roll out…. And finally began to turn base leg and clicked my speed doors switch to help build drag for the 1/3 to ½ power approach. I have conditions…similar to JR’s modes set to auto retrim for landing condition.

Quickly no more than 1 second after I switch speed doors open.. My aircraft goes into fail-safe? Note: I set fail-safes in my turbine powered Jets for a snap-roll this time to the left as the pattern was to the left…after 1 second of bad data snap-roll begins and turbine shutdown is set for 2 seconds. One second delay for the radio and one second for the turbine ECU. I’ve have used those settings for most of the 5/12 years this MIG has flown… nothing new for me.

So naturally I’m thinking what the F*ck… why the fail-safe now? About 4 seconds after my MIG began a slow snap roll to the left..Boom it crashes and within 15 seconds smoke was visible coming from the crash site! Note: My BVM MIG with full flaps and gear down snaps with a roll rate of about 270 degrees a second.. Pronounced but a bit slow.. For sure going to dig a hole. As it turns out good thing..Yes I said good thing!

Note the attached aerial view of our Chatfield Aerodrome. North/south was active taking off to the South left pattern required. My base leg turn was a little long as we try to do that turn at on this runway at or before the noted building… the building is the south entrance gate / station for Chatfield State Park. It has one person normally on duty during the summer months.

My crash site was in-fact about 100 yards to the east and slightly north of the guard shack as we call it...crash site marked with a Red X. Recall I said good thing about how quickly and relatively short distance my MIG traveled before crashing. Notice the aerial view and what is about 300 feet to the west of my final approach path landing south! Yep those are campsites very active and full this time of the year. We don’t fly to the west of the line extending north and south from our north/south runway. And normally we don’t extend our downwind as long as I did this day.

So what do you suppose would of or could have happened this day if I had not had my normal snap roll fail-safe programmed in? I believe the likelihood of hitting someone or something would have been very high.

Why fail-safe this day:
Nothing is for sure but I am 95% sure this must have been what caused crash.
After close inspection of the remains I found one of my receiver battery power switches in the OFF position. Do you use a checklist? I haven’t been… but I should!

The particular switch in question was connected to a 3000ma 4.8-volt NiCad battery pack and the receiver! The other switch the one that was ON was connected to a 7amp 5.6-volt regulator the receiver and a 7.4-volt 16C 2100ma LiPo battery pack. Seems like a screwy power supply system.. And maybe it is… but it has worked well for more than two years.

Pryor to the LiPo I had a lithium Ion 6 volt pack with no regulator! Don’t get hung up on the unbalance issue with this combo because in practice it has worked well for the 6 years I’ve been flying the airplane… But both switches were always on! In hindsight two alike four cell 4.8-volt 1500ma or two alike 5 cell 6.0 volt 1500ma packs would have been better… and would have weighed about the same. Not going to use a regulator again!

What I believe happened is the regulator heated up as they will do and with the combination of high OAT, max load of the airplane servos being drawn through one switch either the regulator sagged momentarily and/or the current drain was too high for the receiver to stay on-line. I’m not exactly sure… but what is for sure is that the one switch was found in the off position… and I never had as much as a short hold before much less a fail-safe!

What I’ve learned:
1. Always have snap roll fail-safe active.. You never know when you are going to really need it!
2. Don’t use a power supply system that requires a regulator!
3. Use only battery / switch / wiring harness combinations with enough capacity to each by themselves supply enough current and voltage for extended taxi plus longer than normal flight… or better yet find a way to power the receiver with voltage that is not linked to servo drain! Maybe isolation type power box systems available would be best of all..
4. Find a way to never but never be able to forget turning dual switches.. How dumb is that anyway?
5. Maybe we should actually use a checklist.
6. I miss the MIG already!
7. May lady luck be with you
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Zw69346.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	28.5 KB
ID:	477835   Click image for larger version

Name:	Nl29697.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	268.1 KB
ID:	477836   Click image for larger version

Name:	If10720.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	134.2 KB
ID:	477837  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:40 AM
  #221  
 
causeitflies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: EASTERN OHIO
Posts: 2,439
Received 42 Likes on 32 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Silver,
Sorry about the Mig.
What do you think caused the fire, the turbine or the Lipo?
Old 06-15-2006, 04:30 AM
  #222  
 
BaldEagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9,672
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Silver

Just for your information the site from which you operate would not meet the requirements of our insurance or the "Air Navigation Order" for aircraft over 7Kg (15.5lb) in the UK as it is too close to "People, vessals, vehicles or structures" and that is in a country with restricted land mass compared to the US.

MIke
Old 06-15-2006, 04:57 AM
  #223  
 
Gazzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southam, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Silver,

Very sorry to hear of your loss, looked like a fine aricraft and 5 1/2 years old, you must have been doing something right!!!

An excellent way to inform others and help all on what they may be able to do to avoid the incident. Again, the issue of fail safe comes up clearly in this incident showing it had a value in terms of safety in this circumstance.

Your thorough debrief is an excellent behavioural example and your frankness a standard to be achieved.

Thank you for sharing, and the issues raised will help me for the future,

Gazzer

Old 06-15-2006, 05:12 AM
  #224  
My Feedback: (2)
 
Silver182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

ORIGINAL: causeitflies-RCU

Silver,
Sorry about the Mig.
What do you think caused the fire, the turbine or the Lipo?
The turbine starter motor and front end turbine electronics were impact & fire damaged, but the turbine still spins freely. Not sure what started the fire. I am sending the motor into Jetcat soon and will ask for an opinion from what he sees.

The time line from fail-safe to hitting the ground wasn't more than 5 seconds. The only fuel recovered was about 1/3 tank in one of the two saddle tanks. That tank was leaking but otherwise thrown out of the burn area. I plumbed my MIG to burn off the large front end tank first, so it would have been empty. The other saddle tank supplied liquid fuel for the fire to be sure it would have been about 1/3 full. The LiPos themselves were smashed and twisted but they were thrown clear of the burn area. I had two LiPos on board both 7.4volt 16C 2100 ma rating. One ran the turbine, the other to the regulator and receiver. The 3000ma NiCad was way up front and showed physical & fire damage. Most all of the electrical wiring was burned clean of insulation.

The turbine would have been very hot at impact, fail-safe timing clearly had time to shut it off, but only for 2 or 3 seconds max.
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099
Old 06-15-2006, 06:22 AM
  #225  
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 5,432
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Default RE: 2 death 4 wounded in model airplane crash

Lee, was the switch that was found in the "off" position oriented such that the extreme deceleration at impact could have turned it off? In other words did you have to push it aft to turn it on?

Thanks and sorry to hear about the Mig. I've seen it years before in person and it was beautiful.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.