Foxbat711

My Feedback: (29)

Interested in getting first ducted fan jet... I fly off a flat and well maintained 500' grass field... Any other choices besides Starfire II and TGA Jets?

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

The Y/A A-4 and the F-16 will fly off grass, I have built and flown both off grass.

Vin...

Jetputz

Take a look at Jet Hangar Hobbies

www.jethangar.com

nice selection of good flying airplanes...that will fly off of grass pretty easily.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I had one. It's not a very forgiving airplane. Wait for your next jet for the Skyhawk. It tends to snap if you are not watching it.
My favorite choice for first jet is the Byron F16, hands down. People also say good things about the TG F15.

Jackjet

My Feedback: (1)

The A-4 is a good jet if you build the wing with washout in it and install flaps and move the CG 1/4" fwd of where the plans say-then it will not snap on you- a 14lb A-4 will land at 25mph with 40deg flap-no wind.


Jackjet

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I'm sure that all helps, but I just think there are better places to start. The A4 was the first jet I built, but I wish it had not been. If I can pass my modest experience onto somebody else I would rather they find a less critical plane than the Yellow A4 to fly for their first DF. But if you have to have it, go for it, I did.

mselby

My Feedback: (1)

The A4 is not really an ideal choice for a first ducted fan. You might consider Philip Avonds Rafale. It is an easy build, and the Delta wing cause the plane to have very polite characteristics.
Mike

mbick

My Feedback: (16)

The A4 is not that bad, exspecially built light and with the sport wing. But if it weighs more than 13 lbs and/or has the scale wing then you might want to wait or get help with the first couple of flights.

My favorite for a first ducted fan is the Jet Hanger F86. Built light and right it's easier to fly than GP Patriot(My opinion of course). I've flown most of the above and by far one the easiest to fly and real easy to see in the air.

By the way the Patriot is a good starting point. Something to think about....all depending on how much stick time you have already.

F9F Texan

My "ducted fan trainer" was a GP Patriot with an O.S. 46VRDF engine. ...Went through the speed trap at 146 mph. (two way average).

My first ducted fan was a Byron MiG 15...It wasn't as fast as the Patriot and was easier to fly.

I've never flown one, but I've heard the Top Gun F-15 is a good place to start. You can use either Byron or Ramtec/Dynamax.

Good Luck
Johnny

rcdfnut

I have the Y/A a-4 with the big wing it is my first jet I am still flying it. So far I haven't had anything nasty surface, --but give it time I guess it will come out --. As my instructor would say everytime I fly it make sure that the engine is running reliable and you would not have any problems, just take your time with it and keep it within the numbers and it is nice.

Oh and BTW everytime I bring it to fly my instructor always gives me an ear full of the bad habits of the plane

have fun, love punishment

Lee

PR38

Isn't the TG -15 the one with the hump in the back?
Not very scale, is it?

CobraJet

My Feedback: (4)

PR38,
There are two versions of the TGA F-15. The one with the "hump" is to accomodate the larger 6" Byron fan. The other version (Dynamax/Ramtec) version looks more scale than the Byron version. The below pic is of the Dynamax version. This one has the Ramtec, both of which are 5" fans.

Shaun Evans

The A-4, especially the sport-wing version, is a much better airplane than its reputation. When they first came out, they were only $210, so LOTS of guys grabbed one. The JHH A-4 was a popular jet (the Blue Angels were flying them at the time), and and then the Yellow A/C one came out and it built in about half the time of the JHH version. So many first-time pilots (not just first-time JET pilots, either) were flying them, that a lot of first-flight crashes were happening all over.

It's definitely true that the airplane's stall characteristics aren't as gentle as the TGA F-15 or the JHH Sabre. In the case of the A-4, you just have to make sure not to get the nose too high at low speeds, because when it does stall, it's usually relatively abrupt and one-wing-first. If you keep that in mind, you do just fine.

I kept hearing about how ferocious the flight characteristics were, but I found a partially built one that I couldn't pass up, so it ended up being my first jet. Jay Powell in San Diego helped me fly it (he had a couple of his own) and it flew great. He just stood there and said, "Okay, now don't do this...Don't do that..." Since then, I've built four of them. My 15 year-old nephew also had one for his first jet.

It's not the best first jet, that's true. If you can avoid having a first jet that has a more abrupt stall, why not avoid it? If you like A-4s, though, don't be afraid to fly one if you can just stick to the short list of "Don'ts". The Yellow A-4 build much faster than any of the JHH kits, and faster than the TGA -15s. The TGA F-15 can almost hover in a slight headwind, though, and some beginners might be better off to spend a little more time and money on one than do an A-4. Don't get the Byrojet version, though, because that significantly diminishes your options as far as what you can do with your powerplant later.

The newest A-4 is a nice kit, too. There aren't any hatches to build, and the fuselage has panel lines. The inlet was redesigned to be more efficient, and it's pretty fast. I finally got to see one fly on Ram 500 power out at Rabbit Dry Lake. It's pretty cool, though a hot lander.

Good luck with whatever you get, but if you want to get an A-4 (or any other Yellow A/C kit), gimme an email. I sell them for less than direct!

vinnyjet

My Feedback: (39)

SHAUN/VIN ARE RIGHT THE A-4 IS BETTER THAN ITS
REPUTATION. ALL OF THEM OLD VIOLET/JHH/YELLOW/SOME ONE
MAKES A BIG TURBINE ONE.ITS TRUE NEW PILOTS SEE JETS AT
THE FIELD AND WHAT TO GET ONE THE YELLOW A-4 IS STILL
A GREAT VALUE AND A LOT OF THEM WERE SOLD.PATTERN FLYING
IS THE BEST TRAINING FOR JETS. 60 SIZE WITH RETRACTS FASTER
ONES.LEARN TO FLY SMOOTH. A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS
A MASTER BUILDER AND FLYER ALWAYS TOLD ME THAT IS THE
SECRET
VINNY

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

Is this true of the Byron A-4 also? I just completed one and am waiting for the snow to melt for the first flight. I am moving up from a Byron F-16.

The final weight on my A-4 is 13 lbs with an OS91 and hurricane fan, dual aileron Servos and other mounted in the tail.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

The Byron A4 is a totally different aircraft. No relation.

EngrJoboo

Saw this thread, and thought I'd contribute...

Here is a little history of the Y/A A-4...

First off, the JHH A-4 is the old BVM A-4 Kit. JHH bought the kit from BVM in the early 80's I believe. (He's still referenced on the plans)

The Y/A A-4 came about after this aquisition. The Y/A A-4 is a direct copy of the JHH A-4. All fuselage dimensions are the same. It even has the same non-scale model airplane airfoil as the JHH kit.

Having flown both, I can honestly say that the JHH A-4 kit flys better than the Y/A. The Y/A A-4 is less forgiving in its flight characteristics.

Jackjet

My Feedback: (1)

W0mbat,
the Byron A-4 flies very well-I have built 6 of them over the years-it will fly up to 150mph with a Rossi.90-with a OS.91-about 125-130mph and at 14 lbs.-it will land at 25-30mph no wind-with flaps-even slower-don't let anyone tell you it is a bad plane- that is total bull shi*-just move the C/G 1/4" forward of what the plans say and she will fly just fine-(the plans say 1" in front of the engine former)-if you install a full set of gear doors-she will go 15mph faster.This would also make a great turbine conversion-just reinforce it where its needed.

Jackjet

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

To add a little info on the Topgun F-15 part of this thread.

There are actually 5 (Yeah Five) different versions of he TGA F-15 currently available (Or soon tobe):

1. TGA F-15 Ultra Eagle II (The one with the humpback for Byron Fans)

2. TGA F-15 Ultra Eagle PRO (Dynamax/Ramtec Without panel lines)

3. TGA Ultra Eagle III (More scale, with molded in panel lines, gun port, and lits o' scale details. Still has a slight bulge to accomade the Byron Fan unit) Scale wing available, too

4.TGA Ultra Eagle III-D (Same as above, without the slight bulge, for Dynamax/Ramtec. Has panel lines,etc.)

5. STBA TGA Ultra eagle III-T (Same as III-D except features added for Turbine use. Also has speed brake capability, Turbine only.

Check my site, www button below or www.tgajets.com for more info.

PR38

Terry,
(reading my post) I apologize if I sounded synical. That is a beautiful bird you've got there.
Are you going to be at Florida Jets?
-Adam

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, I can't make Florida this year. I am leaving next Tuesday for the WRAM show in Whiteplanes, New York.

I'll be with the Topgun Booth, Look Me and Steve up If you are going to NY.

Shaun Evans

Joboo,

Your information is mostly correct, but.....

The Yellow A-4 is not a direct copy of the JHH. A side-by-side comparison reveals many differences. As far as which one flies better, I can't say from personal experience since I've never flown the JHH one. I've seen it fly, and I thought it was pretty cool.

The only dimensions which are the same on the two kits is the length and width. JHH accused Yellow of stealing (or splashing) his A-4, but in the end, he couldn't substantiate it. Over the years, lots of manufacturers have faced the same accusations when they came out with similar airplanes to those that JHH had.

Here are some features that the Yellow A-4 has that the JHH doesn't, though:
1. Interformed hatch (requires only a couple of dowel pins and a hatch latch, instead of being cut out and framed out by the builder)

2. Fuselage panel detail.

3. Detailed out, interformed fiberglass canopy frame and cockpit floor. The builder doesn't have to cut anything out, just locate dowel pins and a hatch latch.

4. Pre-sheeted wings and stabs with all servo pockets and gear wells pre-routed. The landing gear mounts are preinstalled, too. The leading edges are pre-installed and only need to be final-shaped by the builder.

5. A redesigned inlet that allows for closer placement of the engine and use of conventional ducted-fan tanks. The inlet is much more efficient, and doesn't require cheater holes in it.

6. The kit is offered, at the same price, with an option of a larger sport wing, or the smaller, faster scale wing.

With all those differences, it's not all that accurate to say it's an exact copy. The Yellow kit builds in about half the time, and it's priced lower.

I'm putting one together for Simjet 1200 power, and I'll post some pics as I go.

See you guys in Florida!!!

A104FREAK

My Feedback: (2)

Century Jet Models Had aquired the Planes Plus/Turbine Connection A-4 which was originally the Air Champs A-4. We Have a static demo plane, (Just way too nice to fly) and a flying demo which had recieved some damage due to a flame out and subsequint dead stick landing. We hope to have another flying soon if not the same one just need the time to get to it. Bruce has so many irons in the fire and once some of them get pulled out we are gonna fly the poop outta the A-4 it is a great flyer and was even pretty forgiving on the dead stick landing just the terrain did not suit the landing. I have the flying demo here at the house and when time permits I am gonna rework it. If anyone cares to have have more info on it Call CJM at (502)-266-9234 or email at [email protected]. I can be reached through email at [email protected] and can answer questions about it as well.

Cheers

Jim O'Connell
Elizabethtown, KY

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Are there pics of the Planes Plus kit around anywhere?

A104FREAK

My Feedback: (2)

This is a picture of Vince's A-4, he had sent me earlier. I hope he don't mind me posting it.

Jim