What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
03-20-2008, 01:54 PM
#376
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: SpiderJets
It is very obvious why the wing failed, the manufacturer made a huge mistake.
...
The wing spar is a laser cut filmsy balsa strip (= not the worst part), but is INSTALLED IN THE WRONG GRAIN (NERVE) DIRECTION.
This means, all nerves of the whole internal structure are all of them horizontally and this means the wing is ready to split open at the first shock or serious wing force (like bending the wings).
In my case, it means the spar has split open from the wing root to about the mid of the wing, including all ribs in between both ends.
It is very obvious why the wing failed, the manufacturer made a huge mistake.
...
The wing spar is a laser cut filmsy balsa strip (= not the worst part), but is INSTALLED IN THE WRONG GRAIN (NERVE) DIRECTION.
This means, all nerves of the whole internal structure are all of them horizontally and this means the wing is ready to split open at the first shock or serious wing force (like bending the wings).
In my case, it means the spar has split open from the wing root to about the mid of the wing, including all ribs in between both ends.
I hope they do step up and replace the wings, but I'm not holding my breath. Guess I'll wait and see if I need to make a set myself for my Almost 150.
-Jorden
03-20-2008, 02:09 PM
#377
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: JKEpps
That is absolutely insane, especially after looking at the photos! Has this company made any other planes? Did they use an unknowing contractor or something? I would totally be afraid to fly any of their stuff with wings built like that!
I hope they do step up and replace the wings, but I'm not holding my breath. Guess I'll wait and see if I need to make a set myself for my Almost 150.
-Jorden
ORIGINAL: SpiderJets
It is very obvious why the wing failed, the manufacturer made a huge mistake.
...
The wing spar is a laser cut filmsy balsa strip (= not the worst part), but is INSTALLED IN THE WRONG GRAIN (NERVE) DIRECTION.
This means, all nerves of the whole internal structure are all of them horizontally and this means the wing is ready to split open at the first shock or serious wing force (like bending the wings).
In my case, it means the spar has split open from the wing root to about the mid of the wing, including all ribs in between both ends.
It is very obvious why the wing failed, the manufacturer made a huge mistake.
...
The wing spar is a laser cut filmsy balsa strip (= not the worst part), but is INSTALLED IN THE WRONG GRAIN (NERVE) DIRECTION.
This means, all nerves of the whole internal structure are all of them horizontally and this means the wing is ready to split open at the first shock or serious wing force (like bending the wings).
In my case, it means the spar has split open from the wing root to about the mid of the wing, including all ribs in between both ends.
I hope they do step up and replace the wings, but I'm not holding my breath. Guess I'll wait and see if I need to make a set myself for my Almost 150.
-Jorden
well the falcon 120 seems to be keeping up.
this one looks like a rush job....
cant believe it eather those are really stupid mistakes..
03-20-2008, 03:28 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
I am pleased to have found an e-mail in my mailbox indeed from a lady interpreter from China, assisting the manufacturer, having sent me the photos of the internal construction, as requested.
Apparantly they have changed a few minor things on the wings now on the current production batch (two servos per panel (for flaps and ailerons ?,...), but some of the vital mistakes are still there.
Hope they solve them, or even better, help us soonest with airworthy wings !
PS. To my opinion, these separate flaps are totally not necessary. I prefer the lower weight and less complexity above all on this plane.
Nicolas.
Apparantly they have changed a few minor things on the wings now on the current production batch (two servos per panel (for flaps and ailerons ?,...), but some of the vital mistakes are still there.
Hope they solve them, or even better, help us soonest with airworthy wings !
PS. To my opinion, these separate flaps are totally not necessary. I prefer the lower weight and less complexity above all on this plane.
Nicolas.
03-20-2008, 05:59 PM
#381
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
It was bound to happen
Here is what I sent to the guy on E-Bay
It was bound to happen
Here is what I sent to the guy on E-Bay
Please take this in the sprint that it is intended, This model is NOT turbine capable as you advertise, actually your ad is directly from the Nitro Models ad.
Believe me when I tell you this as I own one and am in the middle of extensive modifications to the airframe. Best Regards RCISFUN
Believe me when I tell you this as I own one and am in the middle of extensive modifications to the airframe. Best Regards RCISFUN
Dear rcisfun,
Thank you for your message, i am ended the auctions I do appreciate your concern
Thank you for your message, i am ended the auctions I do appreciate your concern
03-20-2008, 06:45 PM
#382
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Still can't believe you people are trying to fix these death traps up. Cut your losses and send the whole lot back for a refund. Buy a proper plane and regain the peace of mind it will bring you all.
Feel so sorry you have all been conned.
Simon.
Feel so sorry you have all been conned.
Simon.
03-21-2008, 01:15 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Simon,
You are right. But I have a plane which has beautifully flown, all bugs are fixed now, I have a new set of wings in my hands and I know where the last (and serious !) flaw is, I can fix the new wing set in an evening. Seriously, wouldn't you fly it again ?
We forget sooooooooooooo easily there was another jet era before ARTF, where we had to glue all parts ourselves, use fiberglass to cover the wings and then spend days and days in sanding and painting. [:'(]
For my 200 euro spent on the purchase of the nitro kit, and with the knowledge we have now, I am willing to do the extra work to save my other 800+ ! (Suppose we continue comparing, of course. Pun intended [8D] ) And judging by all comments I have received on direct, a whole lot of others with me, too.
I just went to the local hobby store and bought some Oracover to cover my wings again after the last mods and paid 60 euro already for this few meters of covering film only, so do not know how I could possibly build myself a plane for the other 140... ! (Or how they did it !)
In any case, it is a tendency you cannot stop, this kit will be in airworthy condition marketed one day soon, and properly designed and made by companies like Fly-Models, and at the current price if not a little more. Only too bad we were the test pigs but that's how it is when you buy such kit as an early adopter and start a thread with "What do you think of..."
I only do hope that all the kits out there right are spotted and now "fall in the safety butterfly net" while Fly-Models is curing the flaws. They seem to be very eager to do it (finally !), now that everyone has cancelled all their orders all of a sudden. With good reason.
Wanna bet that in less than 4 weeks there are the first airworthy Fly-Models Turbine Formost kits somewhere available on the market ?...
Nicolas.
You are right. But I have a plane which has beautifully flown, all bugs are fixed now, I have a new set of wings in my hands and I know where the last (and serious !) flaw is, I can fix the new wing set in an evening. Seriously, wouldn't you fly it again ?
We forget sooooooooooooo easily there was another jet era before ARTF, where we had to glue all parts ourselves, use fiberglass to cover the wings and then spend days and days in sanding and painting. [:'(]
For my 200 euro spent on the purchase of the nitro kit, and with the knowledge we have now, I am willing to do the extra work to save my other 800+ ! (Suppose we continue comparing, of course. Pun intended [8D] ) And judging by all comments I have received on direct, a whole lot of others with me, too.
I just went to the local hobby store and bought some Oracover to cover my wings again after the last mods and paid 60 euro already for this few meters of covering film only, so do not know how I could possibly build myself a plane for the other 140... ! (Or how they did it !)
In any case, it is a tendency you cannot stop, this kit will be in airworthy condition marketed one day soon, and properly designed and made by companies like Fly-Models, and at the current price if not a little more. Only too bad we were the test pigs but that's how it is when you buy such kit as an early adopter and start a thread with "What do you think of..."
I only do hope that all the kits out there right are spotted and now "fall in the safety butterfly net" while Fly-Models is curing the flaws. They seem to be very eager to do it (finally !), now that everyone has cancelled all their orders all of a sudden. With good reason.
Wanna bet that in less than 4 weeks there are the first airworthy Fly-Models Turbine Formost kits somewhere available on the market ?...
Nicolas.
03-21-2008, 08:02 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
BTW. Just got the new StepFour WingDesigner software. Great to play with. In fifteen minutes after installation, you can design a whole new wing, without introduction. Very user friendly.
I tried to reproduce the Formost wing as a sample test and I am very close.
Happy Easter to everyone ! Enjoy some quality Family time !
Nicolas.
03-21-2008, 03:17 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
hi all iam new to jets i just got 2 of the formost 150 kits is there some stuff you all can tell if it is a good starter jet i have been flyng jet be for but was not mine . my 2 formost 150 kits are the new ones thank if you all can give me any info on formost 150 any will help thank tom
03-21-2008, 03:46 PM
#388
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Hello Tomcat0818,
There are no Formost available at this time that are turbine ready...I have the one Nitro Models is selling and it is the same as the one Nicolas was working on.
Please read this thread from the beginning for all of the concerns however here is the basic list:
Main Areas of concern are the Spar (or lack of one), wing panels, unsupported main landing gear mounts, tail Boom flex, poor quality plywood, and wrong type of glue/poor glue joints.
I am well along with my conversion if you want additional info you cam PM me with your e-mail address and I can send some info.
Rich
There are no Formost available at this time that are turbine ready...I have the one Nitro Models is selling and it is the same as the one Nicolas was working on.
Please read this thread from the beginning for all of the concerns however here is the basic list:
Main Areas of concern are the Spar (or lack of one), wing panels, unsupported main landing gear mounts, tail Boom flex, poor quality plywood, and wrong type of glue/poor glue joints.
I am well along with my conversion if you want additional info you cam PM me with your e-mail address and I can send some info.
Rich
03-21-2008, 04:40 PM
#390
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Like I said I have a bunch of info if you feel like doing the conversion (AutoCAD drawings, and a basic how to list) that I am working on, I plan on posting in a PDF document when they are complete.
If you read Digitec's posts you can go to his web site and down load the drawing Nicolas has completed or you can order the bulkhead kit from Digitec; however I don't think he has the wing panel conversion or the CF spar yet.
You will need to throw at least another $100 per kit in materials needed to upgrade, i.e. CF spar, glue, plywood, covering etc.
Now before anyone jumps on me and keep asking why do this and not cut your losses.... it's my hobby and I like doing it!
All we are trying to do here is make sure that these are converted properly, if we didn't care about the hobby we wouldn't post the suggested upgrades and then unsuspecting people who buy this from Nitro models would have issues.
I think everyone should be writing to Nitro models telling them to pull their ad or at least remove the big bold Turbine ready section of their ad, they should make their disclaimer BIG and BOLD
Another suggestion would be to put a link to this thread on their site so people can be informed before purchasing.
Here is their current ad
http://www.nitroplanes.com/rcjetfo16076.html
If you read Digitec's posts you can go to his web site and down load the drawing Nicolas has completed or you can order the bulkhead kit from Digitec; however I don't think he has the wing panel conversion or the CF spar yet.
You will need to throw at least another $100 per kit in materials needed to upgrade, i.e. CF spar, glue, plywood, covering etc.
Now before anyone jumps on me and keep asking why do this and not cut your losses.... it's my hobby and I like doing it!
All we are trying to do here is make sure that these are converted properly, if we didn't care about the hobby we wouldn't post the suggested upgrades and then unsuspecting people who buy this from Nitro models would have issues.
I think everyone should be writing to Nitro models telling them to pull their ad or at least remove the big bold Turbine ready section of their ad, they should make their disclaimer BIG and BOLD
Another suggestion would be to put a link to this thread on their site so people can be informed before purchasing.
Here is their current ad
This is a 2008 Version 2 Formost-150 Jet The Jet can take 4C 160-180 Engine or Turbine (professional assembly and modification required)
03-22-2008, 10:16 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
REINFORCING THE WINGS
---------------------------------
OK. Here we go. Note that the needed new plywood parts for the wing spars etc are now included in the turbine conversion kit for the Formost from Digitech Turbines !
http://shop.digitech-turbines.com/in...k2lso7frnkku02
Or : Look at digitech-turbines.com under the "jets" section, under "Formost".
The purpose is to have a much stronger wing spar before glassing the wings. Note that both steps are necessary together, the one without the other makes the other step useless.
I started all over with a new set of wings.
First, remove the covering film completely, the top and bottom of both wings. This is very easy to do, it peels off very fast.
---------------------------------
OK. Here we go. Note that the needed new plywood parts for the wing spars etc are now included in the turbine conversion kit for the Formost from Digitech Turbines !
http://shop.digitech-turbines.com/in...k2lso7frnkku02
Or : Look at digitech-turbines.com under the "jets" section, under "Formost".
The purpose is to have a much stronger wing spar before glassing the wings. Note that both steps are necessary together, the one without the other makes the other step useless.
I started all over with a new set of wings.
First, remove the covering film completely, the top and bottom of both wings. This is very easy to do, it peels off very fast.
03-22-2008, 10:19 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
The existing flimsy balsa spar of 2,5 mm thickness will be doubled with high quality solid plywood of 3mm, with seven CNC made segments.
(Errr... for those measuring in the Imperial system and not well aware how thin 2,5 mm is : it is 1/10 of an inch, and in balsa !)
(Errr... for those measuring in the Imperial system and not well aware how thin 2,5 mm is : it is 1/10 of an inch, and in balsa !)
03-22-2008, 10:19 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
hi thanks for all the in info on the formost 150 me and a guy i new is going to go fly his formost 150 and he only did 2 small
mods to it i will let you all know how it go and we will be tapeing it i will take some pics be for take off and his have a jetcat p60 in it
mods to it i will let you all know how it go and we will be tapeing it i will take some pics be for take off and his have a jetcat p60 in it
03-22-2008, 10:24 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Start with the intersection closest to the wing root (=W7)
Cut the TOP side of the wing (balsa skin) away from the wing spar to the leading edge. Use a new sharp X-Acto blade.
I repeat : do this at the TOP side of the wing, I have cutted open completely my previous wing to study it, and due to the interlock system of the manufacturer, it is very likely you wll break the wing ribs or glue joints if you do this from the bottom side.
Cut the TOP side of the wing (balsa skin) away from the wing spar to the leading edge. Use a new sharp X-Acto blade.
I repeat : do this at the TOP side of the wing, I have cutted open completely my previous wing to study it, and due to the interlock system of the manufacturer, it is very likely you wll break the wing ribs or glue joints if you do this from the bottom side.
03-22-2008, 10:28 AM
#395
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Tomcat
Please do not take this the wrong way but.... I think you are making a big mistake if you don't make ALL of the required mods, Nicloas and myself have had these wing panels opened, THEY ARE NOT SAFE AS IS, you may get lucky on a few flights but at some point they will fail.
Please do not take this the wrong way but.... I think you are making a big mistake if you don't make ALL of the required mods, Nicloas and myself have had these wing panels opened, THEY ARE NOT SAFE AS IS, you may get lucky on a few flights but at some point they will fail.
03-22-2008, 10:29 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Do this one by one segment, while moving towards the wing tip. (From W7 to W1)
Remove the top skin very carefully, it is obvious we'll glue new balsa sheets before glassing, and of course you want then to keep the wing ribs intact.
This job is much easier than it looks like, the balsa is very soft and as said before, the glue is not the best you can get.
I spent about half an hour doing one wing panel.
Glue in the new wing spar parts with white wood glue against the existing balsa spar.
After that, we are ready to cover the wing again with 2mm balsa.
Remove the top skin very carefully, it is obvious we'll glue new balsa sheets before glassing, and of course you want then to keep the wing ribs intact.
This job is much easier than it looks like, the balsa is very soft and as said before, the glue is not the best you can get.
I spent about half an hour doing one wing panel.
Glue in the new wing spar parts with white wood glue against the existing balsa spar.
After that, we are ready to cover the wing again with 2mm balsa.
03-22-2008, 10:33 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
But now... my kids need me first (Easter weekend !!!) and I'll wait for the white glue to dry completely.
03-22-2008, 10:57 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
To everyone having purchased a Formost (even with big marketing promises yours is an updated version, IT IS NOT BETTER AND NOT SAFE ) and just bumping into this thread by coincidence, I cannot stress enough this kit IS NOT SAFE at all to fly, not even with a combustion engine.
I agree with Rich that NitroPlanes is using the ignorance of people who are not reading RCU to dump their stock very fast, now that it is proven and obvious this is a very dangerous kit. They even removed the earlier notice that it can only be used with a turbine with serious modifications done by experienced modelers. Having a link to a movie on YouTube of somebody who made a good test flight (I did too !) to prove it can, is very dangerous sales practice and totally irresponsible.
Please read the complete thread first before you decide to fly yours unmodified, and take a very close look to the photos on post 373 on page 15 !
That result is what you get if you fly it in the original kit state... not even talking about what we did on the fuselage part which is less vital and was more meant to accommodate a good turbine fuel tank easily and making sure you can rely on the landing gear not being ripped out.
The carbon wing tube is the first needed step to safety, but opening and reinforcing the wings is absolutely necessary !
Nicolas.
I agree with Rich that NitroPlanes is using the ignorance of people who are not reading RCU to dump their stock very fast, now that it is proven and obvious this is a very dangerous kit. They even removed the earlier notice that it can only be used with a turbine with serious modifications done by experienced modelers. Having a link to a movie on YouTube of somebody who made a good test flight (I did too !) to prove it can, is very dangerous sales practice and totally irresponsible.
Please read the complete thread first before you decide to fly yours unmodified, and take a very close look to the photos on post 373 on page 15 !
That result is what you get if you fly it in the original kit state... not even talking about what we did on the fuselage part which is less vital and was more meant to accommodate a good turbine fuel tank easily and making sure you can rely on the landing gear not being ripped out.
The carbon wing tube is the first needed step to safety, but opening and reinforcing the wings is absolutely necessary !
Nicolas.
03-22-2008, 11:07 AM
#399
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Here is an idea for Nitro Models
Post your concerns on this link (Nitro Models Support Link) I did!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_57...11/key_/tm.htm
Post your concerns on this link (Nitro Models Support Link) I did!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_57...11/key_/tm.htm
03-22-2008, 03:18 PM
#400
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: tomcat0818
hi thanks for all the in info on the formost 150 me and a guy i new is going to go fly his formost 150 and he only did 2 small
mods to it i will let you all know how it go and we will be tapeing it i will take some pics be for take off and his have a jetcat p60 in it
hi thanks for all the in info on the formost 150 me and a guy i new is going to go fly his formost 150 and he only did 2 small
mods to it i will let you all know how it go and we will be tapeing it i will take some pics be for take off and his have a jetcat p60 in it
If your friend has done "only 2 small mods", and has not heeded the advice of others in this thread who are working VERY hard on the behalf of all of us to keep the hobby safe, then he is being IRRESPONSIBLE and NEGLIGENT. Those of us who are warning you mean you no insult. We are trying desperately to protect you, your friend, surrounding bystanders, surrounding property,and the hobby.
Your video tape may wind up as evidence in a courtroom. This is a hobby but THESE JETS ARE NOT TOYS. Please please don't fly that airplane.