What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
02-06-2008, 07:24 AM
#51
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
This kit comes fromt he same guys that make the Falcon 120, and Yes their glue is crap, but their wood usually holds together, so one might just strengthen the glue joints while the whole thing is still built, and then it should be able to withstand normal flight loads.
And yet, if you happen to have a hard landing, the whole assembly would pop out.. ask me how i know !
And yet, if you happen to have a hard landing, the whole assembly would pop out.. ask me how i know !
02-06-2008, 07:42 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
You guys might be right about the Hitec HS81MG, I have no idea about their quality or performance, I only selected those based on what the shop still had and the figures printed on the pack. I have no experience with Hitec myself.
If you could make me a good suggestion based on true experience, I will follow it ! The servo should have the size of the HS81MG ; Futaba S9650 is too thick.
Nicolas.
If you could make me a good suggestion based on true experience, I will follow it ! The servo should have the size of the HS81MG ; Futaba S9650 is too thick.
Nicolas.
02-06-2008, 07:51 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: digitech
i had a go today on our proto formost.....[:-]
this will NEVER hold anything
all "epoxy"looks like CA chinese way
the cool part about it i dissasembled the whole model in 5 minutes
it is now back to kit form..
all those parts need to be exchanged if this needs to carry a turbine model.
the front retract was hung up in 2 wooden balsa blocks that where only glued to the outershell not even carried by a bearer..
nicolas i am sorry , but it will not survive a landing or take of from grass..
i will need to redo the whole front section , and hope the chinese copy our stuff
i had a go today on our proto formost.....[:-]
this will NEVER hold anything
all "epoxy"looks like CA chinese way
the cool part about it i dissasembled the whole model in 5 minutes
it is now back to kit form..
all those parts need to be exchanged if this needs to carry a turbine model.
the front retract was hung up in 2 wooden balsa blocks that where only glued to the outershell not even carried by a bearer..
nicolas i am sorry , but it will not survive a landing or take of from grass..
i will need to redo the whole front section , and hope the chinese copy our stuff
Flight testing Saturday is postponed !
You cannot see the woodwork from the cockpit bay but I am glad you disassembled it.
I will do the same and design some new bulkheads with AutoCad, but this time CNC milled in 3mm and 5 mm high quality Russian birch plywood.
Balsa blocks for the retract mount ???? Unsupported ??? [&:] I have to see that one too ! [8D] Where's my little CA hammer ?
Nicolas.
02-06-2008, 08:01 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: i3dm
About the CF tube - how much does one of these cost ? just to be able to take its price into account with the kit.
And about assembling the wings, its most likely to be done with a bolt going into the wing tube ! try to find if they drilled a hole in a hardwood block somewhere along the wing tube line.
About the CF tube - how much does one of these cost ? just to be able to take its price into account with the kit.
And about assembling the wings, its most likely to be done with a bolt going into the wing tube ! try to find if they drilled a hole in a hardwood block somewhere along the wing tube line.
Composite company R&G from Germany made also midpart rods in solid carbon + epoxy resin with a moulded-in dihedral with an angle of your preference... Will check that this evening.
I'll check again that hardwood block in the wing, but I think this kit holds the wings together by a long steel rod of some 3 mm, as there are insert nuts in the wing roots. Not sure if this will be usuable with the turbine and tanks making that area inside the fuselage rather inaccessible. But that is not such a problem with some good creative thinking how to join the wings...
Nicolas.
02-06-2008, 09:05 AM
#56
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: SpiderJets
MAYDAY MAYDAY !!!
Flight testing Saturday is postponed !
You cannot see the woodwork from the cockpit bay but I am glad you disassembled it.
I will do the same and design some new bulkheads with AutoCad, but this time CNC milled in 3mm and 5 mm high quality Russian birch plywood.
Balsa blocks for the retract mount ???? Unsupported ??? [&:] I have to see that one too ! [8D] Where's my little CA hammer ?
Nicolas.
ORIGINAL: digitech
i had a go today on our proto formost.....[:-]
this will NEVER hold anything
all "epoxy"looks like CA chinese way
the cool part about it i dissasembled the whole model in 5 minutes
it is now back to kit form..
all those parts need to be exchanged if this needs to carry a turbine model.
the front retract was hung up in 2 wooden balsa blocks that where only glued to the outershell not even carried by a bearer..
nicolas i am sorry , but it will not survive a landing or take of from grass..
i will need to redo the whole front section , and hope the chinese copy our stuff
i had a go today on our proto formost.....[:-]
this will NEVER hold anything
all "epoxy"looks like CA chinese way
the cool part about it i dissasembled the whole model in 5 minutes
it is now back to kit form..
all those parts need to be exchanged if this needs to carry a turbine model.
the front retract was hung up in 2 wooden balsa blocks that where only glued to the outershell not even carried by a bearer..
nicolas i am sorry , but it will not survive a landing or take of from grass..
i will need to redo the whole front section , and hope the chinese copy our stuff
Flight testing Saturday is postponed !
You cannot see the woodwork from the cockpit bay but I am glad you disassembled it.
I will do the same and design some new bulkheads with AutoCad, but this time CNC milled in 3mm and 5 mm high quality Russian birch plywood.
Balsa blocks for the retract mount ???? Unsupported ??? [&:] I have to see that one too ! [8D] Where's my little CA hammer ?
Nicolas.
no hammer needed a gentle squeeze and all falls out like a giant puzzle
id3m:
forget it , this wont go anywhere the falcon is better then this (i sell them)
this one is all the way made up from 2mm some kind of sheet with furtalizer between them i think.
i used my lasercutter and had a bad smell and on even the lowest setting it would cut thru.
Nicolas and me will have a talk tonight and see if we can make a "Turbine conversion for dummies" for it
i hope the chinese read this and start copying[:-]
02-06-2008, 09:32 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: digitech
that is the least of our problems....
ORIGINAL: i3dm
Yes, holding the wings together is not supposed to be too difficult, even if you have to make your own design for it.
Keep the info coming.
Yes, holding the wings together is not supposed to be too difficult, even if you have to make your own design for it.
Keep the info coming.
that is the least of our problems....
But seriously now, I believe with some good new design, like perhaps another RTF bulkhead conversion set (these seem to be so easy removable anyway !), this could be a great jet.
The low price justifies a LOT of margin for some new bulkheads plus a good selection of drop in quality turbine related parts etc.
I would not mind myself paying 200 euro for a kit with lousy bulkheads and spending an extra 100 for top quality custom made internal parts. With some 300 euro, I could have a top notch jet....
Still, we are not finished yet, maybe more surprises are coming. ('Love the challenge [8D] !)
Nicolas.
02-06-2008, 02:25 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Here's the thread about the conversion of the Formost 150 to turbine power on RC Modelers Singapore.
Register first !
http://www.rc-ms.com/forums1/index.php?topic=2968.0
Register first !
http://www.rc-ms.com/forums1/index.php?topic=2968.0
02-06-2008, 02:42 PM
#61
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Well since this is a coomerang copy, the conversion isnt supposed to be all that difficult.
About the wood - i dont know what they used on this one, but this DOES in fact come fromt he same guys who make the Falcon 120.
All the Falcon bulkheads are glued just using a tiny bit of spit as well, they all come out with a touch of a hand.
About the wood - i dont know what they used on this one, but this DOES in fact come fromt he same guys who make the Falcon 120.
All the Falcon bulkheads are glued just using a tiny bit of spit as well, they all come out with a touch of a hand.
02-07-2008, 03:28 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: i3dm
Well since this is a coomerang copy, the conversion isnt supposed to be all that difficult.
About the wood - i dont know what they used on this one, but this DOES in fact come fromt he same guys who make the Falcon 120.
All the Falcon bulkheads are glued just using a tiny bit of spit as well, they all come out with a touch of a hand.
Well since this is a coomerang copy, the conversion isnt supposed to be all that difficult.
About the wood - i dont know what they used on this one, but this DOES in fact come fromt he same guys who make the Falcon 120.
All the Falcon bulkheads are glued just using a tiny bit of spit as well, they all come out with a touch of a hand.
....Spit ????.... LMAO !
Frankly speaking, for me, I do not care about replacing any bulkheads because the CA "spit" fillets had to be re-done with epoxy resin anyway... As long as the outside finishing (paint, fillings, covering) isn't affected, it's fine with me.
02-07-2008, 03:39 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
I took a close look at the videos of the Singapore Formosts and they have the servos in the tailbooms mounted horizontally through the servo hatches.
This way, they avoided the limitation of not enough depth or weak servos.
I think I'll do the same, and use the Futaba S9650's... More safe than slim servos...
This way, they avoided the limitation of not enough depth or weak servos.
I think I'll do the same, and use the Futaba S9650's... More safe than slim servos...
02-07-2008, 06:14 AM
#64
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: SpiderJets
I took a close look at the videos of the Singapore Formosts and they have the servos in the tailbooms mounted horizontally through the servo hatches.
This way, they avoided the limitation of not enough depth or weak servos.
I think I'll do the same, and use the Futaba S9650's... More safe than slim servos...
I took a close look at the videos of the Singapore Formosts and they have the servos in the tailbooms mounted horizontally through the servo hatches.
This way, they avoided the limitation of not enough depth or weak servos.
I think I'll do the same, and use the Futaba S9650's... More safe than slim servos...
Good idea !
02-08-2008, 02:25 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Spent a little more time on the Formost...
Installed the aileron servos, wings are ready now.
Opened on the stab the cover for accessing the tailboom connection, as saw that the ribs in the stab had nice oval openings. This way, would be easy to install a mid elevator servo as there is no problem for the servo lead. I cutted an opening after feeling where the ribs and the spars were, and installed a single Futaba BLS451 there too. Still have to glue some balsa and a thin plywood cover perhaps, but basically I am done here too.
The hinges in the kit are the flat ones which you have to glue with thick ZAP, all slots are done, was less than 5 minutes work.
Christos (Mister Cyprus in person !) arrived yesterday evening with his SimJet 1200, fifteen minutes later this one was installed too, it was a drop fit.
Too bad he forgot to bring along his SimJet Data Terminal [:@] or we could fly it tomorrow anyway and see how well the standard set-up holds together with some basic epoxy here and there.
And about the "spit" thing, you are right, everything pops out with no effort, all internal bulkheads should be glued all over again with epoxy and Aeropoxy !!!
Even the wood does not hold together, never seen anything like this...
But... I decided to go for the long lasting way and replace in the internals what assures me a long enjoyable future with this jet.
I have now some 7 hours building time on it (ONLY !).
Installed the aileron servos, wings are ready now.
Opened on the stab the cover for accessing the tailboom connection, as saw that the ribs in the stab had nice oval openings. This way, would be easy to install a mid elevator servo as there is no problem for the servo lead. I cutted an opening after feeling where the ribs and the spars were, and installed a single Futaba BLS451 there too. Still have to glue some balsa and a thin plywood cover perhaps, but basically I am done here too.
The hinges in the kit are the flat ones which you have to glue with thick ZAP, all slots are done, was less than 5 minutes work.
Christos (Mister Cyprus in person !) arrived yesterday evening with his SimJet 1200, fifteen minutes later this one was installed too, it was a drop fit.
Too bad he forgot to bring along his SimJet Data Terminal [:@] or we could fly it tomorrow anyway and see how well the standard set-up holds together with some basic epoxy here and there.
And about the "spit" thing, you are right, everything pops out with no effort, all internal bulkheads should be glued all over again with epoxy and Aeropoxy !!!
Even the wood does not hold together, never seen anything like this...
But... I decided to go for the long lasting way and replace in the internals what assures me a long enjoyable future with this jet.
I have now some 7 hours building time on it (ONLY !).
02-08-2008, 02:32 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
All what I still have to do is to install and connect the two rudder servos (Futaba S9650) to have the basics completed.
However, I will design a new set of hassle-free internal bulkheads next week, with a single nice round fuel tank of 2 liters. No double tank with T's. The simpler the set-up, the better.
BTW. The plastic hardware in the kit looks not convincing to me, quite fragile for jets ; I replaced the standard plastic control horns with some very nice F3A stuff from MK which I still had on hand. Now the pushrods and links are machined, ballraced and fluorescent. [8D] With the BLS451's, this resulted in incredible steering precision and speed.
Nicolas.
However, I will design a new set of hassle-free internal bulkheads next week, with a single nice round fuel tank of 2 liters. No double tank with T's. The simpler the set-up, the better.
BTW. The plastic hardware in the kit looks not convincing to me, quite fragile for jets ; I replaced the standard plastic control horns with some very nice F3A stuff from MK which I still had on hand. Now the pushrods and links are machined, ballraced and fluorescent. [8D] With the BLS451's, this resulted in incredible steering precision and speed.
Nicolas.
02-08-2008, 03:07 AM
#67
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: SpiderJets
Spent a little more time on the Formost...
Installed the aileron servos, wings are ready now.
Opened on the stab the cover for accessing the tailboom connection, as saw that the ribs in the stab had nice oval openings. This way, would be easy to install a mid elevator servo as there is no problem for the servo lead. I cutted an opening after feeling where the ribs and the spars were, and installed a single Futaba BLS451 there too. Still have to glue some balsa and a thin plywood cover perhaps, but basically I am done here too.
The hinges in the kit are the flat ones which you have to glue with thick ZAP, all slots are done, was less than 5 minutes work.
Christos (Mister Cyprus in person !) arrived yesterday evening with his SimJet 1200, fifteen minutes later this one was installed too, it was a drop fit.
Too bad he forgot to bring along his SimJet Data Terminal [:@] or we could fly it tomorrow anyway and see how well the standard set-up holds together with some basic epoxy here and there.
And about the "spit" thing, you are right, everything pops out with no effort, all internal bulkheads should be glued all over again with epoxy and Aeropoxy !!!
Even the wood does not hold together, never seen anything like this...
But... I decided to go for the long lasting way and replace in the internals what assures me a long enjoyable future with this jet.
I have now some 7 hours building time on it (ONLY !).
Spent a little more time on the Formost...
Installed the aileron servos, wings are ready now.
Opened on the stab the cover for accessing the tailboom connection, as saw that the ribs in the stab had nice oval openings. This way, would be easy to install a mid elevator servo as there is no problem for the servo lead. I cutted an opening after feeling where the ribs and the spars were, and installed a single Futaba BLS451 there too. Still have to glue some balsa and a thin plywood cover perhaps, but basically I am done here too.
The hinges in the kit are the flat ones which you have to glue with thick ZAP, all slots are done, was less than 5 minutes work.
Christos (Mister Cyprus in person !) arrived yesterday evening with his SimJet 1200, fifteen minutes later this one was installed too, it was a drop fit.
Too bad he forgot to bring along his SimJet Data Terminal [:@] or we could fly it tomorrow anyway and see how well the standard set-up holds together with some basic epoxy here and there.
And about the "spit" thing, you are right, everything pops out with no effort, all internal bulkheads should be glued all over again with epoxy and Aeropoxy !!!
Even the wood does not hold together, never seen anything like this...
But... I decided to go for the long lasting way and replace in the internals what assures me a long enjoyable future with this jet.
I have now some 7 hours building time on it (ONLY !).
Nicolas if you are using a Gaspar FADEC i got Plenty of terminals here...
i see you have did it anyway by using single servo inside the elevator.
this is ok and plenty of power.
02-08-2008, 12:48 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Sandor,
Yes, the brushless BLS451 has 10,8 kg of torque at 0,10 sec/60° and is extremely precise without comparison !
We have been discussing a lot whether or not we would drive all the way to you tomorrow and have that Data Terminal of yours to set up the ECU, and fly at your field, but finally I decided not to. It is 222 km one way and it is now much more important that Christos can take my (now his) JL L-39 in confidence, well instructed and well packed, with him back to Cyprus next Sunday, instead of doing two things half-half.
Thank you for the tank and your bulkheads, just received, I'll start designing next Monday when I arrive in Asia.
Greetings,
Nicolas.
Yes, the brushless BLS451 has 10,8 kg of torque at 0,10 sec/60° and is extremely precise without comparison !
We have been discussing a lot whether or not we would drive all the way to you tomorrow and have that Data Terminal of yours to set up the ECU, and fly at your field, but finally I decided not to. It is 222 km one way and it is now much more important that Christos can take my (now his) JL L-39 in confidence, well instructed and well packed, with him back to Cyprus next Sunday, instead of doing two things half-half.
Thank you for the tank and your bulkheads, just received, I'll start designing next Monday when I arrive in Asia.
Greetings,
Nicolas.
02-08-2008, 01:39 PM
#69
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: SpiderJets
Sandor,
Yes, the brushless BLS451 has 10,8 kg of torque at 0,10 sec/60° and is extremely precise without comparison !
We have been discussing a lot whether or not we would drive all the way to you tomorrow and have that Data Terminal of yours to set up the ECU, and fly at your field, but finally I decided not to. It is 222 km one way and it is now much more important that Christos can take my (now his) JL L-39 in confidence, well instructed and well packed, with him back to Cyprus next Sunday, instead of doing two things half-half.
Thank you for the tank and your bulkheads, just received, I'll start designing next Monday when I arrive in Asia.
Greetings,
Nicolas.
Sandor,
Yes, the brushless BLS451 has 10,8 kg of torque at 0,10 sec/60° and is extremely precise without comparison !
We have been discussing a lot whether or not we would drive all the way to you tomorrow and have that Data Terminal of yours to set up the ECU, and fly at your field, but finally I decided not to. It is 222 km one way and it is now much more important that Christos can take my (now his) JL L-39 in confidence, well instructed and well packed, with him back to Cyprus next Sunday, instead of doing two things half-half.
Thank you for the tank and your bulkheads, just received, I'll start designing next Monday when I arrive in Asia.
Greetings,
Nicolas.
if you want me to send you one by mail just say so , i got plenty of them.
02-08-2008, 03:14 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Yes Sandor,
Please do it, as stupid me, I forgot to take it out of the box and bag it along with the rest of the stuff. I tried very hard to convince nico to drive to you and spend all Saturday, flying at your airfield
, but, what the hec, I will be packing the L39
Chris
Please do it, as stupid me, I forgot to take it out of the box and bag it along with the rest of the stuff. I tried very hard to convince nico to drive to you and spend all Saturday, flying at your airfield
, but, what the hec, I will be packing the L39Chris
02-08-2008, 03:58 PM
#71
RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: cairoman
Yes Sandor,
Please do it, as stupid me, I forgot to take it out of the box and bag it along with the rest of the stuff. I tried very hard to convince nico to drive to you and spend all Saturday, flying at your airfield, but, what the hec, I will be packing the L39
Chris
Yes Sandor,
Please do it, as stupid me, I forgot to take it out of the box and bag it along with the rest of the stuff. I tried very hard to convince nico to drive to you and spend all Saturday, flying at your airfield
, but, what the hec, I will be packing the L39Chris
no problemo
you can give me yours later when ever we meet or never, i will send him one of mine.
tommorow we will break in my 3.20 meter Pilatus porter with a paint stirrer in the front..
on sunday maybe the velox xl , a bobcat and a few more guys going to the pampa,s on sunday..
if you are still there on sunday , ask nicolas to go there..
02-09-2008, 10:19 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Hi Sandor,
Many greetings from our local Cantina here in the club, no need to send me the Data Terminal, I am out of the country for a week anyway and Christos will send me mine on Monday !
Christos & Nicolas !
Many greetings from our local Cantina here in the club, no need to send me the Data Terminal, I am out of the country for a week anyway and Christos will send me mine on Monday !
Christos & Nicolas !
02-10-2008, 04:48 AM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
ORIGINAL: mowery1
Where can we (USA) get our hands on one of these kits?? I'd like to get one..Thanks for the reply...Rick
Where can we (USA) get our hands on one of these kits?? I'd like to get one..Thanks for the reply...Rick
There are lots of rumours going around worldwide about who will have them but apparantly nobody of these distributors is confirming the availability or coming orders yet.
(Except for Rotor Hobbies Singapore but they took it from the online webshop as long as they did not have received the next batch, expected next week.)
The kit has some weak points but with an expected retail price in the USA of some 300 US$, it's a fixable bargain not to be missed...
Nicolas.
02-10-2008, 06:45 PM
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RE: What do you think of FORMOST 150 ?
Here's the link to R&G Composites, Germany : http://www.r-g.de/en/
CF Tubes are in their downloadable catalogue, on page 180.
Worth mentioning is that these are high strength real CF+epoxy resin tubes, not CF+plastic made by extrusion (= rods like used for flying kites etc).
Main tube of the Formost is a 16mm diameter one, in the kit are two alu pieces of 32 cm length.
Rear tube is a 10mm, and the lengths even shorter than the main one. (forgot to measure it)
To my opinion, best and easiest is to replace ONLY the main tubes with CF ones, and have a 12mm CF ROD (not tube) of 400mm connecting both tube ends and glue the tubes and rod together with Aeropoxy. The inner diameter of the CF tube is 14mm but the "play" will allow to achieve the dihedral of the wings ; fill up the 2mm gap between tube and rod with Aeropoxy (or epoxy resin).
The connecting rod will pass through the front side of the wheel wells, but there is surely enough space to do this.
Leave the rear wing tubes in alu as per the kit.
This is how I will do it next week.
CF Tubes are in their downloadable catalogue, on page 180.
Worth mentioning is that these are high strength real CF+epoxy resin tubes, not CF+plastic made by extrusion (= rods like used for flying kites etc).
Main tube of the Formost is a 16mm diameter one, in the kit are two alu pieces of 32 cm length.
Rear tube is a 10mm, and the lengths even shorter than the main one. (forgot to measure it)
To my opinion, best and easiest is to replace ONLY the main tubes with CF ones, and have a 12mm CF ROD (not tube) of 400mm connecting both tube ends and glue the tubes and rod together with Aeropoxy. The inner diameter of the CF tube is 14mm but the "play" will allow to achieve the dihedral of the wings ; fill up the 2mm gap between tube and rod with Aeropoxy (or epoxy resin).
The connecting rod will pass through the front side of the wheel wells, but there is surely enough space to do this.
Leave the rear wing tubes in alu as per the kit.
This is how I will do it next week.