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Good or bad news?

Old 03-22-2008, 08:52 PM
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JMCJET
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Default Good or bad news?

What do you know about the graupner 868 Mhz IFS ? Graupner says it is far better than the 2.4 Ghz: "...will provide additional advantages over 2.4 Ghz... propagation conditions are better for use on and under water... penetrates carbon fibre fuselages... little aerial, 9 cm long, do not need to be positioned at right-angles...." source: www.graupner-ifs-system.de

And about the 35Mhz and 2.4Ghz simultaneously from acteurope? 7 to 10 km range?

Are we spoiled by manufacturers or shall we suspect of so many good things?

Will the 2.4 Ghz band reach the adult age?

Manufacturers are fighting for the best share of the market or for safety?


What do you think about this?

JMC
Old 03-23-2008, 04:30 AM
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adrian-RCU
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

compare it spec for spec with Spectrum as they are the technology leader
Old 03-23-2008, 06:12 AM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Looks just like the XPS system, made in the USA as well. The same product? - John.
Old 03-23-2008, 07:36 AM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

The IFS system is the same as the XPS system. I am not sure about the universal legality of the 868mHz band? Anyone know?
The ACT system looks very interesting. As I can continue to use my Multiplex 4000 Tx's with the ACT system I will probably buy one of these.
Regards,

John
Old 03-23-2008, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?


ORIGINAL: adrian-RCU

compare it spec for spec with Spectrum as they are the technology leader

The validity of that statement depends on what you mean by "technology leader." If you mean the one that marketed a 2.4 GHz system first, then yes, it would be Spektrum. If you mean the one that actually has superior technology, then the jury is still out on that and although its taken longer to reach the market, it certainly appears at this point that the Futaba FASST system is far superior to Spektrum.

Bob
Old 03-23-2008, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Bob,
I would appreciate hearing your explanation as to why you feel that the FASST system is superior.
Thanks,
Bob
Old 03-23-2008, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Pop corn and beer

Chris
Old 03-23-2008, 03:15 PM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

The FASST system is without a doubt rock solid in the RF department, and frequency hopping is used by the military because it is so good.
I have yet to hear of anyone who has had any issues with signal loss on the FASST system I even pleaded for negative feedback but got none.
There are many threads relating to signal problems on the Spektrum system.

The FASST system has suffered bad press recently on the 6 and 7 channel units because of the zero GUID issue, but this is not a refection on the RF link, just a major screw up at Futaba, which has/is being resolved.

The Spektrum system does, without a doubt, work well, however, to do so it needs multiple rx’s the FASST does not.

If the Spektrum system is better and more advanced technology, why are they developing the next generation? Which is, I am informed, to be frequency hopping the same as Futaba.

MHO


ORIGINAL: JMCJET

What do you know about the graupner 868 Mhz IFS ? Graupner says it is far better than the 2.4 Ghz: "...will provide additional advantages over 2.4 Ghz... Propagation conditions are better for use on and under water... penetrates carbon fibre fuselages... little aerial, 9 cm long, do not need to be positioned at right-angles...." source: www.graupner-ifs-system.de
I am not sure what to make of all that, the 'on and under water' does not really effect us.
I have found no issues with 2.4 penetrating carbon fuselages.
Similar length aerial to 2.4, again not sure what the advantage of that is.
The right angles issue is just to give some signal diversity to the set up, 2.4 could run on a single aerial but it would not be so effective.
It is also true on all frequencies but not so important as the frequency drops. I always try to have my 35 meg aerial bent on its path to ensure a better signal in most orientations.
It all sounds very 'advertising driven to me'

And about the 35Mhz and 2.4Ghz simultaneously from acteurope? 7 to 10 km range?
Not sure how they are getting that sort of range without bumping the TX output over the legal limit. Are they quoting ground range?
Are we spoiled by manufacturers or shall we suspect of so many good things?

Will the 2.4 Ghz band reach the adult age?

Manufacturers are fighting for the best share of the market or for safety?


What do you think about this?

JMC
2.4 is here for the foreseeable future IMHO, the manufacturers have invested heavily in it and it works well, from what i have read, at Florida Jets this year, 2.4 was prevalent and the TX pound only had 5 or 6 TX's in it.

Not having to have a peg (pin) and not being able to be shot down by an absent minded person is a massive advantage over our old 35/72 meg systems.
Is there room for another on 868 Mhz? I do not know but I think not, only time will tell.

Paul


Old 03-23-2008, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

..


Old 03-23-2008, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Bob,

Paul said it all perfectly. I think its very interesting that there is a "2nd generation" Spektrum system under development. All of their marketing hipe about the "DSS" system which is basically an ad-hoc hybrid between pure FHSS and DSSS never really rang true to me. One of the things you learn after 20 years in engineering is, if a technology like spread spectrum is as mature as it is and somebody comes in and says "we have a way that works better," you really need to be very skeptical. Spektrum's DSS transmission protocol is NOT in fact, better than FHSS, its just simpler and was lower cost to implement quickly...

Now I guess they are going back and doing it right...

Bob
Old 03-23-2008, 07:42 PM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I will be looking at a new radio system in the near future so a better understanding of SS if greatly appreciated.
Bob
Old 03-24-2008, 04:02 AM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Bob

yes Spektrum leads, still - as the other guys had to jump around so much with their systems not to loose market share and consumer face related to 2.4 - I dont need to punt a brand but as a Futaba man for years(my dad from almost rc inception)it was funny how they jumped and had to prove their technology almost to late- as for the spektrum issues, yes, there were a few but resolved by understanding the need for constant power supply mostly with the digital high torque servos etc and everybody benefited from this understanding- currently the others have their own issues to sort and XPS as per many forums have some real issues - but as you said 2.4 is here to stay and a marvelous technology for us to benefit from and all manufacturers will develop their systems so why an issue if spektrum is on generation 2 - its good if they develop and improve, no??

I have used 2.4 now for more than a year without any issues in giant scale and jets!!
Old 03-24-2008, 06:39 AM
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ORIGINAL: adrian-RCU

Bob

[snip]

so why an issue if spektrum is on generation 2 - its good if they develop and improve, no??

I have used 2.4 now for more than a year without any issues in giant scale and jets!!
The issue is, if Spektrum is going to come out with a FHSS system that doesn't require multiple receivers, a data logger to look at fades so that you can fiddle with receiver placement, etc. (like the FASST system does now) what happens to the investment that users have made in the 1st generation system? Personally, I'm glad I waited until the Futaba system came out and it was done right from the start...

Bob
Old 03-24-2008, 08:17 AM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?


ORIGINAL: rhklenke

I'm glad I waited until the Futaba system came out and it was done right from the start...

Bob

Me too, I love my Futaba FASST system and I'm not looking back no matter what comes out.....
Old 03-24-2008, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Valid statements, but I am very happy with the Spektrum module system in my 10X.
I typically buy a high end radio about every 6 years so it is a perfect interim solution I feel.
Bob


ORIGINAL: JetflyerJ


ORIGINAL: rhklenke

I'm glad I waited until the Futaba system came out and it was done right from the start...

Bob

Me too, I love my Futaba FASST system and I'm not looking back no matter what comes out.....
Old 03-24-2008, 08:35 AM
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ORIGINAL: R_Belluomini

Valid statements, but I am very happy with the Spektrum module system in my 10X.
I typically buy a high end radio about every 6 years so it is a perfect interim solution I feel.
Bob
No argument on that, I used the DX-6 for awhile too. However, if you read the Spektrum marketing hype:

http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/Technology/useDSM.aspx

they state that their solution is the optimum one for RC use. Even a cursory look at the FASST system shows that is simply not the case. They also say that their system is more difficult to implement, and that is also not true. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Too much "snake oil"...

Bob
Old 03-24-2008, 12:07 PM
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Default RE: Good or bad news?

Snake oil .. like "ABC+W" to paper over not having dual conversion RX's, then eventually adopting them? <vbg>

Dave

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