Composite ARF Tucano Build
#251
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Slagelse, DENMARK
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Hi guys,
I'm the guy Beave is refering to - that reminds me that I need to get the static RPM for you, Beave. Have patience, i'll get them when spring arrives.
I have about 25 flights on the Tucano with JC V3.
I'm running with 170.000 RPM and 8500 prop RPM. I'm running a 24/12 prop but will change it to a 24/14. The 24/12 is a little too noisy.
The Biela props for turboprops are rated to 10.000 RPM, Beave so that shouldn't be any problem.
Martin
I'm the guy Beave is refering to - that reminds me that I need to get the static RPM for you, Beave. Have patience, i'll get them when spring arrives.
I have about 25 flights on the Tucano with JC V3.
I'm running with 170.000 RPM and 8500 prop RPM. I'm running a 24/12 prop but will change it to a 24/14. The 24/12 is a little too noisy.
The Biela props for turboprops are rated to 10.000 RPM, Beave so that shouldn't be any problem.
Martin
#253
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
Received 26 Likes
on
24 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Hi guys,
Yes, hard to believe, but nobody who has moved the c of g forward with the magic 12oz has yet come back with the new balancing position.
Please guys, if you added the 12oz to your as-per-the-manual c fo g, can you please let us all know where your Tucano is now balancing. If one of you can be so kind, it will help everyone still building their Tucano to try and move stuff forward so that the additional 12 oz can possibly be saved.
Just empty the tanks and get a mate at the field to pick up the plane with you, check where it balance with the wheels down, and take a measurement for us. A measurement from either the leading egde, or the trailing edge of the wing - at either the wing tip or wing root will be fantastic.
BTW, all of you that say you balanced on the wing retaining bolt - this position is even further back (aft) than the suggested c of g in the manual. So I am pretty sure the wing retaining bolt is not the position after the 12 oz had been added.
Cheers,
JanR
Yes, hard to believe, but nobody who has moved the c of g forward with the magic 12oz has yet come back with the new balancing position.
Please guys, if you added the 12oz to your as-per-the-manual c fo g, can you please let us all know where your Tucano is now balancing. If one of you can be so kind, it will help everyone still building their Tucano to try and move stuff forward so that the additional 12 oz can possibly be saved.
Just empty the tanks and get a mate at the field to pick up the plane with you, check where it balance with the wheels down, and take a measurement for us. A measurement from either the leading egde, or the trailing edge of the wing - at either the wing tip or wing root will be fantastic.
BTW, all of you that say you balanced on the wing retaining bolt - this position is even further back (aft) than the suggested c of g in the manual. So I am pretty sure the wing retaining bolt is not the position after the 12 oz had been added.
Cheers,
JanR
#254
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: RobinaQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Just to add another voice to Jan's request... I'm right now mapping out my gear plate and equipment layout, so I would LOVE to get this information too. Much appreciated (in advance) to anyone who can get it for us.
#255
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sale, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Colin
I have mine on the wing bolt which is real close to the factory mark (once extrapolatedas factory measurement is based on wing tip). I did not add any weight to the plane and as you may remember fitted the batteries just in front of the wing bolts to balance her out.
I have mine on the wing bolt which is real close to the factory mark (once extrapolatedas factory measurement is based on wing tip). I did not add any weight to the plane and as you may remember fitted the batteries just in front of the wing bolts to balance her out.
#256
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
Received 26 Likes
on
24 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Shane,
How about doing Colin and I a big favour? Please add 12 oz to the nose of your Tucano (just taped onto the outside) and then let us know where it balances.
Cheers mate,
JanR
How about doing Colin and I a big favour? Please add 12 oz to the nose of your Tucano (just taped onto the outside) and then let us know where it balances.
Cheers mate,
JanR
#259
My Feedback: (27)
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Because the fuse is so long that the paint on the tail surfaces move the C of G farther back unless you are careful. That is the case with one of the new Tucano's I'm helping a Mate fly. After he painted it, the C of G moved way aft.
Strange but true...
Beave
Strange but true...
Beave
#260
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
Received 26 Likes
on
24 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
ORIGINAL: bevar
Because the fuse is so long that the paint on the tail surfaces move the C of G farther back unless you are careful. That is the case with one of the new Tucano's I'm helping a Mate fly. After he painted it, the C of G moved way aft.
Strange but true...
Beave
Because the fuse is so long that the paint on the tail surfaces move the C of G farther back unless you are careful. That is the case with one of the new Tucano's I'm helping a Mate fly. After he painted it, the C of G moved way aft.
Strange but true...
Beave
A well known fact to all the longtime builders of RC planes ............... and surely he has to add more weight to the nose and bring the c of g back to where it should be ????
This is exactly why we need to get the correct balancing point for these birds ............. who knows the wing retaining bolt may yet prove to be correct..............
Cheers,
JanR
#261
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Stockholm, SWEDEN
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Sorry guys but I can ask you a question?.
would be possible to know what to do with the toucan with Jet '.
although this aircraft powered by a turbine engine to a propeller!.
would be possible to know what to do with the toucan with Jet '.
although this aircraft powered by a turbine engine to a propeller!.
#262
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sale, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Why Jan??
My Tucano has had heaps of flights and is perfectly balanced, rotation is a non event and landings are just sweet, why would you want to move away from factory specs is it works!!! If you are so convinced that YOU need the 12 oz then do the cg as per factory then stick the 12 oz on and then do your maiden flight .
My Tucano has had heaps of flights and is perfectly balanced, rotation is a non event and landings are just sweet, why would you want to move away from factory specs is it works!!! If you are so convinced that YOU need the 12 oz then do the cg as per factory then stick the 12 oz on and then do your maiden flight .
#263
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
Received 26 Likes
on
24 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
ORIGINAL: Aussie Bart
Why Jan??
My Tucano has had heaps of flights and is perfectly balanced, rotation is a non event and landings are just sweet, why would you want to move away from factory specs is it works!!! If you are so convinced that YOU need the 12 oz then do the cg as per factory then stick the 12 oz on and then do your maiden flight .
Why Jan??
My Tucano has had heaps of flights and is perfectly balanced, rotation is a non event and landings are just sweet, why would you want to move away from factory specs is it works!!! If you are so convinced that YOU need the 12 oz then do the cg as per factory then stick the 12 oz on and then do your maiden flight .
If you look at some of the earlier posts in this thread, you will see that there are a number of guys that have done exactly what you suggest I do - and they maintain that the Tucano flies better that way than with the manual c of g.
If this is the case, I would like to build my Tucano with the same balancing point (as if it had the 12oz added), but without the additional 12 oz's.
Hope that explains my question.
Cheers,
JanR
#264
My Feedback: (27)
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Shane/Bart,
As I have said before, the Tucano flies OK with the C of G at the factory setting, but is a completely different plane with the 12 OZ of weight in the nose. I have over 200 flights with Tucanos and have maidened quite a few including mine where the C of G was set as directed and it flew as if it were tail heavy. 12 to 16 ounces transformed it into a completely different bird.
Watch my videos (and keep in mind that they were made with a less powerful engine than I have now) and if your Tucano flies like mine...well...you did not balance your plane correctly and have it set forward like it needs to be...not where the book said it should be.
Cheers,
Beave
http://www.f18superhornet.com/Tucano.htm
As I have said before, the Tucano flies OK with the C of G at the factory setting, but is a completely different plane with the 12 OZ of weight in the nose. I have over 200 flights with Tucanos and have maidened quite a few including mine where the C of G was set as directed and it flew as if it were tail heavy. 12 to 16 ounces transformed it into a completely different bird.
Watch my videos (and keep in mind that they were made with a less powerful engine than I have now) and if your Tucano flies like mine...well...you did not balance your plane correctly and have it set forward like it needs to be...not where the book said it should be.
Cheers,
Beave
http://www.f18superhornet.com/Tucano.htm
ORIGINAL: Aussie Bart
Why Jan??
My Tucano has had heaps of flights and is perfectly balanced, rotation is a non event and landings are just sweet, why would you want to move away from factory specs is it works!!! If you are so convinced that YOU need the 12 oz then do the cg as per factory then stick the 12 oz on and then do your maiden flight .
Why Jan??
My Tucano has had heaps of flights and is perfectly balanced, rotation is a non event and landings are just sweet, why would you want to move away from factory specs is it works!!! If you are so convinced that YOU need the 12 oz then do the cg as per factory then stick the 12 oz on and then do your maiden flight .
#265
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: RobinaQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Let's not forget that C of G position is very much personal preference. Some people prefer a more forward C of G, others more rearward. What one pilot sees as the "perfect" C of G might be anything but for another. The fact that amongst the experienced pilots here, some are flying it at the wing bolt and find it great, and yet others are flying it forward of that and are equally happy (after trying both) attests to that. There is not a right or wrong here.
If Jan generally flys his aircraft forward of factory recommended settings (and I know Jan, he has been flying jets for many, many years and has more experience than most of us will ever get, and is an excellent pilot), then his request for the balance point with 12oz in the nose is well founded, for his particular style.
Hopefully someone can reply with the requested information :-)
If Jan generally flys his aircraft forward of factory recommended settings (and I know Jan, he has been flying jets for many, many years and has more experience than most of us will ever get, and is an excellent pilot), then his request for the balance point with 12oz in the nose is well founded, for his particular style.
Hopefully someone can reply with the requested information :-)
#266
My Feedback: (27)
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Colin,
I agree that C of G is a lot of times "pilot preference" but with the Tucano...not so much. With an aft C of G...it flies borderline poorly. Very tail low, fairly sensitive and "plows" through the air. It really makes a difference if engine out. If you lose the engine, the plane will literally fall out of air (because the tail will simply drop). You have to really dump the nose over to keep it flying and with the prop windmilling it's even worse. I have done quite a few dead sticks with both aft and forward C of G and believe me...it's a completely different bird with the forward C of G in an emergency. I actually had 3 dead sticks in the past 3 weeks with my Mate's Tucano so I am pretty current. The first one was with an aft CG and the last one was with a forward CG (we have added a total of 24 ounces in this one) and it's now on rails and does not drop the tail when power off.
Beave
I agree that C of G is a lot of times "pilot preference" but with the Tucano...not so much. With an aft C of G...it flies borderline poorly. Very tail low, fairly sensitive and "plows" through the air. It really makes a difference if engine out. If you lose the engine, the plane will literally fall out of air (because the tail will simply drop). You have to really dump the nose over to keep it flying and with the prop windmilling it's even worse. I have done quite a few dead sticks with both aft and forward C of G and believe me...it's a completely different bird with the forward C of G in an emergency. I actually had 3 dead sticks in the past 3 weeks with my Mate's Tucano so I am pretty current. The first one was with an aft CG and the last one was with a forward CG (we have added a total of 24 ounces in this one) and it's now on rails and does not drop the tail when power off.
Beave
#267
My Feedback: (52)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
A bit off topic...
What is the recommended prop size and pitch for a JetCat SPT5 v3. JetCat website refers to 55lbs of thrust at 27" prop at 7,000 RPM. I see some are running 24" props with the SPT5 v3.
Recommendations please...
Iwill be installing this in a Turbo Raven.
Thanks,
John
What is the recommended prop size and pitch for a JetCat SPT5 v3. JetCat website refers to 55lbs of thrust at 27" prop at 7,000 RPM. I see some are running 24" props with the SPT5 v3.
Recommendations please...
Iwill be installing this in a Turbo Raven.
Thanks,
John
#269
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
Received 26 Likes
on
24 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Hi guys,
My Tucano is finish. Colin gave me a hand today and we gave the new JetCat it's first run. With the Biela 24 x 12 3 bladed Turbo Prop I was getting only 5750 rpm even with 166300 rpm on the turbine. All the quoted prop rpm in earlier posts must be based on rpm in the air. It also seem to me that the Engle props are more efficient, but I suppose it will all prove itself in flight.
With lights, smoke installation and complete custom cockpit including panels and two full length pilots all up, the empty dry weight is 20.4kgs/ 44.9lbs. without any added weight it balanced exactly on the wing retaining bolt and I will move the C of G forward by 10 to 15mm for the first flight (this can be achieved by adding 8oz to the nose area).
Thanks for all the help, suggestions and observations from all of you.
Cheers,
JanR
My Tucano is finish. Colin gave me a hand today and we gave the new JetCat it's first run. With the Biela 24 x 12 3 bladed Turbo Prop I was getting only 5750 rpm even with 166300 rpm on the turbine. All the quoted prop rpm in earlier posts must be based on rpm in the air. It also seem to me that the Engle props are more efficient, but I suppose it will all prove itself in flight.
With lights, smoke installation and complete custom cockpit including panels and two full length pilots all up, the empty dry weight is 20.4kgs/ 44.9lbs. without any added weight it balanced exactly on the wing retaining bolt and I will move the C of G forward by 10 to 15mm for the first flight (this can be achieved by adding 8oz to the nose area).
Thanks for all the help, suggestions and observations from all of you.
Cheers,
JanR
#270
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sale, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Jan
I am running the Engle 24 x 14 which as Ali points out is far more efficient. Ground RPM is 6,000 and unloaded in the air it is 7,100, gas gen is still set to 165 k.
I am running the Engle 24 x 14 which as Ali points out is far more efficient. Ground RPM is 6,000 and unloaded in the air it is 7,100, gas gen is still set to 165 k.
#271
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: RobinaQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Your Tucano is looking fantastic Jan. Engine started beautifully first time. Your attention to detail has made for a fantastic looking Tucano and a beautifully neat and effective internal install, many ideas from which I am shamelessly borrowing for mine!
Cheers,
Colin
Cheers,
Colin
#272
My Feedback: (12)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sorocaba, , BRAZIL
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Hello guys,
My Tucano just crashed on the 3rd flight, engine quit on a low power pass right over the runaway. The damage was now substantial but working with composite is not easy. I was using the Jetcat V3. Very sad. I will post more pictures later. We did not change any factory settings on the ECU, was told by a local builder that some changes needed to be made, any input? Well, lets get to work on rebelling it.
By the way, I installed a hydraulic system, it works like a charm, perfect.
Best,
My Tucano just crashed on the 3rd flight, engine quit on a low power pass right over the runaway. The damage was now substantial but working with composite is not easy. I was using the Jetcat V3. Very sad. I will post more pictures later. We did not change any factory settings on the ECU, was told by a local builder that some changes needed to be made, any input? Well, lets get to work on rebelling it.
By the way, I installed a hydraulic system, it works like a charm, perfect.
Best,
#273
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Slagelse, DENMARK
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Sorry to hear about your crash
From the pictures the damages seems limited to the front of the cowling - I would buy a new lower cowling.
How do the wings look?
I'm running the V3 with factory settings in the ECU - my power turbine was actually set to 160.000 RPM coming from the JC , but that was dialed up to max. after JC's approval.JC never explained why it was set at 160.000 RPM.From the pictures the damages seems limited to the front of the cowling - I would buy a new lower cowling.
How do the wings look?
Did you check the last off condition in the ECU? That would give you an idea to why the engine died.
Martin
#274
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,469
Received 26 Likes
on
24 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
Ditto, very sorry to hear about your crash.
I now have 4 flights on my Tucano and all is well. I moved the factory c of g forward by 15 mm and the plane has a nice tail up flying attitude. I needed 4 mm of down elevator compensation with full flap and about half that with first flap. On my last flight the engine revved up to 166500 and the prop (Biela 24x12 turbo prop) maxed at 7500 rpm. All my ECU settings are still the JC factory ones.
Great plane, definately a keeper. Just wish CARF would improve their quality control, provide more ARTF for the price and get improved landing gear units.
Cheers,
Jan
I now have 4 flights on my Tucano and all is well. I moved the factory c of g forward by 15 mm and the plane has a nice tail up flying attitude. I needed 4 mm of down elevator compensation with full flap and about half that with first flap. On my last flight the engine revved up to 166500 and the prop (Biela 24x12 turbo prop) maxed at 7500 rpm. All my ECU settings are still the JC factory ones.
Great plane, definately a keeper. Just wish CARF would improve their quality control, provide more ARTF for the price and get improved landing gear units.
Cheers,
Jan
#275
My Feedback: (12)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sorocaba, , BRAZIL
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Composite ARF Tucano Build
ORIGINAL: martin_wam
Did you check the last off condition in the ECU? That would give you an idea to why the engine died.
Martin
Sorry to hear about your crash
From the pictures the damages seems limited to the front of the cowling - I would buy a new lower cowling.
How do the wings look?
I'm running the V3 with factory settings in the ECU - my power turbine was actually set to 160.000 RPM coming from the JC , but that was dialed up to max. after JC's approval. JC never explained why it was set at 160.000 RPM.From the pictures the damages seems limited to the front of the cowling - I would buy a new lower cowling.
How do the wings look?
Did you check the last off condition in the ECU? That would give you an idea to why the engine died.
Martin
Actually there was damage on the wings and fuse, the tail almost separated, unfortunately. The ECu cause for flame out was overspeed, does not make sense as it was on a low speed, about 1/4 throtle, when it was accelerated it quit. the smoke was on at the time. the only apparent damaged on the engine was the part between the engine and gear were the exhaust is placed, that part came loose rotating freely. Small fire resulted from the smoke oil leaking on top of the engine but it was readily put out.
best,
Leo