Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

jet-1a air valve help

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

jet-1a air valve help

Old 06-18-2008, 05:59 PM
  #1  
Big feet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Big feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carrickfergus, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default jet-1a air valve help

Hi all,
I have jet 1a valves in my new Elan, and the system works well, BUT, it has a strange feature.
When I switch on the Tx, then Rx, without touching the Tx the gear will retract, wait a second or two, then lower again.
Has anyone else come across this? If so, can you stop it doing this? I am bound to forget some day when I just want to turn on the radio to adjust something and she will drop onto her belly.

Cheers,
Old 06-18-2008, 07:49 PM
  #2  
Grodus
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hensley, AR
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Yes, I have the same problem. I have an analog servos on my retract and brake valves. I am using a JR 9303 and Hi Tec servos.. I hope that a changing to digital servos will eliminate the problem, so Im waiting on the digital version of the HS-85 servo. I programmed fail safe gear down but it didnt help.
My brake valve servo twitches also until the link is made but it hadnt been a problem until Sunday, flight #20 on this airplane. The brake servo pull the ram completely out of the BVM smooth stop and then tried to center its self when the connection was made. The ram had no place to go so the servo, now in a bind, destroyed itself. Took less than 2 seconds for all this to happen and the days flying was scrubbed.
I would like to know if the electronic brake valve do the same thing with the 2.4 systems.

Cody
Old 06-19-2008, 02:43 AM
  #3  
Big feet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Big feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carrickfergus, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi,
Sorry, I should have said, the valves I'm using are the electronic type, no servos.
Also, I'm using 35Mhz, PCM, not 2.4.

Still confused.

Grodus, I hate it when a good flying day gets wasted for a strange reason like that.

Cheers,
Old 06-19-2008, 08:35 AM
  #4  
docgboy
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Medford, NJ
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Set your failsafe so the gear is in the down position and it should correct this issue
Old 06-19-2008, 08:57 AM
  #5  
Gordon Mc
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: , CA
Posts: 7,964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Not sure what your "Jet-1a" air valve is ... maybe it's like the Airpower valve that I recently bought from Dreamworks ?

If so, I had this exact same problem. It's basically some very badly thought-out programming in the valve internals, that you have to hack your way around.

Initially my gear were up when I had the TX switch in the down position, so I tried programming the valve to reverse the gear direction, and when that didn't work properly I tried reversing the TX setting. No joy - I could either have the gear be UP when I had the switch in the down position, or I could have it that the gear was in the correct direction but did an uncommanded gear-up then gear-down cycle when first switched on. REALLY annoying. The feeble instructions that came with the valve were absolutely no use, but fortunately Todd from Dreamworks was his usual helpful self and spent a good half-hour or so on the phone with me walking me through various attempts until we got it working. In the end, we had to opt for NOT doing any reversal in the valve or the TX, but instead switching the airlines over so that the up airline goes into the fitting marked 'down'. Now it's fine, and I just have to remember that if I ever take the valve out for any reason, I must ignore the markings and not connect up to up, etc.

Maybe for the next version of the valve, Airpower will employ someone who actually knows a bit about programming, so that they can correct this dumb mistake.
Old 06-19-2008, 09:40 AM
  #6  
Grodus
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hensley, AR
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

I'm glad you posted that. I had just ordered an Airpower valve from Dreamworks and thought that it correct my problem. I guess everything will be ok as long as I hook it up backwards.

Thank,
Cody
Old 06-19-2008, 09:51 AM
  #7  
Gordon Mc
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: , CA
Posts: 7,964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help


ORIGINAL: Grodus

I'm glad you posted that. I had just ordered an Airpower valve from Dreamworks and thought that it correct my problem. I guess everything will be ok as long as I hook it up backwards.

Thank,
Cody
Cody - it may or may not depend on which Airpower valve (I'm using the EV5U) and which mode etc you are using.

If you are using the EV5U as well, I'd suggest that you hook it up "normally" first without the gear doors actually being operated (otherwise you may do as I did and break your gear doors when the struts slam into them due to the incorrect behavior). Just hook some spare cylinder up to the gear-door ports so that you aren't losing all of your air when the valve tries to operate doors, and reverse the retract lines only if necessary. Then once you have that part done, start working on the gear doors.

Regards,
Gordon
Old 06-19-2008, 10:35 AM
  #8  
Grodus
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hensley, AR
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Thank Gordon.
Old 06-19-2008, 11:49 AM
  #9  
causeitflies
 
causeitflies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: EASTERN OHIO
Posts: 2,186
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Even though this is an electronic valve, it exhibits the same behavior that many analog servos do, jumping in one direction at start up. The cure is the same ie. reversing the airlines, or with servos, using the other side oif the arm and reversing the throw.
Old 06-19-2008, 12:02 PM
  #10  
sweetpea01
My Feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lebanon OH
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help


ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc


ORIGINAL: Grodus

I'm glad you posted that. I had just ordered an Airpower valve from Dreamworks and thought that it correct my problem. I guess everything will be ok as long as I hook it up backwards.

Thank,
Cody
Cody - it may or may not depend on which Airpower valve (I'm using the EV5U) and which mode etc you are using.

If you are using the EV5U as well, I'd suggest that you hook it up "normally" first without the gear doors actually being operated (otherwise you may do as I did and break your gear doors when the struts slam into them due to the incorrect behavior). Just hook some spare cylinder up to the gear-door ports so that you aren't losing all of your air when the valve tries to operate doors, and reverse the retract lines only if necessary. Then once you have that part done, start working on the gear doors.

Regards,
Gordon

Thanks for that tip.........I'm sure I would have dorked that up by not even thinking about it when I get to installing my gear doors and setting it all up.
Old 06-19-2008, 12:17 PM
  #11  
Gordon Mc
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: , CA
Posts: 7,964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

No worries ... and don't let my frustration with the way it's been programmed put you off - it's certainly a usefull toy, but just one that could be done quite a bit better if a little thought had been put into it. Since I earn a living as a software guy, I tend to get more frustrated with badly written software than the average guy does, just because I know in most cases how easy it would have been to do things right

I know that Todd has indicated that he's already working with Airpower on getting a number of improvements into the next generation of this valve, so hopefully it will evolve over time into something that even I can't complain about

Gordon
Old 06-19-2008, 12:59 PM
  #12  
Bob_B
My Feedback: (11)
 
Bob_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bluegrass State of Mind
Posts: 4,114
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

The Jet 1-A valve is similar to the jet Tronic. A friend has the Jet 1-A gear in his boomer and his nose gear will momentarily cycle when he turns the radio on. He has rebound his radio with the same results so it sounds as if the issue is with the valve.
Old 06-19-2008, 05:50 PM
  #13  
Big feet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Big feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carrickfergus, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi,
Yes, I agree. As I said above, I am not using 2.4, I'm on 35Mhz so this is not a binding issue.
I just thought of a test. If I turn the radio on with the gear switch in the other direction, will the gear cycle, THEN retract to the switch position? Or, will it only do a half cycle? Another thought, will it cycle if I switch the system on with the gear in the up position? This is no help to me at present but may be a useful test as I am prepared to re do the air lines is nessessary.

I will do some tests tomorrow but please keep the ideas comming.

Thanks guys.
Old 06-20-2008, 06:08 PM
  #14  
Big feet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Big feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carrickfergus, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi all,
Update.
I carried out some tests and discovered the following.
One of the valves, I'm not sure if it is the normally open or closed, will become active on system power up irrespective of the gear switch position, it is a default on power up. I had this valve connected to the gear up airline, hence the gear retracting immediately I switched on the system. The active state is indicated by a red light on the valve.
I swapped the air lines over so this valve now is gear down and the issue is solved, gear remains in the down position when I power up the system. To keep my retract switch in my preferred gear down position I had to reverse the channel on the Tx, easily done.

I hope this info is of use to others who come across this issue.

Happy flying everyone,
Old 07-29-2008, 01:39 PM
  #15  
stoni1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hastings, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi Guys...I have a question regarding the Airpower multi valve EV5U......I am trying to set up the brakes on anti lock...I have programmed the card for anti locking and down loaded to valve...I am using a futaba 9cap and have the brakes on channel seven which is mixed with channel 2 elevator and the mix is switched on with the retract down switch...now when I switch on the transmitter and select gear down the brake flashes on and off even though I havent made any inputs...I have set the rates on both sides at all diffrent settings and it still flashes on and off even with 0% on both sides??????? also tried reversing servo but still no joy.....any help would be appreciated as I have no hair left after trying to sort this all day......agggghhhhhhh
Old 07-29-2008, 01:40 PM
  #16  
stoni1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hastings, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi Guys...I have a question regarding the Airpower multi valve EV5U......I am trying to set up the brakes on anti lock...I have programmed the card for anti locking and down loaded to valve...I am using a futaba 9cap and have the brakes on channel seven which is mixed with channel 2 elevator and the mix is switched on with the retract down switch...now when I switch on the transmitter and select gear down the brake flashes on and off even though I havent made any inputs...I have set the rates on both sides at all diffrent settings and it still flashes on and off even with 0% on both sides??????? also tried reversing servo but still no joy.....any help would be appreciated as I have no hair left after trying to sort this all day......agggghhhhhhh
Old 07-29-2008, 01:44 PM
  #17  
Bob_B
My Feedback: (11)
 
Bob_B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bluegrass State of Mind
Posts: 4,114
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

So are you saying you switched the input/output airlines on the valve?

Bob

ORIGINAL: Big feet

Hi all,
Update.
I carried out some tests and discovered the following.
One of the valves, I'm not sure if it is the normally open or closed, will become active on system power up irrespective of the gear switch position, it is a default on power up. I had this valve connected to the gear up airline, hence the gear retracting immediately I switched on the system. The active state is indicated by a red light on the valve.
I swapped the air lines over so this valve now is gear down and the issue is solved, gear remains in the down position when I power up the system. To keep my retract switch in my preferred gear down position I had to reverse the channel on the Tx, easily done.

I hope this info is of use to others who come across this issue.

Happy flying everyone,
Old 07-29-2008, 02:15 PM
  #18  
SpiderJets
Senior Member
 
SpiderJets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: .., BELGIUM
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi All,

The Jet 1A valves are great. Just received eight more from Digitech, as I do hope to have enough stock whenever they would decide eventually to do only the entire range of AirPower.

Without power, a valve remains open or closed and only switches to the other position when it receives the opposite signal from the RX.
For your retracts, suppose these are of the AIR IN-SPRING OUT retract type, you must use a "NORMALLY CLOSED" air valve (only).
Suppose you have an AIR IN-AIR OUT retract type, you must use in addition to the "NORMALLY CLOSED" valve a "NORMALLY OPEN" valve, for the other air nipple.

And here it is where the 50% chance error comes in : in such case you should swap the air lines on the valves AND reverse your gear channel on the TX.
When you power up the system, the valve will stay CLOSED : which is in the GEAR DOWN position. (with AIR-AIR system the other valve in OPEN).
It takes a second or two for the RX to emit the right signal output after rebooting the RX on power on.

Hope this clarifies it.

PS. I love the Jet 1A valves, they are so light I do not even mount them, I simply tape them on the air tubings. Too bad you need a Y-cable for connection them in the RX gear channel, but now I shorten and solder the one servo lead to the other valves' electronics after I have glued them together with double sided foam tape.

Nicolas.
Old 07-29-2008, 05:05 PM
  #19  
Big feet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Big feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carrickfergus, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi Bob,
No, the input must be the input. SpiderJets describes it well.
If you plug in the two valves (assuming you have air up/air down gear), watch to see which valve has the red light come on first, connect this one to the gear down air line, the other to the air up line.
This will now give you gear down when you switch on your radio.
If you prefer your gear switch in a particular position for gear down, simply reverse the gear channel if it is not correct when you first power up the system.

Hope this helps

I agree with you SpiderJets, these units are small, light and work well. I had one issue with a wire breaking on my brake valve, but this was probably down to me moving it around while I swapped over the valves to cure my gear down problem.
I secure mine with velcro, and have the break valve on top of the gear up valve, again with velcro.
Old 07-30-2008, 10:01 AM
  #20  
Jgwright
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Norfolk , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

This is a very interesting thread. I too have Jet 1A valves on one plane and they work well, but I too have the retracts valve cycling from down to up then down. I also have U/C doors. The valves have been both plumbed in as you suggest with the valve that initially shows the red light as the one that has the down air line plugged in.

When I switch the Rx, the retract valves go from down to up and then down again as I can see the red light changing from one valve to the other.

Interestingly the pair used for the doors do not cycle. This also has the valve that first comes on red connected to the open doors.

I do have an Orbit Y lead sequencer fitted but do not see why this should make any difference.

I cannot find any way to get the retract valve to be down and stay down when switched on. I have to make sure that we always switch on before filling the tanks with air.

I also have the brake valve but cannot get it to work, it has pulses when activated, but the pulses are too weak to operate the brakes. I had no instructions with either valve. Maybe Nicolas you can help here.

John
Old 07-30-2008, 10:28 AM
  #21  
Helijet
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kamloops, BC, CANADA
Posts: 1,013
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Well I feel I need to respond to this thread. Perhaps its only my luck but the two valves that came with my Jet1A gear for my Elan both leaked so badly that I finally gave up on them. They leaked air from the body as well as the fitting that was screwed into the plastic body. The programming was no problem but there was no way they would reliably hold air. Otherwise the gear is a work of art and an excellent choice for the Elan.

Dean W.
Old 07-30-2008, 03:23 PM
  #22  
Big feet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Big feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carrickfergus, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Helijet, can you not get those replaced by the supplier, they are obviously faulty, mine hold the air from one weekend until the next.

JGwright, have you tried connecting the gear lines to the opposite valve as a test? You describe exactly the problem I had at first.
The gear would cycle once on power up. I knew it was only a matter of time before I forgot and she would drop on her belly and damage the finish. Also, try a power up with the gear switch in the other position (gear up) and watch the red light.
Old 07-31-2008, 02:12 AM
  #23  
SpiderJets
Senior Member
 
SpiderJets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: .., BELGIUM
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

John,

Have you tried to address your problem to Sandor ?
A manufacturer of a product is always in the middle of all usefull incoming information...

As for pulsing (brake) valves, I haven't tried the Jet 1A's for this as I prefer nowadays no longer to use wheel brakes (our club field has such long grass that we rather think in terms how to speed up the plane instead of slowing it down ). Not sure what the problem exactly is, but a lot of mine have always been solved by putting Robart air restrictors in the brake line, which is a more controllable solution than trying to fix it with electronic programming on both the valve itself and your TX. On my best jets I even made a bypass air line (with two T-connectors) on these which bypass line does NOT have air restrictors, only a one way valve (in fact a air fill valve like the SpringAir, with the connector permanently screwed in and hence having nipples at both sides) . The result is that when I activate the wheel brakes the pressure builds up very slowly (hence gradually increased braking) but when I release the brake switch the pressure is gone almost instantly as it escapes via the free route of the air fill valve. My wheel brakes are always on a TX toggle switch (or were in the past mixed in with down elevator). I prefer the trainer toggle switch more than down elevator because when you land fast you will not be eager to move the elevator to a point it can damage your plane... Pulsing the toggle switch gives you a proportional feel of the brakes, if needed.

Hope this helps.

Nicolas.

Old 07-31-2008, 03:36 AM
  #24  
Jgwright
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Norfolk , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Nicolas

Thanks for the reply, yes I did contact Sandor but had no info. I was wondering if anyone else had tried the brake valve and found out how to set it up. Really the only issue I have had is no instructions. All the 1A valves I have do not leak and work well. As you say they are nice and light and small. I have an Orbit brake valve on one plane and that is simple to set up and is great. I also have a Jettronic one on another plane and that too works well. We fly off different surfaces and do fly from a full size runway at our home club and it is handy to be able to stop the model before it gets a long way down the runway.

John
Old 06-03-2009, 12:53 PM
  #25  
SpiderJets
Senior Member
 
SpiderJets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: .., BELGIUM
Posts: 1,592
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: jet-1a air valve help

Hi Sandor,

I got a PM from somebody who is looking for Jet-1A valves. Are they still made by your company and/or available from you ?

Best Regards,
Nicolas.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.