sportvelo

Agreed! This is turning into a circus. It would be nice if a mod could clean this up.

Xairflyer

My Feedback: (1)

I am going to assume the blame as too much general JJ stuff has went on in this thread which is supposed to be about the JJJ, the Jetjoe debate will continue I suspect for a long time, but it needs to be moved to the Main Jetjoe thread.
So please air your general views there, (myself included) it will save JJJ owners in the future scrolling through loads of stuff they are not interested in to find out something about thier turbine.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Why do you JJ (or JJJ) True Believers always call someone that does not believe JJs (or JJJs) are quality turbines a trouble maker or someone spouting nonsense? Could it be that you don't want to hear the truth?

All of this discussion of Jet Joe's inferior quality is very much so applicable to the JJJ. What is the percentage of JJJ that are running repeatedly, out of the box, and running at full stated thrust?

I don't see a need for a moderator to clean anything up. Unless, of course, someone does not like any criticism of JJ.

Xairflyer

My Feedback: (1)

Negative publicity is a good thing, I bet JetJoe smiles everytime he see's the threads getting bigger, (the main JJ thread is one of the biggest in the RCJets forum) and a lot more people now know that he is also producing a min turbine, I bet any money he has sold ones directly because of this thread.

rcguy!

My Feedback: (69)

Naw! I think he smiles all the way to the bank. JetJoe has a LONG way to go in the quality department. "Vastly" improved quality I heard 2 years ago. Well... Vastly more to go.... Yes? Seems like 4 years is enough time for even the basics? Like getting the ECU connections the same as the HDT connector?

I endorse JJ for this very reason...... "For those that rather tinker than fly, for those that rather fly than tinker..Get ANYTHING else"

BTW... WHAT is the secret to having ALL fuel needles delivery fuel? JJ has not found that out yet.....

I saw this summer where the USA rep could not get 2 hand picked 1400's to run without vibration for a customer. Hmmmmmm

SpiderJets

I agree with Woketman and all the others trying to bring good common sense to those badly wishing to believe a waste of 1000 $ is well spent.
Sorry guys, but I have to work very hard for my money and I do enjoy weekend after weekend my Lambert Kolibris.
I paid the value, and yes it is not cheap, but at least I have so many flights now under my belt and all these 'believers' not one single flight of which they could say their 1000 $ gave them the simple enjoyment of being confident the engine was reliable. I feel sorry for them, I would definitely feel like being ripped off completely !
Still do not understand why some of them still want to make others believe here on RCU it was a great deal, or eventually will become a great deal.
I can sell you bottles of water too for astronomical prices and tell you it is coming from 3000 meters below the surface and will bringing you luck and happiness under condition you drink enough of the stuff.
Again, for me this thread does not contribute at all to RCU anymore, enough is enough.
I want to unsubscribe.

PS. I can also sell you coconuts from outer space, if you are allergic to the pure water from my precious well.

Nicolas.

seravios

all these argument is getting nowhere..........believe me. THose who think JJ is bad, please leave this tread alone. Is that too much to ask ? I feel YOU ALL have said enough and your points all taken in consideration. The decision to buy or not still lies in individual. You can go home and fly your premium engine and be happy,we are not going to curse you.

jason

My Feedback: (1)

Actually that is too much to ask. It is unreasonable to ask only the people who are happy with JJ to post on this thread. If you want to read only good things on any product then best go to the manufacturers website and not a public forum.

Jason

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Amen.

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

Personally I like the Wren "kit" turbine. Its like a hands on class in turbine assembly/dis assembly/maintenance..

Takes the expense out of bearing changes.

Its gives one another skill.

Priceless.

Steve

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

EXACTLY!!! Folks thinking about spending their hard earned $$$ on a JJ need to hear both sides of the story to make an informed decision.

dw_crash

My Feedback: (6)

Woketman,

I don't believe either side is fairly portraying the real situation. Each side is speaking without listening. So, lets get back to discussions of JJJs. Not wheter we should or should not buy them. Let people read about them, technically, and from the experiences actual owner post. None of the Blah, Blah Blah that you have been posting. After you buy one, try it, then you have the RIGHT to say something based on REAL PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. None of this I heard from a guy who heard from a guy whose cousin told him....Till then, your wasting electrons!!!!!

DW_Crash

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Nonsense.

Your twisted rationale is like saying "Until you have committed murder, you have no right to say that murder is wrong."

I have watched some guys be absolutely gutted that their JJ piece of junk didn't work, and them quitting the turbine side of our hobby because after spending that much on something that doesn't work, they no longer have enough money in their hobby fund to buy something that DOES work.

How is it that my experience in trying to help those guys get their piece of trash to run, and then trying to console them, gives me no right to expose these engines for what they are because I have not personally given JJ any money ... and yet if now I give JJ my credit card details to buy a paperweight, somehow I magically have the right to say "Now that I have spent money pointlessly, my prior experience of this POS is suddenly blessed by dw_crash and I am now permitted to finally tell the truth" ??

What a complete and utter load of codswallop.

Gordon

shorty55

Well, here we go again!
Some pages ago I was following with great interest the experiences of owners of the JJj. The chap from australia doing great things to get them running, yes i know, this shouldnt need to be done but c'est la vie! From a technical point of view it was very interest and worth knowing, but alas the jj slagging match has ran and ran and ran again, pages of it. By now we all know everyones opinions, its a free world, well nearly, so we can all do what we like. Lets get back to what the thread was originally all about and get some news on the JJj's progess.
Regards Nick.
PS anyone with a paper weight going cheap I 'll buy it.

dw_crash

My Feedback: (6)

Here! Here!! I 100% agree.

DW_Crash

jason

My Feedback: (1)

Shorty

I have a JJJ here so please feel free to make me an offer based on the following:

It normally runs once or twice and then needs the bearing changing.
The NGV goes out of shape after some but not all runs.
I have some concerns about the shaft flexing at high revs causing a high pitch screech
There are case pressure leaks in 5 places
Did run at 800+ deg C but this is now fixed.
The turbine wheel nut stretches and then falls off occasionally but I will supply a M5 left hand tap along with some hex stock for you make your own.
The mounting strap for some reason has decided to grow and no longer fits the engine
The case is too big for the diffuser and all the aluminium parts are as soft as a good French cheese.

Apart from that it's a great engine! I await your offer

Jason

shorty55

I was after, am rather, a jj1200 or jj1400 paper weight, something to play with over winter months, maybe use it as a heater in my garage.
Regards,Nick.

jason

My Feedback: (1)

If you want to make sure you say warm this winter then I'd get coat instead...

J

PeterCantropus

Guys,

I find all these threads about JJ very informative. removing all the hard feelings from everybody, I arrive to the following conclusions.

1) There are some people who desperately want to enter the world of the turbines, and see JJ as an NGO that aims to provide reliable and economical turbines so that more people can afford them. I think that all the current turbine manufacturers dream of lowering the price in order to sell many more engines. Excuse the disappointment, but JJ is in the business of the turbines to make money too. I have read in another thread that JJ's mother's house is dedicated to textile machinery. I'm sure that someone in China had the good idea of to sell 2lb of metal at 1000USD, that is 1 / 10 of the cost of a sewing machine sold for 4 times the price. We have not seen any sign of Joe's ability to design anything. It seems that he purchased several engines, put them apart in pieces, sent the parts to their suppliers of sewing machine parts, put the pieces back together and sell the engines to half the price to end users. Skipping the R+D costs, the test costs, skipping warranty costs, and using low quality materials and high tolerances, it is easy to have a "turbine" ready to sell for half the price of competitors, and still make more money than many of them in each sale. Some people have moral problems with this kind of business. Others do not, it's only a matter of principles.

2) In all the discussions there are always some loyal customers who defend JJ. I have no problem with that, everyone is free to speak. But there are some facts that are always repeated. Usually people who defend JJ is due to their lack of understanding of the mission of JJ (Read section 1, not an NGO), generally are rookies, and do not last long, the great supporters of JJ of last year are now missing, they seem to fade out after firsts flights. On the other side the detractors of JJ are always the same people. Usually experienced people that have a good record in RCU.

3)It is now stated that the engines are sorted out. That does not seem right. So far we don't had any notice of that a JJ had been flown for a long time, for example 25h. One of the last defenders of JJ in this thread is putting his engine apart after low operation time. Some say that the guru of Oz can do magic, and fix the engines. Still not demonstrated that these "fixed" engines can operate for long without problems. The quality of materials seems to avoid it. High tolerances don't allow that the rotor balance last for long time, killing the bearings in short time.

But back to this thread, JJJ, history repeats itself, no one had more than a few flights on it, and in the Jason case, JJ is refusing to repair the engine. JJ is here to make money, not to loose it, the costumer have a engine, what else he want?!. I doubt that any of the "elite manufacturers" would do that ... but sure that all of them would like to be on JJ's position, of having customers that buy engines like buying a lottery ticket, knowing that maybe the engine does not work, but hoping that maybe it does, but if it doesn't, nobody complain.

I'm sorry if some of you don't like the conclusions to where I arrived by reading these forums and doing my own tests, I invite you to correct me. BTW, I owned 3 JJ and had some fun and learned a lot playing with them. They are good for experimenters. But if what you want is to fly turbines more than few flights and your budget is short, JJ is not a economical option. You have a much better option with Kingtech, as a example of a low cost engine that seems to run as advertised.

dw_crash

My Feedback: (6)

Well Said PeterCantropus!!! Now can we get back to discussing the JJJ!

DW_Crash

jason

My Feedback: (1)

Oh ok then..

Received 4 new bearings today. I'll get a pair fitted over the next few days and assuming I manage to get the balance right, I hope to fly it again next Monday.


Jason

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Exceptional post - thank you.

I hope that all of the people who say "JJ is the only turbine I can afford", pay careful attention to the last paragraph.

Gordon

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Here! Here!! I 100% agree.

Xairflyer

My Feedback: (1)

I was speaking to a very well know and experienced turbine guy earlier in the year and during discussing general turbine design and operation ask him about bearing changing and my concerns over upsetting the balance especially when changing the rear bearing.

He said if you mark everything well enough it should'nt be an issue, but when you get it built again spin it up with compressed air first and put the tip of your finger at the rear of the turbine case, if you feel a vibration then loosen the compressor wheel and turn it slightly one way, then try it again. If the balance was good before hand then it has to be again, so long as you hav'nt obviously replaced the compressor or turbine wheel.

As the bearings will be dry it would be a good idea to lightly oil them during assembly before using theis method.

Mace

My Feedback: (21)

FWIW,

It seems to me that the JJJ, for the moment, has become like the "cheap utensil at Walmart" turbine. Sometimes it fools others into thinking they get a great deal. It is great for experimentation and may be improved enough one day for reliability. For the performance it currently gives, it should be 1/3 or less of the price it is currently going for. I would like to see pictures of one torn apart and posted so those of us who read this thread for information could see the QC issues that have been discussed. My point is if Walmart would pick up the JJ brand we would all have one for 1/4 the price they are now. Who currently holds the world record for consecutive non-eventful flights on a JJJ?

MACE