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2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Old 06-09-2009, 04:29 PM
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mr_matt
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Default 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

I read that the Weatronics 2.4 Ghz system is 12 channel.

Anyone know if (and how) they do that on a Futaba radio?


Thanks,
Old 06-09-2009, 07:03 PM
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Edgar Perez
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?



I was told they get the PPM signal from the transmitter, since they were unable to crack the futaba protocols. That's why you don't get 14 channels..

Old 06-09-2009, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?


ORIGINAL: mr_matt

I read that the Weatronics 2.4 Ghz system is 12 channel.

Anyone know if (and how) they do that on a Futaba radio?


Thanks,
Just started testing the Weatronic 2.4 system today, I'll look into what modes they are using with Futaba in the morning....So far, I am HIGHLY impressed with the product. Weatronic has certainly put some serious thought into this 2.4 system. Features and software are astounding! They claim over 2 mile ground range, will find out just how accurate this claim is tomorrow.Gotta love the bidirectional signal which warns the pilot when the battery of the receiver has low voltage or the signal range is reaching the boundaries.
Old 06-09-2009, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Actually, just found it in the manual...

PCM mode will provide 10 channels
PPM mode provides 12

I was also informed a 16 channel unit is in the works.
Old 06-09-2009, 11:05 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Just to confirm, the unit will give 10 channels using a JR 10SXII/10X series and Graupner MC24 series TXs, it will give 12 channels with a JR12X and Graupner MX22,MX24 series TXs.
What kind of power out put does their TX module have for the USA version?
What series TX will the 16 channel unit work with?
Does Weatronics have plans to offer a transmitter of their own?
Is there FCC certification on the units for the USA?

I sent Weatronics an email, but have yet to receive a reply.
Old 06-10-2009, 08:53 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Yes Todd I just checked my 12Z, it has a 12 channel PPM mode, I did not know that.

I wonder if the MPDX-1 will work with PPM mode and this new receiver?

I have mutual friends with the engineers at Weatronics, they are top notch guys.

Also, I thought ACT had "cracked" Futaba and JR PCM a long time ago? Seriously it should not be that hard, we reverse engineer stuff like this all the time at my real work.
Old 06-10-2009, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Matt,
I certainly am not smart enough understand the technology of the behind the scene function of the weatronic FHSS system, I will iquire with Gerhard as to the reason for the limitation in PCM mode.
The modulation options are shown below from a software screen shot. BTW... If anyone is interested in playing with the Weatronic software and capabilities, you can simply go to www.weatronic-usa.com and register on the website. You can then download the GigaControl software for free. I recommend everyone at least take a look at what this system is capable of, far beyond anything else on the market.


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Old 06-10-2009, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

I agree, if it is a tight integration with Futaba (G3 or FAAST modulation, or PPM if the MPDX-1 works) this is a very attractive unit for me.
Old 06-16-2009, 03:50 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

I spent yesterday in Stuttgart with Weatronics getting an in depth tutorial on the Micro and the larger DR. I have flown the Micro (itself a DUAL receiver) in my BobCat as "plug and play " unit with total success, not a single problem, totally rock solid. There will be a full article in the next RCJI in its plug and play form (no PC required).

Yesterday we went through the advanced features of this unit with the latest firmware loaded into the receivers and the latest software into my PC. The capabilities of the tiny Micro are just incredible, progammable warning levels downloded and recorded into the Tx (whose performance is also monitored and recorded)PLUS assignable channels PLUS totally programmable servos PLUS, coming soon, twin integral gyros all in a box no bigger than a JR 1221 and much cheaper to boot. This is an extraordinrily capable and advanced unit way, way, ahead of anything else on the market AND it was tested to over 100 deg C and still worked !

The transmitter module is unusual but this a function of its function, including two highly efficient antennae with a radiation pattern far better than the common single rod, one reason for the unit's exceptional range, and of course the unit has to receive as well as transmit. I am getting quite used to it now, its not a problem in any way and the green light on the unit gives a continuous indication of a solid RF link ( and a warning if you are getting near range limit, or your battery voltage has dropped to a preset level, or your receiver is getting hot !)

The bigger DR expands on these capabiliies even more with huge power handling ability plus GPS plus 3 gyros capable of normal, attitude hold or constant angular rate, (Wealock) plus even further programability and vastly enhanced software (and includes a 2.4 spectrum monitor, which immediately picked up the two channels the Spektrum unit was transmitting on during the tests yesterday. make set up even easier and more precise, (servo adjustment now has 4096 steps !!)There are 22 million set up possibilties(calculated by Alwin Mueller, the designer) inan idle moment !) The failsafe functions, channel and servo, are incredibly clever.

When I have had a chance to absorb and try out the info. I learned yesterday I will do in depth reporting for RCJI on these advanced functions which, I believe, place the new systems on a totally different level to anything currently available.

I have never been interested in "bling" but have always sought out the safest, most secure and reliable system for all of my models, jet or otherwise. I think I have found the nearest thing to the Holy Grail !

regards, David Gladwin.
Old 06-16-2009, 10:11 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Sounds like a great pair of systems David / Todd ... there again, so did the much-hyped old Weatronics system until I actually started using it. []

Have you guys played with it enough to know whether the Weatronics 2.4 system has totally arbitrary limitations in its programming, like the old Weatronics systems have ? (e.g. not being allowed to have output 1 and output 9 driven by the same input, etc., etc) Or have they cottoned on and allowed the true flexibility of their hardware to not be crippled by bogus programing assumptions ?

Gordon
Old 06-16-2009, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Gordon,
I never really found many limitaions I could not work around with the older 72mhz system, although some of the limitations did seem a arbitrary.

The new unit has rectified many of the limitations that preceded the 2.4 unit, you can now assign any servo to any channel... Even drive a single servo by multiple channels. You can gang any servo, regardless of rx port and even reverse a servo when ganged and sync'd. Still playing with the features but have yet to find a limitation period...
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

So, this is where Axel is hiding and I can't get him to come to the phone and confirm my order!!!

Chris
ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

I spent yesterday in Stuttgart with Weatronics getting an in depth tutorial on the Micro and the larger DR. I have flown the Micro (itself a DUAL receiver) in my BobCat as "plug and play " unit with total success, not a single problem, totally rock solid. There will be a full article in the next RCJI in its plug and play form (no PC required).

Yesterday we went through the advanced features of this unit with the latest firmware loaded into the receivers and the latest software into my PC. The capabilities of the tiny Micro are just incredible, progammable warning levels downloded and recorded into the Tx (whose performance is also monitored and recorded)PLUS assignable channels PLUS totally programmable servos PLUS, coming soon, twin integral gyros all in a box no bigger than a JR 1221 and much cheaper to boot. This is an extraordinrily capable and advanced unit way, way, ahead of anything else on the market AND it was tested to over 100 deg C and still worked !

The transmitter module is unusual but this a function of its function, including two highly efficient antennae with a radiation pattern far better than the common single rod, one reason for the unit's exceptional range, and of course the unit has to receive as well as transmit. I am getting quite used to it now, its not a problem in any way and the green light on the unit gives a continuous indication of a solid RF link ( and a warning if you are getting near range limit, or your battery voltage has dropped to a preset level, or your receiver is getting hot !)

The bigger DR expands on these capabiliies even more with huge power handling ability plus GPS plus 3 gyros capable of normal, attitude hold or constant angular rate, (Wealock) plus even further programability and vastly enhanced software (and includes a 2.4 spectrum monitor, which immediately picked up the two channels the Spektrum unit was transmitting on during the tests yesterday. make set up even easier and more precise, (servo adjustment now has 4096 steps !!)There are 22 million set up possibilties(calculated by Alwin Mueller, the designer) inan idle moment !) The failsafe functions, channel and servo, are incredibly clever.

When I have had a chance to absorb and try out the info. I learned yesterday I will do in depth reporting for RCJI on these advanced functions which, I believe, place the new systems on a totally different level to anything currently available.

I have never been interested in "bling" but have always sought out the safest, most secure and reliable system for all of my models, jet or otherwise. I think I have found the nearest thing to the Holy Grail !

regards, David Gladwin.
Old 06-16-2009, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Not quite sure what you were trying to fly if the Weatronicscouldnt cope, but the original Weatronics was much vaunted because it was/is a brilliant system, light years ahaead of anything else.Model equivalent of the FMCs fittedto airliners. With my three receivers in three HawksI didn't discover any shortcomings, but a whole raft of huge advantages , credit where its due, solets take a balanced view.

Having spentmost of today playing/ experimenting with the large DR I am just amazed atits capability, withseveral functions I would never have though of. I think this thing could easily manage a 747 ! Just how they get so much capabaility out of the tiny Micro is unbelievable.

Regards,

David Gladwin.
Old 06-16-2009, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?


ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc

Gordon,
I never really found many limitaions I could not work around with the older 72mhz system, although some of the limitations did seem a arbitrary.

The new unit has rectified many of the limitations that preceded the 2.4 unit, you can now assign any servo to any channel... Even drive a single servo by multiple channels. You can gang any servo, regardless of rx port and even reverse a servo when ganged and sync'd. Still playing with the features but have yet to find a limitation period...
That's very encouraging.

With the old system, I could not drive e.g. outputs 1 and 9 (or 17, IIRC) from the same input. The Weatronics support guy claimed it was a safety feature based on the fact that there were only 4 regulators in the unit, but when I pointed out the various flaws in their "it's a feature, not a bug" explanation, they just clammed up and stopped trying to justify the arbitrary limitations.

If I want input 1 to drive both airbrakes and lights, and I have airbrakes on output 1 and lights on output 9, there is nothing unsafe about me doing so. But, the Weatronics guys decided that I should be prohibited from doing so, and so I had to shuffle servo assignments around to split these 2 functions by a number other than 8 ... but shuffling to avoid that one clash caused another clash elsewhere, and so on & on. On my Jag, I got so tired of constantly switching the output assignments around in a desperate attempt to find some combo of output assignments that was actually blessed by the Weatronics Gods, that I eventually gave up and resorted to using a matchbox and leaving outputs unused which is a totally ridiculous thing to have to do IMO.

If the new system has overcome those pointless limitations, then maybe it's worth a closer look after all. I swore off of Weatronics after the above farce, but if they have wised up then they deserve another look.

Thanks for the info.

Gordon
Old 06-16-2009, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Will the Futaba MPDX-1 work in 12 channel Futaba PPM mode?
Old 06-16-2009, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Hi

I have the conventional Weatronics RX and find it rock solid regarding RF link. With Futaba radios it can handle 12ch in ppm mode but the downside of this system is that it can only handle 8 proporcional channels in PCM mode and ONLYin 1024.

Iam using it with a lot of internal matches and mixes in the receiver. This receiver works like a top line TX regarding servo programming and can also match servos. If you add intenal gyros and double rx with regulated power supply, you have it all for the price of a top of the line powerbox.

I was planning to change it to ppm mode to have more channels, but I am a bit affraid to fly jets in ppm mode even with the weatronics. Is any one using it in this mode?

It is very sad to me that the 2.4ghz sistem can't work in the fasst mode and as to use a big box on the top of the TX to.

Regards

Nuno


Old 06-16-2009, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?


ORIGINAL: jetnuno

Hi

I have the conventional Weatronics RX and find it rock solid regarding RF link. With Futaba radios it can handle 12ch in ppm mode but the downside of this system is that it can only handle 8 proporcional channels in PCM mode and ONLYin 1024.

Iam using it with a lot of internal matches and mixes in the receiver. This receiver works like a top line TX regarding servo programming and can also match servos. If you add intenal gyros and double rx with regulated power supply, you have it all for the price of a top of the line powerbox.

I was planning to change it to ppm mode to have more channels, but I am a bit affraid to fly jets in ppm mode even with the weatronics. Is any one using it in this mode?

It is very sad to me that the 2.4ghz sistem can't work in the fasst mode and as to use a big box on the top of the TX to.

Regards

Nuno


Hello Nuno,

I have 3 12-20R gyro II 35 Mhz units, all fitted in my big jets ( F-84G, F-18F, Me262, etc... ).
Because on the number of channels used ( 10 minimum ) I have gone PPM for all of these jets and logged countless hours of flight.
I find the PPM protocol actually safer than PCM with the Weatronic system. Basically the system acts like PCM ( will enter failsafe mode if the 2 RRSI values drop below noise level ) however your plane will start to "shake" before it reaches this state.
Note that this feature saved my big F-18F on the second test flight. I had the EV-5U controller placed just besides the receiver and this unit started to output much more RMIs than during the range tests. I started to see the F-18F shaking at unusual close distances and brought it back to the ground for an new range test. This subsequent test was not satisfactory anymore with reasonably high RSSIvalues ( which meant that the noise level or RMIs level had raised ) and it took me only a couple of minutes to identify the faulty equipment. If I would have gone PCM I would have had a failsafe condition and possibly lost the plane in the same circumstances...

The beauty of the system is that you can monitor the number of lost frames and compare it to the RSSI values. This gives you an idea of the ambient noise level. If you have a GPS, you can also identify portions of the flight volume with high RMIs by displaying the 3D view along with RSSI numbers and lost frames...

Old 06-17-2009, 02:40 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?


ORIGINAL: jetnuno

It is very sad to me that the 2.4ghz sistem can't work in the fasst mode and as to use a big box on the top of the TX to.

Regards

Nuno


Nothing sad, Nuno , its a very different system, its bi-directional with a whole host of facilities not available in FASST so if you used justfaast you would lose almostall of the many advantages and facilities created by Weatronics 2.4 so I cant see the point(apart from using Fasst receivers) The small box, a transceiver, on the top of the TX is that size and shape because of its dual high efficiency antennae,no more long aerials as on 35/36/72.and the new antennae havemuch better radiation pattern than a single rod aerial. It is also a display unitfor the LEDs which warn of any parameter outside of preset value. Having flown it for quite a few flights, I just dont see it as a problem at all, just different to waht we have been used to, and actually I rather like it now, knowingtheamazing and highly valuable capabilities which it bestows on the system, many of which we havenever had available before. !!

Regards, David Gladwin.
Old 06-17-2009, 03:30 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

ORIGINAL: jetnuno
I was planning to change it to ppm mode to have more channels, but I am a bit affraid to fly jets in ppm mode even with the weatronics. Is any one using it in this mode?
I can't speak for the Weatronic, but I have been flying my jets for 5 years on Multiplex PPM, never PCM, and the only problem I had was on one model due to an aerial installation problem which 2.4Ghz can suffer from too and which I have now sorted, apart from that I have had 5 years of rock solid, problem free flying of metal-coated jets on PPM!
H.

Old 06-17-2009, 03:31 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

David, Weatronic doesn't seem to want to sell its new equipment! The website hasn't been updated for about 9 months and doesn't tell us anything that we really want or need to know about the new kit. For example it doesn't even hint that the micro rx are programmable and it says zero about the larger rx. In fact the website still mostly refers to the Mhz equipment. Are they going to be bothered to actually market the stuff properly and give us information?
H

Old 06-17-2009, 03:56 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

I agree Harry, I know they are VERY busy finalising the larger DR and its huge manual but the site really does neead urgent update. That said, I saw a very large pile of boxes ready for collection by the shippers !

There is quite a bit of info on the new 2.4 range including the manual for the Micro (although the advanced programming needs the Giga Control software) on the USA site of Weatronic

Regards,

David Dladwin.
Old 06-17-2009, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?


ORIGINAL: mr_matt

Will the Futaba MPDX-1 work in 12 channel Futaba PPM mode?
Matt

The MPDX-1's will only work with the 14MZ Tx.

Mike
Old 06-17-2009, 06:44 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Does anyone have any up to date pictures of the Weatronic aerial installation on a non - tray style Tx and in particular how the connection is made between the aerial and the Tx pcb? Do they use an external coax like the Spektrum module system, or have they routed the cable internally?

Roger
Old 06-17-2009, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

The manual which shows exactly that on a range of transmitters is all on the Weatronic USA web site.
Regards,
DG.
Old 06-17-2009, 07:02 AM
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Default RE: 2.4 GHz Weatronics, PPM or PCM?

Thanks David.
It certainly looks as though they have thought about the Tx installation.

Roger

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