Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
04-22-2010, 06:05 PM
#51
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
ORIGINAL: SPLIT S
Hi Jeremy,
Job looks fantastic. One question for you though. I use the gray foam pads for my polishing and glazing, but have always used wool or wool blend for the compounding. How do you feel using the white compound foam pad differs from old school wool? I guess I'm concerned with the pad wanting to skip until it's loaded a bit. Any tips there?
And on another note, do you have someone helping as far as holding pieces while you are polishing? I usually use my CP7200P with 3'' wool and the 3M 5725 3'' gray waffles for alot of my work. I've used my big DeWalt with 9'' pads, certainly quicker and more consistent results, but sometimes afraid I'll grab an edge accidentally and send the part sailing....
Thanks,
Dan
Hi Jeremy,
Job looks fantastic. One question for you though. I use the gray foam pads for my polishing and glazing, but have always used wool or wool blend for the compounding. How do you feel using the white compound foam pad differs from old school wool? I guess I'm concerned with the pad wanting to skip until it's loaded a bit. Any tips there?
And on another note, do you have someone helping as far as holding pieces while you are polishing? I usually use my CP7200P with 3'' wool and the 3M 5725 3'' gray waffles for alot of my work. I've used my big DeWalt with 9'' pads, certainly quicker and more consistent results, but sometimes afraid I'll grab an edge accidentally and send the part sailing....
Thanks,
Dan
Dan,
Take those wool pads and throw them as far away as you can! LOL, the best thing the industry could do with the wool is leave it on the damn sheep haha. The Waffle pads with the extra cut compound work 10X better, they cut more evenly, they cut faster, they allow the polish to break down more evenly, there is less risk of burning, way less risk of grabbing a corner with a stray fiber, and best of all, they don't fling crap all over the shop. As long as you make sure to clean the waffle pad, and make sure it's been wetted through out the pad, then wrung out so it's just damp, it takes no time to load the pad (most of it happens when I rub the compound over the surface with the pad) and I never have an issue with it skipping. I also never let the pad sit dead flat on the surface, I always try to tip it so only one half of the pad is cutting heavy.
As far as holding parts, well, honestly, I've painted so many bike parts where there is no easy way to make polishing fixtures that are universal enough to hold every part, that I've learned how to hold my polisher with a good grip with my right hand while holding the parts with my left hand and resting them on a hood stand.
I use the big 9" pads for pretty well everything I polish, I've had the odd piece get caught when I was first starting out, but haven't fired anything across the shop in a long long time (knock on wood).
LGM, I know this is slightly off topic, but what do guys use to get that gold reflective glass effect on their F-16 canopies? I figure I would ask the paint Yoda while he is giving lessons.
If you're seeing an actual gold reflective (like mirror sunglasses) I have no idea what they are using, the only mirror stuff I know of is film. If you're just talking about the gold tint that you can still see through, I pretty much just spray either "Pagan Gold" Kandy from House of Kolor, or Sem's gold candy (I can't remember the name right now of the color). If it's to yellow for your liking you can dull it back a bit with some root beer candy to darken it. Sand the canopy itself with 1500 grit, mix the candy into some clear and spray nice even coats until you reach the shade you want. Top coat it with 2 coats of straight clear and then wet sand and polish it, you'll end up with a crystal clear but tinted canopy.
Awesome ! I always wondered why I sometimes see the fiberglass weave appear on my clear, in areas where I did not see it previously. Now I know.
I think you need to relocate to the SF Bay Area, so that I can just have you do all my shiny paint work for me.
I think you need to relocate to the SF Bay Area, so that I can just have you do all my shiny paint work for me.
Find me and my wife a way to get a green card, supply me with enough paint jobs to make a living and I'll leave tomorrow
Jeremy
04-22-2010, 07:09 PM
#52
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RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Jeremy
Thanks for the compliment on my job it will only get better now that you are teaching us
really your jobs are great and you have sure answered alot of questions I had and I didn't even have to ask
keep it coming there is always more to learn
thanks again
Thanks for the compliment on my job it will only get better now that you are teaching us
really your jobs are great and you have sure answered alot of questions I had and I didn't even have to ask
keep it coming there is always more to learn
thanks again
04-23-2010, 02:38 AM
#53
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RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Hi Again Jeremy,
One thing that I was wondering about is the use of heatlamps or some heat source when curing paint. I remember with older paint systems this used to be the norm with auto finishers. On some of the car/bike shows that do custom paint I dont see this? I used to prepare a hot room with radiation heaters and when I put clear down would move the part to the hot room to flow out. Is this still neccessary? Surely Canada gets real cold?
Andre
One thing that I was wondering about is the use of heatlamps or some heat source when curing paint. I remember with older paint systems this used to be the norm with auto finishers. On some of the car/bike shows that do custom paint I dont see this? I used to prepare a hot room with radiation heaters and when I put clear down would move the part to the hot room to flow out. Is this still neccessary? Surely Canada gets real cold?
Andre
04-23-2010, 09:13 AM
#54
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
ORIGINAL: Turbotronic
Hi Again Jeremy,
One thing that I was wondering about is the use of heatlamps or some heat source when curing paint. I remember with older paint systems this used to be the norm with auto finishers. On some of the car/bike shows that do custom paint I dont see this? I used to prepare a hot room with radiation heaters and when I put clear down would move the part to the hot room to flow out. Is this still neccessary? Surely Canada gets real cold?
Andre
Hi Again Jeremy,
One thing that I was wondering about is the use of heatlamps or some heat source when curing paint. I remember with older paint systems this used to be the norm with auto finishers. On some of the car/bike shows that do custom paint I dont see this? I used to prepare a hot room with radiation heaters and when I put clear down would move the part to the hot room to flow out. Is this still neccessary? Surely Canada gets real cold?
Andre
Andre,
I prefer to let the clear cure on it's own. Baking is great in a production shop, but I don't have a bake system, nor do I want one. There are some issues with jets and baking, baking paint is a high temp process, it will cause surface imperfections from the thin layer of fiberglass we use in our jets. You'll just add to your sanding and polishing work. It also makes the polishing process more difficult. I try to avoid baking if I can, there are times I use an UV curing lamp, even on some airplanes, but not on something that I want a show finish on.
05-08-2010, 05:43 PM
#55
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Alright!!!!! So, I got some paint on the Firebird today. Pictures are slim, but it's basically a lot of repeating what I have already written. I will describe the pictures I have here for you though 
Picture 1. I have the top of the jet masked off a little higher than where I actually want my paint line to go. When I have the bottom color sprayed, I will mask it all off where I actually want the line to be, then I wet sand the paint edge until it's feathered out smooth. The top color then overlaps that line and you don't have a HUGE paint edge to contend with, you also don't have to spray the entire jet with the bottom color first.
Picture 2. Another view of the fuse masked off and ready for the bottom color.
Picture 3. In order to put the hatches on, but not get the bolts all filled up with paint, I doubled over some masking tape onto the backside of the hatch. Then I can put it into the recess and it will hold in there nicely while I spray.
Picture 4. Blurry picture of the servo hatches in place.
My battery in my phone died after those pictures were taken, but it was the same process as mentioned previously.
1. After masking as seen in the pictures, I sprayed the bottom in the white base and the pearl midcoat.
2. After waiting for an hour to cure, I masked out the bottom of the airplane. I then wet sanded with 800 grit paper the existing tape line from the white.
3. I then applied one base coat of black, the rattlesnake base coat, and then the rattlesnake midcoat.
Once that dried I did a little bit of airbrushing. I know, I don't have an airbrushing tutorial, soon though I promise. Some of you might be a little disappointed, I have decided to keep this one very simple as far as airbrushing or graphix goes. You will understand why when you see the way the paint color changes. It would be very easy to overdo this one.
I sat and stared at it for a couple hours wanting to put some stripes on to accentuate the beautiful curves of this airplane, but the simple fact was, the rattlesnake color already accentuates all the lines of the airplane. The color shift is so dramatic that it shows off all of the curves incredibly well.
You'll see in the next posts!
Picture 1. I have the top of the jet masked off a little higher than where I actually want my paint line to go. When I have the bottom color sprayed, I will mask it all off where I actually want the line to be, then I wet sand the paint edge until it's feathered out smooth. The top color then overlaps that line and you don't have a HUGE paint edge to contend with, you also don't have to spray the entire jet with the bottom color first.
Picture 2. Another view of the fuse masked off and ready for the bottom color.
Picture 3. In order to put the hatches on, but not get the bolts all filled up with paint, I doubled over some masking tape onto the backside of the hatch. Then I can put it into the recess and it will hold in there nicely while I spray.
Picture 4. Blurry picture of the servo hatches in place.
My battery in my phone died after those pictures were taken, but it was the same process as mentioned previously.
1. After masking as seen in the pictures, I sprayed the bottom in the white base and the pearl midcoat.
2. After waiting for an hour to cure, I masked out the bottom of the airplane. I then wet sanded with 800 grit paper the existing tape line from the white.
3. I then applied one base coat of black, the rattlesnake base coat, and then the rattlesnake midcoat.
Once that dried I did a little bit of airbrushing. I know, I don't have an airbrushing tutorial, soon though I promise. Some of you might be a little disappointed, I have decided to keep this one very simple as far as airbrushing or graphix goes. You will understand why when you see the way the paint color changes. It would be very easy to overdo this one.
I sat and stared at it for a couple hours wanting to put some stripes on to accentuate the beautiful curves of this airplane, but the simple fact was, the rattlesnake color already accentuates all the lines of the airplane. The color shift is so dramatic that it shows off all of the curves incredibly well.
You'll see in the next posts!
05-08-2010, 05:46 PM
#56
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Ok, so today I realized, I have a crappy little video camera on my cell phone, so here is a video of me clear coating the firebird!
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Clear...om-Cook-Firebi
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Clear...om-Cook-Firebi
05-08-2010, 05:53 PM
#57
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Here is a quick walk around in the booth of the top color.
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Walk-...he-Rattlesnake
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Walk-...he-Rattlesnake
05-08-2010, 06:14 PM
#61
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
ORIGINAL: Delta Mike
Love watching the Video..Good Job.. Have you decided on a turbine yet?
Love watching the Video..Good Job.. Have you decided on a turbine yet?
Yup, I sure did, had a shiny new AMT NL Olympus arrive last week!
See this thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_96...tm.htm#9698899
05-08-2010, 09:25 PM
#64
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RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Hey Jeremy, thanks for the great thread so far.....I did the maiden plus 4 additional flights on my new FB last week on the only day when it wasn't raining or windy to 40 kts........Mine came in at 38 lbs dry with a Peggy HPES NL.......I used all of Tom's suggested settings, including 1" of up aileron crow..only trim was adding 15% down elevator with full flaps...very docile....comes off grass in 300 ft and lands in less than 400.....very fast with only a 37lb Peggy......hang on with that OLY....
You gonna luv this one......
TA.......
You gonna luv this one......
TA.......
05-08-2010, 10:55 PM
#65
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
ORIGINAL: Tom Antlfinger
Hey Jeremy, thanks for the great thread so far.....I did the maiden plus 4 additional flights on my new FB last week on the only day when it wasn't raining or windy to 40 kts........Mine came in at 38 lbs dry with a Peggy HPES NL.......I used all of Tom's suggested settings, including 1'' of up aileron crow..only trim was adding 15% down elevator with full flaps...very docile....comes off grass in 300 ft and lands in less than 400.....very fast with only a 37lb Peggy......hang on with that OLY....
You gonna luv this one......
TA.......
Hey Jeremy, thanks for the great thread so far.....I did the maiden plus 4 additional flights on my new FB last week on the only day when it wasn't raining or windy to 40 kts........Mine came in at 38 lbs dry with a Peggy HPES NL.......I used all of Tom's suggested settings, including 1'' of up aileron crow..only trim was adding 15% down elevator with full flaps...very docile....comes off grass in 300 ft and lands in less than 400.....very fast with only a 37lb Peggy......hang on with that OLY....
You gonna luv this one......
TA.......
Wow, really 1" of crow? I don't even think my ailerons deflect 1"!!!!! (They go easily as far as the recommended high rate throw in the manual, but that's not 1")
I can't wait to fly it, I'm always happy to hear of docile landing characteristics, I am a little nervous about the landings after some of the horror stories. Is yours balanced right on the suggested mark? How much flap do you have with full flaps? I've heard a couple of different settings from what is in the manual.
Hoping that I'll be ready to maiden for the first week of June!
Jeremy
05-09-2010, 11:08 AM
#66
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RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Oooops! Typing too late after a couple of beers......
Re-measured everything this morning.......Max Crow is just short of 3/4", about 11/16" measured at the inboard trailing edge of the aileron.....I still have a little up aileron left at that setting....
After discussing flap settings with Tom, I started with 30 deg full flap, but it really scooted down final on the maiden....then went to 35, then 40 and on my last flight, the best one landing, it was at 45 deg with the 3/4" +/- of crow and now lands very much like a SuperBandit. TC's elevator and aileron throws are good using 35% expo all around.....much like the SB, you should run out of elevator at touchdown. Takeoff flaps are at 15 deg......FB Co-designer, Joe Rafalowski, added a ventral speed brake much like the SB to his FB build a while back.....Would be nice, but I don't think I need it now...
My CG is right on the dowel pin using TC's plywood gauge......I haven't yet experimented much with inverted flight to further evaluate the CG.......some guys have gone a bit further aft with the CG......I am happy right now....definitely not tailheavy, and no noticeable tuck in high G turns that might suggest it was nose heavy.....but like with any high wing loaded bird, not a good idea to enter any turn, especially a high G turn slow....
Upcoming Photos are full up aileron, high rate, no flaps....then takeoff flaps with negligible crow.....then landing flaps with full crow, with ailerons neutral and with full up aileron.....
I plan to shoot some video in the near future.....don't want to hijack your thread any more......if you have any more questions, shoot me a PM.....
TA
Re-measured everything this morning.......Max Crow is just short of 3/4", about 11/16" measured at the inboard trailing edge of the aileron.....I still have a little up aileron left at that setting....
After discussing flap settings with Tom, I started with 30 deg full flap, but it really scooted down final on the maiden....then went to 35, then 40 and on my last flight, the best one landing, it was at 45 deg with the 3/4" +/- of crow and now lands very much like a SuperBandit. TC's elevator and aileron throws are good using 35% expo all around.....much like the SB, you should run out of elevator at touchdown. Takeoff flaps are at 15 deg......FB Co-designer, Joe Rafalowski, added a ventral speed brake much like the SB to his FB build a while back.....Would be nice, but I don't think I need it now...
My CG is right on the dowel pin using TC's plywood gauge......I haven't yet experimented much with inverted flight to further evaluate the CG.......some guys have gone a bit further aft with the CG......I am happy right now....definitely not tailheavy, and no noticeable tuck in high G turns that might suggest it was nose heavy.....but like with any high wing loaded bird, not a good idea to enter any turn, especially a high G turn slow....
Upcoming Photos are full up aileron, high rate, no flaps....then takeoff flaps with negligible crow.....then landing flaps with full crow, with ailerons neutral and with full up aileron.....
I plan to shoot some video in the near future.....don't want to hijack your thread any more......if you have any more questions, shoot me a PM.....
TA
05-09-2010, 05:12 PM
#67
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Alright, got a little more done today, first here is a video of the Firebird outside walking around it so you can see the color shift a bit. If I had a decent video camera I would use it I swear, unfortunately, this is the best I can do for now
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Walka...tlesnake-on-th
Here is a video of doing the first cut polish after wet sanding.
http://rcuvideos.com/video/First-step-of-cut-polishing
And here is a video of the swirl remover going on
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/cut-p...er-wet-sanding
And here's another walk around in the afternoon sun, sorry about the camera quality again
http://rcuvideos.com/video/walkaroun...-afternoon-sun
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Walka...tlesnake-on-th
Here is a video of doing the first cut polish after wet sanding.
http://rcuvideos.com/video/First-step-of-cut-polishing
And here is a video of the swirl remover going on
http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/cut-p...er-wet-sanding
And here's another walk around in the afternoon sun, sorry about the camera quality again
http://rcuvideos.com/video/walkaroun...-afternoon-sun
05-19-2010, 08:44 PM
#69
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
And here are a few pictures of the install so far (just have to install one more servo, put some ends on my extensions, and put the engine in!!!) And a couple pictures of it sitting on the gear, of course, the pictures taken inside really do no justice to the airplane, I'll have to get some good ones outside if the sun ever comes out again!
05-20-2010, 12:38 AM
#72
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
The old saying - "the pictures really dont do it justice" really do apply here. Not only is the paint job outstanding, the paint itself is truly something I have never seen done before.
The really crappy part is this artist is bearly breaking a sweat. [8D]
So the maiden is going to be at the Princeton Spring Warm-up rally June 3-6. Plan your trip now!
PaulD
The really crappy part is this artist is bearly breaking a sweat. [8D]
So the maiden is going to be at the Princeton Spring Warm-up rally June 3-6. Plan your trip now!
PaulD
05-23-2010, 11:03 AM
#73
RE: Painting the JMP Firebird, a tutorial
Well, just waiting on one servo, a fuel pump fitting, and a thermocouple and I'll have the Firebird all buttoned up. Got the flaps glued onto the wing yesterday and all the linkages in place.
Hope to test run the engine before Princeton but we'll see!
Hope to test run the engine before Princeton but we'll see!
