cavandish

I fly with a 9303 2.4, and am a little concerned.
It would be nice to be able to gauge the risk I am taking using this gear. By Knowing how many have been sold, and how many have failed, we could get some idea? for me, if the chance of a failure is less than .1 % Im cool (ish) I think that it is time for horizon to start defending themself's by issuing some figures. if 5000 plus units have been sold, then maybe we can relax a little ? with the costs and risk involved with turbines and bigger models, a guessing game is not appropriate.

olnico

There are many, many occurrences of lockouts and jets crashes with Spektrum units. I started two threads named " any jet crash due to FASST problems" and " any jet crash due to Spektrum problems" about two years ago. The Spektrum thread was flooded. The FASST thread wasn't much:

Here is the Futaba thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_76..._1/key_/tm.htm

I cannot find the Spektrum thread any more.

Here is a problem I tried to solve out for a local modeler with no success.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_79...tm.htm#7997603

Here a possible explanation why the Spektrum radios get sometimes jammed:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9320327

And another independent report about the same problem:
http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/dsm2flaw.shtml
The latter has made a lot of noise at FG and it might be interesting to read the complete thread.

There is/was also the brownout issue the Tx module power interruption problem as well as bind loss issues ( I believe that the later should be resolved with recent firmwares ).

I have definitively stopped using my Spektrum equipment a long while ago ( I lost a very valuable plane due to the infamous AR9100 safety switch problem nearly 3 years ago
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_70..._1/key_/tm.htm )

David Gladwin

The answer to all these problems is available now, Weatronics. Dual receivers, FHSS, twin battery inputs, and data recording so if anything DOES go pear shaped you will have all the data for analysis on the SD card in the transmitter. I have been using both the 12 ch Micro (BobCats) and the larger 12-30 gyro 111 with GPS (PST Reaction) with total success for over a year.

With the added ability to update software and firmware, (free updates) fully programmable servo outputs (or use the Micro as a plug and play unit) plus the options of audible warnings of range, temperature (important to those who fly in warm climates) and downlink loss all in a case which is no bigger than a standard receiver and costs no more than a high end 2.4 rx my view (shared by one of our leading prfessional HF comms experts in Australia and many Wea users around the world,) is its head and shoulders ahead of anything else currently on the market.

You can even add GPS and variometer , with speech, modules to the Micro and the latest Micro 12 can be supplied with no less than 3 programmable gyros bult in with no increase in size of the case.

My latest model is a SkyGate Hawk, which will have JC 200 power, its got to have the best radio link possible, so will have a 12-20 gyro 111 with GPS as will my FC Mig 29, now being refurbished.

Regards, David Gladwin.

PS should also add that with 12x 2.4 , Spektrum 2.4 not one single problem.

digitech

My Feedback: (10)

been flying spektrum since the first DX-7 came out
after years now and logging thousands of flights between my colleages here in the netherlands.
we all used the same setups :
DX-7
DX-9
JR12X

powerbox 12 channel spektrum
6200,s 9100,s 9000s


NEVER had a radio issue..failsafe or other unexplained fades..

BaldEagel

David

Where have you been its taken till page 2 before you came on the extol the benifits of Weattronics. LOL

Mike

Steve Kent

While I wouldn't argue that Weatronics kit is most likely the best system out there the standard of customer service from the company is at the opposite end of the scale. I've been trying to get a simple question answered for about 3 months now & they just don't respond at all. Are they so superior that they can afford to just ignore their customers? I don't think so.

Xantos

Hi David,
I've lost 3 jets on JR's DSM9 system.
I wanted to switch to Futaba , but started hearing about temperature related failures with the Fasst system

I am considering Weatronics now but my question is, can the Wea system save my plane , is the radio link really that much better than anything out there ?
I understand that a lot of downlinked data is available to the user for analysis mostly after the flight.
The Wea is also a FHSS system like the Futaba so what Im really questioning is the quality of the radio link , assuming you have a clean setup(rule out failure due to redundancy , batteries, servos ,etc) which is the norm with a majority of us who fly jets

So really the difference between Futaba , JR and Wea is that , if you lose that link one would probably be able to identify the cause, whereas with FUT or JR it would remain unexplained.

Xantos

BaldEagel

Davids enthusiasm does tend to get the better of him, if you had read RCJI about three years ago David thought Spektrum was the best thing since sliced bread, which we all know now has may faults, I wonder how long it will be before a new kid on the block becomes the best, or we find a fault with Weatronics?

Mike

MNModels

Xantos,

I my opinion - the dsm2 system require military spec installations and excellent battery management systems. No cheap way to get around it. I have seen many normal modelers on normal dx7's with same problems due to bad batteries and bad installations.

I think (again my own opinion) that JR have realized this - In SA and Japan the new JRDSM3 or called DSMJ is available and have both frequency hopping and spectrum technologies incorporated. Also reboot times and battery systems not as crytical.

I think the UK , Europe and USA have much bigger bought into the DSM2 spectrum brand. Therefore would be very difficult in these countries to "split" JR and Spectrum.

DSM2 and DSMJ is not compatible.

Just my 2c..

Morne

David Gladwin

Mike I have been on a Jumbo for 24 hours.

At the time I started using Spektrum I really thought it was the best etc I had used to date, and I still have had ZERO problems with it and I see many, inc mine. working to perfection. SINCE then the Wea has arrived and my experience, not just opinion, is its streets ahead of Spektrum and FAAST in its capabilities which I have outlined. Not opinion , experience.

I agree customer service is at the opposite end of the scale to the quality of the hardware I will discuss it with them next month in Germany.

Mike I think your comment is rather unfair, I do ONLY relate my comments to my direct experience with equipment and the Wea IS a remarakable piece of kit. Proof: I fly it and I also fly JR12x 2.4 and Spektrum, ALL with total success and zero problems. I may discover problems with Wea, we were constantly finding minor glitches in the FMCs on early Boeing 737-300s, 767s and 757 despite all of their testing . They were all rapidly fixed. Wea can upgrade soft and firmware rapidly, too.


Xantos, I can guarantee nothing but I analyse the data for EVERY flight as recorded on the SD data card. EVERY flight has shown excellent results and remember it has TWO recivers in each unit. In India you may find the temp warning useful !

MN, I dont agree it needs military spec installations and batteries, I use twin Duralites and Mini Hobby regs at 5.6 v, regulators, zero problems. I am also using A13s, no problems.

Guys, this is my direct personal experience not just off the cuff opinons. I am no-ones rep.

I am in London now so if I can help please email me and I will give my UK tel no if I can be of any help. I also have my BobCat here with Wea 2.4 plus my mini laptop for data analysis, if you would like a demo.

Regards, David.

olnico

I do completely agree with David.
I am not a rep neither.
I have made a lot flights with my different Wea 2.4 systems and systematically analyses my flight data after each flight on my tiny Vaio laptop.
The radio link is rock solid on the Wea from my experience.
The only point of interrogation right now is that I have had 2 reports of problems with the Wea system on 2 different French military airfields due to an interaction with the ground radar.

On the contrary I've had a dreadful experience with Spektrum and have witnessed many, many problems in Dubai and Europe.
I also have a Futaba 12FG on FASST. I have not had a single problem with it. However, the Weatronic system technically outperforms the FASST system by a fair margin.
So my opinion is very clear on these different systems.

GrayUK

David
This is nothing new, Futaba have had this on FASST high end radios (8 , 12, 14 ) from release.

The unexplained lockouts on JR/Spektrum is one of the really frightening things about the system, there is no doubt that many people have absolutely no trouble with it at all and yet others just seem to fail, and strangely, the same type of failure is prevalent.
When you hear of the loss of 3 Jets, ......very scary! (and expensive)
Makes me glad I don’t use the system.

Very sorry for your loss.

Paul

Xantos

David/Morne

The 3 jets I have lost on JR DSM 9 have had almost similar set up.
All had twin lipos for receiver of appropriate capacities (2 x Powerbox 2800s) running thru either a Powerbox Sensor Switch or a Powerbox Evolution , I dont know what you mean by a Military spec installation but I do tend to use IMO whatever is the best commercially available equipment for my jets .

All 3 jets were over 50 flawless flights so therefore proven.
2 Jets crashed without going into failsafe. I could never find any reasonable answers, whereas one jet did actually go into failsafe and gear came down and turbine shutdown.

I've logged 150 flights last year and lost 2 jets last year - thats brings up a rate of failure of 1.3% (Unexplained Failure).
Every time the receivers or batteries if recovered in good condition after the crash have checked out OK

The first 2 crashes were close to within 1/2 a km.
The recent 3rd crash was really far away and we had only a distant visual of the airplane going down ,we had to search for a good 40 min before we found the wreckage.
Luckily in all 3 crashes there wasn't a fire and nobody was hurt.

Again my question is the radio link of a Weatronics really superior to JR or FUT ?
Are you guys saying Wea is better just because you can analyse flight data later ? What happens to failures in flight ?
Xantos

lavi rider

My Feedback: (6)

..

Nitro777

I have lost 4 aircraft to2.4spektrum/JR equipment. Switced to futaba 7C2.4 and has worked absolutely flawlessly. I'm am 110% convinced DSM has a seriousproblem. I know Futaba has a few problems of their own, but the DSM has many many many more issues.........Just look at all of the threads.

Steve Kent

People continuously question\debate the integrity of the RF link on the various systems but the fault may well be to do with the processing of the data after it is received at the RX. If the data processing hangs just like it sometimes does on your PC (these systems are not that dissimilar) we could possibly have a very similar situation to what caused my crash.

There is a lot more going on than simply sending & receiving.

RCFlyerDan

My Feedback: (54)

I have been flying JR/Spektrum for the past 3 years, on gas powered 33%-44% IMAC planes and 3 different turbines, with first the 9303 w/2.4 module, then the 2.4 9303 and now the 12X. I add additional satillites to fill every plug in point for the receiver. I believe that for $29, each satillite is additional insurance. My receivers are the AR9100 for the gas, and JR 1221 for the turbines. When I bind, I first turn off the receiver prior to removing the bind plug. I have seen the bind lost if not. After learning in the beginning that you need enough mah and/or higher voltage on the receivers, I haven't had an issue. I just make sure during every preflight, that all of the receiver lights come on and are not blinking. I have also secured the plugs to each of the satillite receivers, since the little plugs can easily be unplugs during assembly or other adjustments inside of the fuselage. I am knocking on wood that I don't have issues now that I have chatted about it!! LOL>>>>>>>Good Luck!

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

I have been flying FASST for several years now, no issues. It appears that the heat issue is in the past. I have not used the JR system. From my readings here and else where, I do indeed agree that the Weatronics 2.4 GHz solution appears to be absolutely the closest to bullet proof that is currently available. I would have converted my Futaba 12FG over to Weat by now, if it was not for the abysmal support and abysmal availability of gear here in the USA.

If they ever fix that, I will be a Weatronics customer.

David Gladwin

Xantos. its very difficult indeed to answer your question. What I can say is that with both Spektrum and JR DSM 2.4 I have not seen a single lost frame and all my machines so equipped also have the data logger which I check after every flight. Also use every possible satellite receiver. . So, for me and many many others, the systems have been perfect. I have no experience with Futaba FAAST but it has an extremely good repuation. However, the Wea system does offer far more data to analyse (inc Rf strength and signal quality for both receiving channels) and so far mine have been perfect. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance, thats life !

I can say no more except that I have not heard of a single problem with Wea 2.4. I understand that the problem Olnico reports on a French airfield with radar may well have been caused by a signal induced in the long leads bewtween the receiver and servos and NOT a receiver problem.


I am absolutely paranoid about having the best possible radios in my jets my preference is for the Weatronics system and to date my faith in the system has not gone unrewarded. My entire fleet, 11 jets, is being progressively converted to Wea 2.4

Steve is right too, the rf link may be perfect but subsequent processing may be the problem.

Regards, David.

Nitro777

My question is why arepeople having to add so much security/insurance/money to these DSM systems that the manufacturers are claiming to be top of the line technology for this sport? I don't fly big expensive stuff so I don't know what all the neccessary equipment is, but I lost 4 simple planes after setting them up exactly how the Spektrummanual said to . And yes all of my other equipment(servos, batteries, wires)were performing flawlessly. I know this becauseall of this equipment(minus the DSMsystem)is now inmy otheraircraftthat amazingly have not crashed and had no problems since I swithched toFAAST technology. Ibuy a product because of what the manufacturer claims it can do. If it can't do what they claim then I won't buy it. So far DSM technology does not consistantly stay up to par IMO with what the manufacturer claims. That's not to say that other manfacturers don't have issues.They do but itdoesn't seem that they are as common.I just think that all of these threads about the failures of DSM goes to show that something is up and the manufacturer needs to look into it. I'm not trying to bash, I'm only using a little common sense observation. Every manufacturer should do this.

lavi rider

My Feedback: (6)

I 'm very pleased with the customer support from Weatronic their response to my customers needs was flawless ....

If you need anything PM me .

Regards

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

I found Weatronic customer service to be a bit of a mixed bag. IMO Gerhard does seem to try very hard to help, but he simply does not understand the system well enough to be able to answer various questions (kinda like dealing with the front-line IT support guys at work - if it can be fixed by a reboot or by clearing out the settings in IE, etc. then they can fix it - anything more has to be referred to someone else). When Gerhard can't provide a meaningful answer, the question has to go to Alvin, who can't communicate well enough in English to be able to properly understand the question and answer it.

IMO, there has been better support for Weatronic here in the forums from guys like Oliver, David Gladwin, Ali et al, than from official channels. I do see that as a fairly significant shortcoming. Perhaps Weatronic needs to sign up some genuinely knowledgeable rep's to fill the gap.

Gordon

basimpsn

My Feedback: (5)

Ok you got me on that one LOL. I have seen too many unexplained crashes. So I started doing these safety redundancy setup and was impressed seeing it work. I did this long before Weatronics came out with their equipment. But to your question yes one battery for each receiver and for now 72mhz.

AndyAndrews

Wasn't there some issue in Europe regarding the power of the frequency on 2.4, ie being less than what is here in the USA?

Steve Kent

I really don't think range & power output is anything to do with this problem as all the issues I have seen or heard of have been at close range. When my PST Reacton crashed it locked out directly in front of me less than 50 meters away & about 100 feet altitude. I have even had an AR9000 lockout on the ground after starting the engine & fortunately just prior to taking off & with the model only 2 meters away.

That was the last time I used JR 2.4 for anything other than parkfly models.