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Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

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Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Old 06-06-2010, 08:33 AM
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lavi rider
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Default Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Yesterday, my friend lost his Fei-Bao MB339 due to his JR12x 2.4 system....it happened on his third flight that day when the model "went" into a strange situation the servos moved and slightly rolled the plane and the engine went to full throtle....it flew uncontrolled for some 10 seconds before it went in.

The model has logged some thirty flights in all.

After some inspection surprisingly the receiver still "works" and when connecting the servos to it they all move to a certain point and the throttle command is to full power.. I have to state that there was no Fail-Safe dialed in ever... and it stays like that without regaining control over the servos at all....it's locked..

Has anyone out there encountered a situation like this?

Old 06-06-2010, 09:03 AM
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bcovish
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Just curious, how can you tell that the throttle command was to full power?
Old 06-06-2010, 09:47 AM
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snobird
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Sorry Liva, were you using a powerbox on 2.4 ??
Old 06-06-2010, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

What happens when the Tx is turned off? Does the Rx then go into FAILSAFE? What does the readout/graph in the Tx show?
Just trying to determine if the problem is in the Rx or the Tx.
Old 06-06-2010, 09:53 PM
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Guillermo Ibanez
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Did you set the ECU fail safe as per turbine instructions?

I didn't and when I turned my transmitter off (Futaba 12FGA) to enter the range test on transmitter power on, the turbine was running and it went to max throttle. Fortunately a friend was holding the jet.

When I entered the ECU failsafe instructions, the throttle was reversed........
Old 06-07-2010, 02:37 AM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Hi All
I am a JR user and use both the 9X and the 12X and I have had 3 unexplained lockouts using the JR 2.4 DSM Technology over a period of last 2 years.
All 3 model were well set up with many flights logged on them.
I've lost one Kingcat , one Bandit and lately a Rookie
All setups were with redundant power supply, powerbox etc
I have never been able to explain why ?
IMHO the JR DSM tech is definitely flawed somewhere the rate of unexplained failure is too high.
There will be people out there who'll swear by the JR DSM system until somethin happens and is unexplained.
What Lavi describes is exactly what happened in my last crash & the receiver worked perfectly after the crash.
Xantos
Old 06-07-2010, 03:52 AM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

After your initial radio setup was complete - did you re-bind the system?
Old 06-07-2010, 05:54 AM
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lavi rider
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

The aircraft logged some 30 ! Flights before this incident, we have some five other Jets all on JR systems plus one who is running on Weatronic....I had the same experience with a Euro Sport last year again on a JR system.

All setups were according to spec i.e throttle fail safe and so on....

Receiver is still locked and the engine TX menu on the GSU shows throttle at 100%....
Flight was filmed from the ground ...The information is according to eye witnesses on site and my friend ..
Old 06-07-2010, 05:58 AM
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lavi rider
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

...
Old 06-07-2010, 06:37 AM
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Steve Kent
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Lavi

I had a similar incident last year with my PST Reaction. This was configured with dual batteries (large 4600 mha 5 cell nimhas nose weight was required) the failsafe was set to cut the engine completely after 2 seconds & put the gear & flaps down. On the third flight of the day doing a slow role at about 100 feet the model stopped responding & just kept rolling to the right until it hit the ground about 8 to 10 seconds later & about 500 meters away.

The engine definitely didn't failsafe but just kept a constant setting, I don't know 100% about the gear & the flaps but I don't think they came down either. This was all double checked to be working correctly by one of our club model inspectors as all turbine models have to be signed off before flight & have the failsafe setting checked. The model had completed 15 successful flights prior to this incident.

I have been a JR user for about 20 years with no other issues at all prior to 2.4gig but I am seeing an uncomfortable number of these incidents & in most cases people are reporting that the failsafe didn't operate which is the most alarming bit.

I now only use JR\Spectrum for park fly type models, but no doubt someone will be along shortly to blame a poor instalation again.
Old 06-07-2010, 07:38 AM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

I have always been concerned with the effects of static on jets and R/C equipment with lots of processors like on 2.4. On the incidents you guys experienced, which turbine/ecu combos were you using? What was the humidity/temp like?
Andre

Old 06-07-2010, 07:53 AM
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rcjet lynch
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Lavi

Do you know if your friend is flying with the stock battery in his Tx or a lipo? Also what RX did he have in the plane?
Old 06-07-2010, 08:28 AM
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Steve Kent
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

JetCat P120 SX on a cool dry day from what I remember of it.
Old 06-07-2010, 08:53 AM
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basimpsn
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

I always used two receiver with two battery's. I have seen during flight one receiver going into fail safe by dropping L/G or throttling down and up the turbine[X(] but still have enough control from the other receiver to land. Its hard for me to trust a single receiver and battery setup.
Old 06-07-2010, 02:46 PM
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Rush!
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Can you do twin receviers on a 2.4GHZ radio? 
Old 06-07-2010, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz


ORIGINAL: Rush!

Can you do twin receviers on a 2.4GHZ radio?
yes
Old 06-07-2010, 02:55 PM
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AndyAndrews
 
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz


ORIGINAL: Rush!

Can you do twin receviers on a 2.4GHZ radio?
I believe the Weatronics units have dual 2.4 rx's.

What where the JR RX model numbers on the lockouts?
Old 06-07-2010, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

ORIGINAL: basimpsn

I always used two receiver with two battery's. I have seen during flight one receiver going into fail safe by dropping L/G or throttling down and up the turbine[X(] but still have enough control from the other receiver to land. Its hard for me to trust a single receiver and battery setup.
Is that two receivers with two battery's each?

If so and its JR 2.4Ghz then we have at least four Rx's with one remote each and four batteries.

Your by line is a bit ironic LOL: "It''''s a hobby - keep it simple"

Mike
Old 06-07-2010, 03:26 PM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

I had the same issue as described above. Over the last 2 years I lost 3 jets while using a JR 10X and a Spektrum module. Fail safe never kicked in for any of the crashes. After the first one went inI added more redundency and greater capacity receiver packs. For all three crashes, the jet rolled to the right and the throttle stayed at the setting it was at before the signal was lost. After losing my Starfire last year at Jets Over Whidbey, I stopped using Spektrum and have not had a single problem with FAAST. The guys I fly with use the JR 12X non-module Tx and none of them have had a problem. For me, the lost of three planes has caused me to lose confidence in the Spektrum system.

Kirk
Old 06-07-2010, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz



I have been flying JR for many years (on 72) with no problems. I decided to go to 2.4 but after seeing all of the problems with JR including a lockout of an electric plane with a fresh battery right after making a good flight with no problems. I went to the New Hitec system. So far it has been great! about 30 flights now. I really think JR needs to look at the frequency hoping technology.

Sorry to hear about your loss.
Old 06-07-2010, 04:08 PM
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AndyAndrews
 
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

The only issue I had was when I changed out the antenna on my 12x. I was messin around with some settings on a jet on the bench and the controls locked out. Upon further inspection, the tiny little cable connection that connects the antenna to the board popped off. That really gave me the creeps so I glued it back on. It aint commin off on its own again..

But, on another note, if you are using the cheapo Spectrum RX's you are asking for trouble. Even Horizon admits that these are not as good as their high end JR rx's.

Andy
Old 06-07-2010, 04:17 PM
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Gordon Mc
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz


ORIGINAL: k_sonn

I had the same issue as described above. Over the last 2 years I lost 3 jets while using a JR 10X and a Spektrum module. Fail safe never kicked in for any of the crashes. After the first one went in I added more redundency and greater capacity receiver packs. For all three crashes, the jet rolled to the right and the throttle stayed at the setting it was at before the signal was lost. After losing my Starfire last year at Jets Over Whidbey, I stopped using Spektrum and have not had a single problem with FAAST. The guys I fly with use the JR 12X non-module Tx and none of them have had a problem. For me, the lost of three planes has caused me to lose confidence in the Spektrum system.

Kirk
Problems with plug-in modules with the 10X have unfortunately been pretty common.

From what I've been told, JR has developed a replacement module which is supposed to work better. I'm in no hurry to try it though.

Gordon
Old 06-07-2010, 04:45 PM
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Steve Kent
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Reply to BASIMPSN re the use of twin RX.

Using the DSM system this would require the use of the Power Box Systems RRS unit or similar. As my engine didn't fail safe the RX was obviously putting out a good signal to the engine ECU even though it was in a locked state so I have doubt that in this case it would have been of any benefit. The RRS depends on a spare channel being set as a fail safe channel to detect RX switching & in my case the fail safe didn't operate correctly.

I do agree with building in redundancy as appropriate & if the size of model allows sufficient space to be available however but don't think it would have helped in this case using dual DSM RX's.

Reply to Adny Andrews re what RX

In my case an AR9100 with 4 remote receivers & 2 x 4600 mha 5 cell NiMh. In all flights prior to the crash there had been a few fades on the remote RX's (nothing excessive at all but it's too long ago to give exact numbers) but not a single frame loss.

TX was a JR DSX9, not a module conversion.

Reply to KSON

Yes I have now switched to FASST for my smaller jets & to date have not had a single issue although with only 23 flights with FASST on jets (100's with heli's & sport models) I don't think this is anything like enough to make any sort of comparison. May be when I have 500 or more I would start to trust FASST. My larger jets are back on 35 meg using Weatronic dual receivers for the time being but due to second hand equipment flooding the market in the UK as everyone converts to 2.4 & reports of inappropriate use of this kit I am now just as worried of getting shot down as I am about the potential bugs in the 2.4 kit.

Old 06-07-2010, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

Rob I am using a transmitter lipo. Is this bad news?
Old 06-07-2010, 10:50 PM
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Default RE: Total lock out on JR12 2.4Ghz

My friend just lost his 50cc plane due to a lockout, he said it reconnected 5 times then down it went... this has me really scuuured.... all his equipment and plane is all new this wasnt on his maiden or anything just not that many flights. 9303 2.4 with AR9100 RX running dual duralite ions.. anyone know what causes lockouts?

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