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Dragon wing failure.

Old 08-15-2010, 02:26 PM
  #26  
as722
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: jthomas235

Albert,

Having looked at how your wing mounting tab was secured, I thought I'd examine the wing of my crashed Dragon. The attached pictures are the results. I wonder if this was one of the ones they ''checked'' after being informed there was a issue.

I really see no way of fixing this correctly on wings that are built and painted. The attachment method of the mounting tab to the wing skin is less than adequate in my opinion. There is a gap between the aluminum tab and ''balsa'' wing skin of about 1/4''............as you can see in the pic, they just ''kind of'' filled the area with some adhesive foreign to me. To be honest, looks like something my sister would do.

John

Thanks for the pics. John, no wonder mine broke ! It really would not cost much more to build them right.


Albert
Old 08-15-2010, 02:33 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Holy crap..the more i hear about all of your guys misfortune the more i feel ANTON needs to get off his keester and start writing checks for EVERYTHING that was lost due to their serious lack of engineering on these models. And to think i had intentions of putting a deposit down for a Viperjet 2m.. not anymore, i'll go with the tomahawk one instead.
Old 08-15-2010, 02:39 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

I think anyone who has a skymater kit is better off opening a hole in their wing and gluing a hardwood block to the ric and skin, as mentioned above. after that - some hysol and a bolt through the tab to the block would do the trick.

Its not ideal having to open an ARF's wing, but it sure beats a crash which is almost inevidable with this kind of glue joint on these tabs.
Old 08-15-2010, 02:41 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

How long would it take for SM to make the necessary corrections if SM had to replace those planes to the owners of the ones that failed in flight and lost everything. SM would be out of business if it had to do just that. There should be a halt in production till this problem is fixed. Not just with the Dragon but a total and thorough inspect of all their jets that utilze this fastening technique. They should bare the responsibility for their product. I know they want to benefit from the profit of every sale with their hand out. But responsible business behavior also means standing behind their product and not hiding or dodging the bullet when it comes to design flaws that are glaring back at them in their own eyes. There should be an accountability for this. Is SM misrepresenting their products? Do they feel amune to their product failures?

Like Albert mentioned, other jet pilots are turning away from the Dragon and possibly SM for any future purchases..

I myself was very interested in the F-18.. at the price they were offering I found it very attractive... but I'm now looking to invest my equipt. in a different product that will remain intact for more than a few flights.
Old 08-15-2010, 02:43 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


Here is a post on the identical problem on the Viper thread....dated more than a year ago....April 2009.

"MOST IMPORTANT!! After only 4 flight the wing retaining aluminum sleeves were nearly pulled out of wings. Couple more flights and the wing might have slipped off!!! Wing gap kept growing after each flight."

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_87..._2/key_/tm.htm


And here is Anton's response to that post....

"Thank you very much for the review with suggested, I will meeting with my staffs as soon, and we will check out all your points..and I will promise to you for Improve these points"


Sound familiar?

As good as Jeff has been at providing support, all of the SM reps should be writing some excoriating PMs to Anton on behalf of the customers.
Old 08-15-2010, 03:00 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: jthomas235

Albert,

Having looked at how your wing mounting tab was secured, I thought I'd examine the wing of my crashed Dragon. The attached pictures are the results. I wonder if this was one of the ones they ''checked'' after being informed there was a issue.

I really see no way of fixing this correctly on wings that are built and painted. The attachment method of the mounting tab to the wing skin is less than adequate in my opinion. There is a gap between the aluminum tab and ''balsa'' wing skin of about 1/4''............as you can see in the pic, they just ''kind of'' filled the area with some adhesive foreign to me. To be honest, looks like something my sister would do.

John
Just to set the record straight, I did not loose my Dragon due to a failed wing tab. Mine was caused by a weld failure of the strap securing exhaust pipe, allowing hot exhaust to fill the rear portion of fuselage, melting the wires to the 3 servos in stab and weakening of rear portion of fuse (started to fold on the vertical dive down prior to impact). Not meaning to hijack this thread, but I don't think starting another is worth it. Bottom line, this was the worst (most expensive) crash I've had in 35 years of flying. I was not "afraid" of letting this cat out of the bag, it just took a while to get over the total loss. And, no, I did not want to go through the hassle of trying to get Skymaster to replace my jet. I've seen too many guys fight that battle with less than satisfactory results. If Skymaster is listening, perhaps some of these pictures of customer aircraft will open their eyes.

John

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Old 08-15-2010, 03:20 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Thank you Albert and Hooker.

When Albert cuts his wing open we will try to figure out how best to reinforce my Dragon.

Doane (kingair) you are right on target. And like I said before, it doesn't take any longer or cost any more to do the job right the first time!
Old 08-15-2010, 03:20 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

John, I've a feeling SM are not going to get away with this one!, it's a bit too serious to ignore, to say nothing of the danger of being put in hospital by one of these failures.
Gary.
p.s. Duncan, if you are reading this check your Viper out!
Old 08-15-2010, 03:33 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Most of you have probably read my issues with the ir F-100. Anton came on here about giving me a new kit. I asked him why would I want a new kit as it would still have the same problems. I never heard back from him. I e-mailed him and John directly and asking the same question and of course never heard back. Jeff Tomelo says that my e-mails keep getting kicked back so I keep needing to e-mail him etc etc. Even though I can e-mail every one in the world with no problems. Something smells like BULL***** TO ME.

Anyone who has issues like this and will continue to buy from them are severly retatrded. I wish they would've sent me another kit. I would've ***** on one and then covered it up with the other.

I cannot believe that BVM models sells this *****. I have done buisness with them knowing that the products that he sells are top of the line. Well this will be the end of my buisness with them too. This is a 4K loss in my book. and BVM is part of the blame.

Chinese ARFS are all ***** and always will be *****. Just another foreign country taking advantage of us idiots that buy there product and take it up the *****

Old 08-15-2010, 03:51 PM
  #35  
as722
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Anton,

There's a lot of people waiting for a response, damage control please.


Albert
Old 08-15-2010, 04:03 PM
  #36  
racer8297
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Easy guys, it's 5 in the morning in Taipai right now! A 12 hour time difference. Give him a chance. They should be at the office in 3 hours or so. Give them an hour to figure this out. Alright, half an hour .
Old 08-15-2010, 04:08 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

He has had 18 months! The answer he has given this time is the same one he gave then...'staff look into it'. This isn't a new problem with a new kit. For the sake of safety, let-alone customer relations, he has had more than enough time don't you think?
Old 08-15-2010, 04:14 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Easy there STKNRUD. Yes, you are right. I was merely pointing out that while it's day time here and people want answers now it's night time over there. When you wake up tomorrow morning and there are no (or insufficient) answers from Anton then I would say that the "new Skymaster" is still the old Skymaster.
Old 08-15-2010, 04:18 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

i have over 100 flights on my dragon with no wing problems, what you have to do is drill and tap a 6-32 hole in each carbon fiber rod end (trailing edge wing alignment rod), then drop some hysol in the hole and screw a 6-32 hex and cut the head off.......install the wing on the plane....now from the inside of the plane (next to turbine) secure the wing with a large washer and a butterfly nut...
HOPE THIS HELP
Old 08-15-2010, 04:20 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

OK, I'll wait. But I think you are wrong...it was the same Anton that answer the same problem the same way 18 months ago. What's NEW about that? To my knowledge,the kits with this problem haven't changed in those 18 months.

And I will pull my posts and apologize personally and publicly if there is some concrete evidence that this kit was somehow "unique" and the design was changed.
Old 08-15-2010, 04:24 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Jetsflying,

Thanks for the input. I presently use the screw that I fashioned to hold the rear anti rotation pins in place. But Luis's plane losing a canopy in knife edge and my canopy blowing off for no reason and only 3/4 of an inch of aluminum tab inserted into the wing and then improperly fastened (glued) are the issues. And the lack of communication is unacceptable!
Old 08-15-2010, 04:29 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

i agree 100%
Old 08-15-2010, 04:51 PM
  #43  
as722
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

ORIGINAL: jetsflying

what you have to do is drill and tap a 6-32 hole in each carbon fiber rod end (trailing edge wing alignment rod), then drop some hysol in the hole and screw a 6-32 hex and cut the head off.......install the wing on the plane....now from the inside of the plane (next to turbine) secure the wing with a large washer and a butterfly nut...
HOPE THIS HELP

It should read what Anton has to do. I can come up with many ways to fix it so it doesn't happen again but I should'n have to.


Albert
Old 08-15-2010, 05:21 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

This is how the wing was positioned and secured to my Dragon which is a couple of years old. I've found it hard to imagine how the wing could separate from the fuselage enough to disengage all the pins and rotate, even if the flat aluminum POS failed: Note: the front pin is a male/female joint, the center flat aluminum piece has a screw to hold to fuse, the rear pin is tapped with a screw being installed from inside turbine access hatch.

Is this a case where critical parts that were installed on older Dragons were removed from the latest design to save a few pennies? Reminds me of a similar incident where Skymaster elected to omit a critical stab bulkhead AND spar for the vertical fin several months back on the Dragon. My flying partner almost lost his new Dragon over that brilliant decision. How and why would you omit a bulkhead AND spar from a critical flying surface? If these guys were in the nuclear industry, heads would be rolling. See video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mvpr...eature=channel

John Thomas (I'll use my full name since there are a few Johns involved in this thread)
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Old 08-15-2010, 05:21 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Guys when SkyMaster got rid of the Hawaii guys such as Duke and family things started
to go down hill from their and in my opinion has not recovered. I purchased an early F-18
from SkyMaster and the quality of the kit was very good. Now it seems as if SkyMaster is back to the
old trick of letting paying customers find all the flaws with their kits and it seems as if quality
control has gone out of the window. Thanks for posting this information and keeping us up to date...

P. Richards aka SwatTeam
Old 08-15-2010, 09:22 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

You don't even get what you pay for, any more!
Old 08-16-2010, 12:18 AM
  #47  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Guys, could there be more problems than just the wing tabs?

The spar of my buddy's dragon wing bowed into a camber after only a few flights powered by a titan.
In this case, because the wing did not break off, we are able to see that the spar is just about to fail, had it buckled, no matter how strong the wing tab would be able to save it.
I can not say what gave way first on your misfortunes, assuming they have the same spars, then it is something really needs to be looked into.

All the best to (ex)dragon owners and skymaster,

Barry
Old 08-16-2010, 12:28 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Hi,

Yellow Aircraft ARFs are made in China and they're not crap at all. They're excellent airplanes and SAFE TO FLY.
Old 08-16-2010, 12:53 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: as722

I had posted some info on other threads but I decided to start a new one to let anyone who owns a dragon know about the problem. First I'll start by saying I absolutely loved the way the plane flew, last saturday as I was doing a KE pass the left wing came off, after walking to the crash site I noticed the aluminium tab was still attached to the fuse. I was surprised to see that it was VERY short and as the pictures will show it only went into the wing 3/4''. I was surprised as I thought it was a lot longer and better secured. I had a few guys tell me to post it on rcu but I decided I would privately e-mail Anton first but he never replied. I then tried to get a hold of him here on rcu but no luck neither even though he answered someone else's question during the same time. I wasn't looking for a discount or a free plane, I've flown long enough to know that as they say ***** happens. All I wanted to know was if he had heard of this before and if I bought another dragon this would not happen again. It's a real shame because I really wanted another one as it really is one of the best kept secrets and excellent value for the money. If you own a dragon please check these tabs !


Albert
Hi Albert

Sorry to hear about it.But unluckily we didn't receive your e-mail actually.Can you please resend e-mail to us?

Best regards

John
Skymaster
skymasterjets@263.net
Old 08-16-2010, 01:12 AM
  #50  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Yikes I have a current SM Dragon all ready for it's first maiden.

After reading this i think back to the drawing board and need to go over all wing attachments just in case...

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