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Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Old 08-18-2010, 10:43 PM
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bevar
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Default Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Guys,

The AMA just posted a new change to the turbine waiver test. It is up on the website now.

I am glad they clarified what needs to be done and what needs to be used for the test. It pretty much eliminates any doubt or post waiver questions now on who/what/when/where ETC.

Kudos to the AMA...

Beave

>>The qualification flight shall be completed by the following method:
1) Fixed wing: The qualification flight will be performed with a turbine powered model weighing at
least 12 pounds (dry). The applicant must first have flown the turbine powered model on a buddy box
with an experienced turbine pilot in control of the master transmitter. The experienced turbine pilot
will assist the applicant with as many flights as necessary until satisfied that the applicant is prepared
for the qualification flight after which the experienced turbine pilot will declare the applicant qualified
to perform the qualification flight flying solo without buddy box assistance. As part of the
application process, the applicant will demonstrate general knowledge of turbine
operation/maintenance, such as ECU configuration, fail-safe set-up, firefighting equipment,
turbine lag management, etc.
Old 08-18-2010, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

great news
Old 08-18-2010, 11:01 PM
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SinCityJets
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

That is a great change! Strykers and Habus just don't translate.....
Old 08-18-2010, 11:09 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

so the funjet with the kolibri isn't gonna cut it, bummer, lol

Kevin
Old 08-18-2010, 11:14 PM
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Gordon Mc
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...


ORIGINAL: bevar
>>The qualification flight shall be completed by the following method:
1) Fixed wing: The qualification flight will be performed with a turbine powered model weighing at
least 12 pounds (dry).
Hmmm - so I guess that guys whose first turbine powered model is a little P20 or Kolibri powered model weighing less than 12lbs are now SOL ? They can't get a waiver even on their turbine powered model... what are they supposed to do ? Are they really expected to buy a bigger model and turbine just to get waivered on ? Or will they just fly renegade without a waiver since the reg change appears to have screwed them ?

Gordon
Old 08-18-2010, 11:21 PM
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John Redman
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

I would have to say with the current wording then yes, they would be screwed. Life isn't fair and this is a great step forward in the process. Sometimes you have to pony up,ot uch you can do about it. Not a victory for all, but a definite step in the right direction for the entire turbine community.

I believe we will see a few more changes before the end of the year which will benefit us as well.

I am sure a few will argue, heck that is what this forum is all about. Flame suit on.
Old 08-18-2010, 11:26 PM
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bevar
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Gordon,

Chances are that a first turbine won't be a Kolibri or a P-20 powered jet for an applicant. How many have actually been sold so far anyway? Not too many I believe. You can't make the rules fit everyone...but they must be for the better of the whole group...not just one or two...and that's what the changes reflect.

Beave


ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc


ORIGINAL: bevar
>>The qualification flight shall be completed by the following method:
1) Fixed wing: The qualification flight will be performed with a turbine powered model weighing at
least 12 pounds (dry).
Hmmm - so I guess that guys whose first turbine powered model is a little P20 or Kolibri powered model weighing less than 12lbs are now SOL ? They can't get a waiver even on their turbine powered model... what are they supposed to do ? Are they really expected to buy a bigger model and turbine just to get waivered on ? Or will they just fly renegade without a waiver since the reg change appears to have screwed them ?

Gordon
Old 08-18-2010, 11:34 PM
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Gordon Mc
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...


ORIGINAL: bevar

Gordon,

Chances are that a first turbine won't be a Kolibri or a P-20 powered jet for an applicant. How many have actually been sold so far anyway? Not too many I believe. You can't make the rules fit everyone...but they must be for the better of the whole group...not just one or two...and that's what the changes reflect.

Beave
Not many sold yet since the P20 is not widely available yet - but I know of 3 guys in my local club alone who have been looking forward to getting into the turbine side of the hobby with the smaller models that this size of turbine would be good for. I sincerely doubt that thee guys are going to buy a much larger model just to pass a test that lets them fly the small models they want to fly. Chances are that they will now just go fly without a waiver when they think no-one is looking.

Personally, I don't see how increasing the number of guys who will likely fly turbines without a waiver, will in any way be 'for the better of the whole group'. Seems to me that the change was not thoroughly thought out to see what 'unintended consequences' it might bring about.

Gordon

Old 08-18-2010, 11:38 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Gordon,

I guess you have better tell them to buy P-60s or Super Bees instead. They are cheaper anyway...yes?

Beave



ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc


ORIGINAL: bevar

Gordon,

Chances are that a first turbine won't be a Kolibri or a P-20 powered jet for an applicant. How many have actually been sold so far anyway? Not too many I believe. You can't make the rules fit everyone...but they must be for the better of the whole group...not just one or two...and that's what the changes reflect.

Beave
Not many sold yet since the P20 is not widely available yet - but I know of 3 guys in my local club alone who have been looking forward to getting into the turbine side of the hobby with the smaller models that this size of turbine would be good for. I sincerely doubt that thee guys are going to buy a much larger model just to pass a test that lets them fly the small models they want to fly. Chances are that they will now just go fly without a waiver when they think no-one is looking.

Personally, I don't see how increasing the number of guys who will likely fly turbines without a waiver, will in any way be 'for the better of the whole group'. Seems to me that the change was not thoroughly thought out to see what 'unintended consequences' it might bring about.

Gordon

Old 08-18-2010, 11:48 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Beave
Where did you find the new flight test qualification rules. I saw the old flight test rules but not the new.

Thanks
Old 08-18-2010, 11:52 PM
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bevar
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Here it is.

Beave
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Qo40936.pdf (163.1 KB, 29 views)
Old 08-18-2010, 11:56 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Thanks

I went and looked at it again and the old rules are still there.
Old 08-18-2010, 11:58 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

I posted the wrong link...sorry. It's 510-a, not d.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-a.pdf

Oops...

Beave

Old 08-19-2010, 12:01 AM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Got it, thanks
Old 08-19-2010, 01:47 AM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...


ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc


ORIGINAL: bevar

Gordon,

Chances are that a first turbine won't be a Kolibri or a P-20 powered jet for an applicant. How many have actually been sold so far anyway? Not too many I believe. You can't make the rules fit everyone...but they must be for the better of the whole group...not just one or two...and that's what the changes reflect.

Beave
Not many sold yet since the P20 is not widely available yet - but I know of 3 guys in my local club alone who have been looking forward to getting into the turbine side of the hobby with the smaller models that this size of turbine would be good for. I sincerely doubt that thee guys are going to buy a much larger model just to pass a test that lets them fly the small models they want to fly. Chances are that they will now just go fly without a waiver when they think no-one is looking.

Personally, I don't see how increasing the number of guys who will likely fly turbines without a waiver, will in any way be 'for the better of the whole group'. Seems to me that the change was not thoroughly thought out to see what 'unintended consequences' it might bring about.

Gordon


Well Said...................... Who are the AMA anyway....... what do they know
Old 08-19-2010, 07:09 AM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

[&o] currant waiver holders have to be re tested??[X(]
Old 08-19-2010, 07:32 AM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Current waiver holders do not have to be re-tested as I read the rules, however, you do have to complete at least 20 flights in the past 24 months to be current (which may mean: to retain your waiver).

Regards,
Old 08-19-2010, 10:05 AM
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David Jackson
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...


ORIGINAL: jetjockey

Current waiver holders do not have to be re-tested as I read the rules, however, you do have to complete at least 20 flights in the past 24 months to be current (which may mean: to retain your waiver).

Regards,
How are they to verify that you've had the required number of flights in the 24 month period? Unless there is someone physically at the field counting my flights, then I have met the requirements. [8D]
Old 08-19-2010, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

David, AMA' 510-A #23 will explain and answer your question and # of fights rcorded.
Old 08-19-2010, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

I don't really understand the weight limit. But its good to see a little clarification.
Old 08-19-2010, 12:21 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

I have to agree that few will enter the market at the Kolibri / Funjet stage. Having sold a few dozen Kolibri's, only one that I can think of was to a guy just entering turbines. These micro turbines are expensive and more of a novelty (although they seem to just run and run) and are usually "in addition to" a decent stable.

If it does nothing else than keep people from getting their waiver on a Habu or Funjet for that matter, then I'm happy with it. Those aircraft don't translate to flying any heavy metal, or even something as simple and nice flying as a Bandit or Flash.

Just my .02

Chad
Old 08-19-2010, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...


ORIGINAL: jetjockey

Current waiver holders do not have to be re-tested as I read the rules, however, you do have to complete at least 20 flights in the past 24 months to be current (which may mean: to retain your waiver).

Regards,
hm,
i don´t think that the waiver becomes invalid if you don´t complete the 20 flights.
Seems to me that you are just not called 'experienced pilot' then and you don´t have the permission to be the master on the buddy-box.. You are still allowed to fly alone..


Old 08-19-2010, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

Although I'm sure it's a positive step overall I'm glad I have my waiver already.
I doubt I ever would have turned the master controls of my Tx & jet over to anyone.

Expensive planes are like motorcycles.
I don't ask to ride yours, you don't ask to ride mine. If you offer, I will decline because I don't want you to expect reciprocation.
I don't care how long you say you have been riding, if something goes wrong (and it will at these excact times) we will have serious issues.

It now makes the powerplant and minimum weight a requirement and eliminates the foamy issue.
These are changes that should have been made long ago.

However, it does nothing to address those who don't take the responsiblity of signing someone off as a serious matter.
I'm afraid the potential for someone to sign off on their unqualified, left turn only, BFF still exists.
Old 08-19-2010, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

What do you mean?????.....no one would ever sign off their unqualified, left turn only, BFF.

Please note the sarcasm.
Old 08-19-2010, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...

I was curious on the experienced waiver part of the waiver so I called the AMA and asked for clarifacation. I was told that the twenty flights was just to be considered experienced and to sign off waivers in addition to CDs. The AMA will not revoke your waiver for not having enough flights. The only reason I bring this up is because I have heard it both ways but this is straight fom the AMA.

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