FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

The AMA Today email arrived today with a short blurb on the upcoming ruling by the AMA. Clicking on the link takes you to an AMA page that says:

FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations

For the past three years the AMA has been involved in the rulemaking process aimed at establishing regulations for all unmanned aircraft systems, and we have worked directly with the FAA in an effort to ensure these regulations will not have a detrimental impact on the aeromodeling community. The FAA intends to present the proposed rule for public comment in a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NMPR) in June 2011, and it has become increasingly apparent that the proposed rule will be highly restrictive and will have a significant impact on the modeling community as a whole. It’s time for all of us to understand these proposed changes, familiarize ourselves with the regulatory process, and to prepare an appropriate response to the proposed regulations. Click the link below for background.

– Rich Hanson, AMA Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs Representative

I don't know about you folks but "highly restrictive" doesn't sound very encouraging to me. [:o][:o] While it's my own personal speculation, I can't imagine that large, powerful, and fast models (eg turbine powered models) will not be affected by the ruling.

Regards,

Jim

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

I've had my eye on that as well..
I really hope it doesn't hurt us, that would suck. It's seems we have enough problems losing feilds and making peace with our neighbors. Now big brother wants to step in and mess with us also.
The hobby is such a small segment and has been around for many years. I hope they will respect it and remember how many great aviators, engineers, and scientist have come from a back ground in RC.

It's hard enough to get kids interested in the hobby and keep it going, please FAA don't snuff us out... I think you will have more problems with guys just going out and flying where ever they can find a spot, safe or unsafe.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

I have heard a few things that might change, but the main one that really shocked me was the "400 Foot 100mph max", for all r/c aircraft. this would have an effect on just about all areas of r/c......


as I was told through the grape vines.


Mark

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

I need to see that in print, rumors can only make things worse

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Good thing the Tucano only goes 90. If nothing else...at least I'll still be burning kero.

B [X(]

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

The FAA SUAS ARC recommendations are available to read on the AMA website:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/faa/recommendations.pdf

Section 3 does contain the following restrictions:

Model Aircraft shall not use turbine-powered engines (e.g., turbo-fan, turbo-jet) as
a propulsion source.

Model Aircraft shall operate in close proximity to the ground, at or below
400 feet (’) above ground level (AGL), and shall at all times remain below and well
clear of all manned aircraft.

Model Aircraft cannot be operated at airspeeds which exceed 100 mph
(87 knots).



However, those restrictions were in the section entitled "Model Aircraft Not Operated in Accordance with
Accepted Set of Standards" - meaning that these rules would apply to non-AMA member operated model aircraft. In exchange, the AMA was going to work with the FAA to forge a set of "operating rules" for AMA members that would exempt them from this section of the rules.

It would seem that either the FAA is backing away from the possibility of an AMA exception to these rules, or they are indicating that the AMA "operating rules" will need to be more restrictive then the AMA had hoped. I don't know which it is.

The *really* frustrating thing is that the model aircraft and SUAS rules are being written by people who, from what I've seen, do not know much, if anything about either, and in some cases, literally have never even seen one - other than in pictures...

Bob

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

That is very true the Rumors should be kept down to a minimum. A side from being one of the Owners of Modellbau USA. I am a Federal Agent for the Department of Homeland Security and I fly the Predator B for them as well as other aircraft. The wholeUnmanned Aircraft Program Office(UAPO) at the FAA was created because of DHS UAV operations in the organized air traffic system. I have been directly involved with all the meeting'sthat deal with UAV problem and the AMA is a very small part of there concern but is a subject they are covering. There is nothing set in stone yet and the (NPRM) Notice of proposed rule making is far from being finalized. I can tell you that one thing that is definitely spoken about over and over is the 400ft restriction, but this is already in the FAR's ( Federal Aviation Regulations ) so it is a mute point.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Several people have stated that, but I'm not sure its true. I know the people I have talked with and worked with in the UAPO feel that models should be flown below 400', but I do not believe that this is a regulation at this point. If someone can show me that in the FAR's, I'd appreciate seeing it.

Bob

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Well Big Brother strikes again. Once the rules are published and we know how they will affect us we need to write our elected officials i.e. US Senator and members of Congress and voice our displeasure. From what I understand the inclusion of model airplanes into the NPRM was to satisfy the commercial UAV operators who were not happy we fly model airplanes without government oversight while they were going to be regulated. They are trying to compare apples and oranges. They (commercial UAV operators) want to fly UAVs over your house for surveillance, over your cities for commercial purposes and so forth in the national airspace system. Dumping a model into a field is small compared to dumping a Predator sized UAV into downtown NYC but they want to use the same rules. After all, they are both UAVs in the eyes of the FAA. The modeling community has had a workable system (the AMA and associated safety rules) in place for years that has served everyone well. We dont fly in in the national airspace system, we dont fly over homes, buildings and people and in fact do everything we can to avoid such. Get your pens ready, maybe the idea of smaller government will take hold in Washington. This would be a good place to continue to show them how we feel about the intrusion of government in our lives. Regardless of how you feel about the AMA they are working in our best interest and without them we wont have a model airplane hobby. If you are not a member I suggest you join as the larger number of members will have a greater impact on the politicians. When the time is right I expect guidance from the AMA on the best way to contact your representatives.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Here is the link to the FAA Advisory Circular defining Model Aircraft back in 1981

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...C?OpenDocument

For those who do not know here is the definition of an advisory circular as per FAA definition
Communication or publication issued to provide guidelines on a subject matter, such as how to comply with a regulation or statue

The AMA is not a rule making entity they only control model aircraft operated in AMA sanctioned fields. The AC from the FAA is law
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RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Very well said TP777FO your statement is right on the people involved in the rule maikng have no idea about RC planes. Our team that is on the FAA board constantly has to explain these concepts to them. The AMA is who we need tosupport and with high numbers of members we can make a difference.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

I may be mistaken but I dont think ACs are "law" but guidelines to which the FAA offers suggested ways to operate aircraft. If you notice they state in many that they ask for voluntary compliance and should not be used when they are in disagreement with the FARs which are the "law". Our AMA safety code is our "law" and is requires compliance for our personal and club insurance to be valid. I am not 100% sure but I believe our AMA safety rules have been coordinated the FAA.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

It would also be a good time to join your SIGs, too, like JPO, or IMAA if you are a large scale model person, etc... I think we have about 300 members in JPO currently, but there are a lot more jet modellers out there than 300...

If you fly little foam prop models in your living room, these new rulings probably won't affect you.

Yet... [:@]

JPO District 8 Rep

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Henry, what, if anything now, is the best way to do that? We can talk more at Markham.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

With as little as the FAA knows about RC, some third-level staff assistant has probably included the requirement that we all have Mode C transponders.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

That is very true AC are not "law" but guidelines, but on the other hand I know from personal experience and discussions we have had if a RC violates what they have written in there AC very clear orders that civil penalties will be enforced. The AMA is our law but only if you fly at a AMA field if not the AMA can not preclude you from doing anything they have no enforcement power. On the other hand what you said AMA rules are definitely shared and in a non official manner signed off on. As for transponders this is a hot topic in the last meetings, even though it would be ridiculous for RC to have them it was brought up.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

How will this possibly affect those of us with sufficient private property that operate turbines from?

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Technically, that is not correct. The FAR's carry the weight of law, but the AC does not. That is in fact, why we can fly our models above 400' today without threat of legal action. However, if the rules proposed for SUAS are approved and become FAR's, then its a different story.

Bob

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Re transponders...I was joking but not surprised it was considered or discussed....did they consider TCAS for RC also?

I can't imagine trying to fly nearly any RC aircraft at an altitude (400 feet) that is less than many of the community RC runway lengths.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

That's actually something that lots of folks debate and its batted about in these discussions, but if you read the FAA's interpretation of their authority to regulate the airspace, they state that they have authority to regulate it all...

Bob

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

As president of the JPO, I have been keeping tabs on this pretty closely. I talk to either Rich or Dave every four to six weeks.

As someone mentioned, the recommendations of the SUAS group have been submitted, but the NPRM won't be out for a while yet. The AMA has done a great job of keeping communication channels open with the FAA, but the FAA understandably has kept their cards somewhat hidden pending finalization of the NPRM. Things could change at any time, though, and Dave has promised that the JPO will be contacted and asked to participate in any initiatives required. He has told me that the Jet community is an important part of the AMA and I believe him.

It should come as no surprise that speed and altitude will be issues for all segments of the hobby, but where the FAA intends to set these limits will be a mystery until the NPRM is published, or leaked. I think operations close to busy airports will also be an area of scrutiny. As Rich points out, there may come a time when we need to band together and lobby the FAA.

For now, the primary focus for our community should be on flying safely, following the rules, and avoiding unnecessary controversy. Despite the occasional mis-step, the jet community really does have a pretty good reputation for safety and self enforcement which may help us significantly in the next couple of years.

As always, I welcome thoughts, comments or questions at [email protected]. Your support of the JPO would be appreciated, as the larger our numbers, the higher the credibility of the organization.

Thanks, Keith.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Just like I mentioned AC are technically not law but you can fined by civil penalty very easily. The FAA always has a way out and there way out is the careless and reckless clause in the FAR's this is interpreted differently by all and they do that on purpose its clear as mud. The airspace is governed by the FAA and that includes all air space even over private property. I have personnel experience with this because we are in the process of getting a COA issued for one of Modellbau's UAV's for testing and I was specifically trying to get around this restriction by paying a local property owner in central florida to fly here and the FAA said no even with all the contacts I have up in DC. The Pandora's box that is about to open is the fact that ICAO is starting to gain lots of interest in this topic and it will effect things world wide.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Keith I agree with you totally, there are definitely things that I can not discuss but If i can share or help with anything please feel free to contact me directly. I spend most of my time at work dealing with these issues and have lots of info.

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

Keith,

I just sent in my membership check. I hope everyone takes this opportunity to 'walk the talk' and support any organization that is helping us.

George

RE: FAA Decision Looms on Model Aircraft Regulations
 

That'll be the day. For that to happen, we would need a sudden reversal of human history, human psychology and the history of politics in the United States. "Smaller Government" is a fantasy (lie) that certain groups or parties pay lip service to when they're out of power, then completely do the opposite of when they're in power. Let's keep it real....

This sucks. Models shall not be powered by turbine engines? What problem are they trying to solve with that one.... :eek: