Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

I’ve finally started working on my Avonds F-104, and while I intend it to be powered by electrons, I know there are a quite a few folks on here that have built them so I figured this would be a good place to post and get feedback, etc. Incidently a number of generous folks with experience with this model have been kind enough to already share some thoughts and suggestions, and I’m incorporating many of those in my build as I proceed.

A few comments that continue to come up from those who have had this model are:
1. Don’t fly it without the tip tanks,
2. Use take-off setting for flaps landing,
3. Strengthen the main retract mounts (non-scale gear versions),
4. Always enjoy amazing people that it actually does fly, and fly well,
5. And, those that have sold theirs wish they hadn’t.

So far I’ve made a few small modifications, nothing drastic. These include:

- adding removable wing panels (thanks Stig for the good ideas on this) via blade spars from Philip. The tip tanks will also be removable.
- I want to keep the flap servos in the wing so I had Walt at IFR Machine Works (the RDS folks) make up some pockets and tempered torque rods. The flaps will engage the rods and the wing panel is slid onto the fuselage.
- Added some carbon cloth in the area of the gear doors, nose and mains to stiffen up the door and surrounding fuse skin. I also made up another set of doors from carbon fiber and glass cloth just in case I mess up the opening and want to make a new set. Figured it’s easier to make them before cutting the fuse open.
- Laminated some 1/16” thk G-10 to the retract rails for extra strength.
- Laminated the ply former F-19 with a 1/32” thk G-10 on both sides, and formers F-18 got the same treatment on one side. These are in stab activation and supports.
- Replaced the 4-40 rod for elevator actuation with a carbon fiber rod.

Future Options? – I have both the Details4Scale drag chute system and AB ring system. Not sure if I’ll add them due to the weight, but may retro fit them later after flying the model.

The color scheme I’m aiming for is the RCAF 12701, the first Canadair build CF-104. It has a natural metal fuselage, white wings top, grey wings bottom, and bright red tip tanks and tailplane. I hope that it will lend itself well to visibility, besides I’m Canadian, so it’s patriotic.

Here’s a few pics of the progress so far. Welcome any suggestions, feedback, etc.

Sean

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

And a couple more pics....

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

LOOKING GOOD SEAN.[8D]
Let me know if you get stuck on anything.
Hans

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Hi,

Are these kits still available?

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Sean,

Awesome color scheme complete with a Red Ensign. Now that's a flag!!!!!! I see you're up in PA, good stuff. Get that bad boy in the air and we'll swear you in to the H.C. club like we did with your fellow Pennsylvanian Rich Miller.

Regards,

Jim

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Cool project Sean! Is this one of the Aeroloft kits or did you go straight to the source? It's been quite a few years now but I cut lots of 104 kits for both Aeroloft and Avonds. I don't think I have ever worked with a better designer than Avonds. His stuff is first class, IMHO.

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

As I have said many times, PA builds some of the best kits in the world. Parts all fit, easy to build and they all fly great. I have enjoyed his 104, 15 and 2 - 16s. I highly recommend his kits. I would love to build one of his Fouga's. If you enjoy building his kits are a real treat. The 104 is a fabulous flyer and I would love to have another one! Good job PA!

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Thanks Hans, your feedback has already been very very helpful! I’ll keep in touch as I make progress.


Yes, as of a week or so ago all items were still in stock.


Thanks Jim. I’m actually still officially a Canadian (here on a green card), but would still like to join your club! ;-) I agree on the ensign, I have the same on my sabre.



Chad, I agree. I purchased the kit direct from Philip in 2009. I did however purchase the Robart gear from Aeroloft as it’s been discontinued by Robart. Have needed to modify the rails slightly to accommodate them, but should work just fine.



Couldn’t agree more Tom, and yes the Fouga kit looks amazing! After a couple scratch builds I’ve really been enjoying this build for it’s simplicity and how everything is well thought out, etc. The parts quality and wood is also top notch.

Sean

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

I am renovating my PA F-104 at the moment. I had fitted it with the airfighter.eu afterburner ring, it looks fantastic burning up into a darkened sky, you must fit your a/b lights! I am interested in the plug on wings, is that a modification authorised and parts sold by PA, or your own modification?
Harry

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Harry,

Would love to see some pics of your AB ring installation and results.
Philip doesn't have instructions per say for the removable wings, I'm using Stig's experience as a guide. Philip however wasn't opposed to the option, and did sell me the blade spars and receptacle parts for the option.

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

I do not have any photos of it, but an important point is to mount it as far back as possible, mine is right on the back edge of the outer pipe. The reason is that if you mount it forward even a little bit, the pipe obscures a bit of the ring unless you are absolutely end on. Photos in flight do not do justice to the good a/b rings, as the camera is not fooled like the human eye can be. Photos show a ring of bright dots, but the human eye gets dazzled and fills in the gaps and much of the disc inside the ring. That's a reason to keep the ring right at the very back, if you can't see all the ring then your eye can't fill in the disc.
Thanks for the info re the plug in, will talk to PA about it.
Harry

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Harry, good points about the AB ring. Fortunately as I'm going electric I could in fact make my exhaust ducting out of clear mylar. I haven't looked at it too closely yet, but may need to make a new tailcone, unless I put my AB ring on the outside of the tailcone hidden right at the back of the fuselage.

The ideal exhaust dia for my fan is 3.375" - 3.50".
The fuselage exit dia is 5.50"
The tailcone tapers down to a 3.625" dia exit.
My AB ring is 4.375" dia ID, and 5.25" dia OD.

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Here are some pics of the AB install in my Mirage. The ring is installed about 2-3 inches forward of the end of the exhaust duct basically because it was the easiest place to do the install. Indeed the duct blocks the ring from view at side angles as Harry has described. The bigger the ring, the further forward you can mount it without it being obscured. In my case, I used a ring I already had though clearly there is lots of room for one that is larger.

Regardless of the less than perfect install, it looks good to the human eye.

Regards,

Jim

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

who woulda thunk, another Canada scheme:D

am following along as well Sean, always enjoy your scale builds.

also, you may find this hard to believe, but also rooting for the Canucks:)

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Thanks Todd. They took a bit of a beating last night. [:o]
Not ALL my schemes are CDN....just the best ones are. :D

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Took a quick clip of the gear doors and retracts. Still have some more wires to plumb neatly, as well as running some servo wire. I figured it would be a lot easier doing this before the inlets and inlet ducting is installed. This isn't scale for the F-104, in fact the gear isn't totally scale either. Nonetheless, I still wanted dual main doors. My initial plan was to run the rear doors on air cylinders as well with the same timing as on the nose doors (doors open with gear down) but no matter what cylinder lengths I tried, the geometry and space just wouldn't allow for it. So I resorted to a simple method with a rubber band pulling the door against the leg and closing it with the strut. I think it's not to noticable.
I'm using a combination of UP-2 and UP-4 valves for the gear and doors as the nose doors stay open and the main doors close with the gear down. The 4 quick disconnects are so that nose can be removed.
I haven't played with the speeds yet, just installed the UP valves with the factory settings to get it all working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_tK9DpD9so

Also, here's a couple pics with the wings on. Hope to get the tail and tip tanks on this week and start hooking up some control surfaces. However, the weather looks promising so I may skip working on this in favor of a little flying. [8D]

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Sean, looking your pictures reminded me of something. seeing the bulkheads for LG and wings...
On a heavy landing (neg G) the main wing former is prone to crack, just inside the plane.. there is a hole to lighten the bulkhead.
It is prone to cracking at the top and bottom of that , reinforcing might be a good idea, especially when you will place your spar receptacles on that very spot .
Hans

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Hans good feedback. In the picture below do you mean the 2 smaller holes right parallel to the rectangular retract rail holes?
Btw, great picture of your model, that's the same scheme as I'm aiming to do. Looks great!

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Looks really nice. I could maybe add these tips to your already good list...

-Choose a lightweight but powerful turbine, like the new Wren 100 or Jetcat 100
-Keep her light with as little as possible fuel onboard
-Try to keep the nose light, this model flies like a freight train if nose-heavy because of fuel etc.
-You might want to protect the undersides of the tip tanks with something-they hang low and scrape easily
-In turns remember that when You see the upper tiptank the model is banked a lot already
-Elevator-all You can get
-The 104 glides better then most think...:)
Have fun, I lost mine due to an engine failure in a bad moment...
TP.

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

TP,
Sorry to hear you lost yours. [:o] Your build pics on here were inspiring.
Thanks for the tips. I'm going Electric power with mine so the weight I take off with I'll have through the entire flight. I will be concious of weight and mindful of it.
Good suggestion on the tip tanks, I'll look to add something along the spine. I fly off grass 99% of the time so hopefully that will be more gentle on the tanks.

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Aah yes, those those two smaller holes used to be the same size as the others, thats already improved. much stronger this way ...

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

That's good news. I may look to plug them from the back side it not too much trouble. Keep the suggestions rolling! :D

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Mine weighed 19.5 with a Ram 750 plus it was an Aeroloft kit which is quite a bit heavier than the PA kit. My nose section weighed more than the entire fuselage of INAV's entire PA fuselage.....however it flew absolutely great! A PA kit would fly on the little Wren just fine. If I did it again I would use the Jet Central Rabbit and still have way more power than needed. I agree with Strobe777...it does glide way better than you would expect. Full flap landings require power until the flare but a 1/2 flap landing is a piece of cake, plus it allows for a long nose high aerobrake after touchdown. I want one again!

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

Sean stop teasing us, put the wings on the model.

RE: Avonds F-104 Build - CF-104 12701
 

:D