'Flapless' plane
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11431662

So do they mean NO moving control surfaces on the wing? How clever. And done first by the British of course ;) Wonder when we will see this in our hobby although appears its been done on a largish RC jet anyway.

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

A few years ago at the JMA AGM, a chap from BAE systems gave us a talk on the UAV work they had been doing and this project was mentioned. From what I can remember, the plane uses a Jetcat P120(or it could be a P160) for thrust and there is a bleed off the compressor(I think) for the controls.

Geoff.

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

They did'nt show the landing must have been hairy :D

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJs8e...e_gdata_player

Uses an AMT Titan for thrust and Wren gas producer to drive compressor for air-blown surfaces.

Don't ask me how I know :D

Rob.

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

I think the space shuttle uses the same system for space or the harrier jump jet.

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

Errr - that's because control surfaces obviously aren't going to work in space;) It still uses normal control surfaces back in the earth's atmosphere and the harrier uses normal control surfaces also (although they only become effective once airflow is established over them).

I guess the closest system to this would be the NOTAR tail rotorless system on helicopters.

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

Harrier use thrust control only when hovering, and it's not control suface but localised "thrust tubes" that allow control, the same way as notar copter if you want to. Or the same way as our RC models vector system

The news here is that air thrust is used instead of "classical" control surfaces with the same effects on the plane. That's more than just a "thrust tube" and not a vectorial control system and I don't fully understand how it work to have fully control. [:@]

That's interresting...

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

Sooo the shuttle could use the same system for regular flight control as in space instead for elavon right? (Hypothetically Speaking)

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

Maybe - but given all it's thrust would be very helpful on the way up to break clear of the atmosphere and on the way down, there is no thrust!

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

I remember reading about the Columbia Disaster after one of the wing was destroyed the (main computers fighting to maintain its orientation eventually using maximum thrust from its Reaction Control System jets) trying to keep it level.

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

Many years ago a F-104 had a reaction control system for very high altitude flying. (not sure, but think that Chuck Yeager was almost killed on it). It worked very well and later was used in everything, from the X-15, space shuttle and now hypersonic drones..

The interesting thing on this one is that this is being used for low speed control, for the first time as far as I know.


Enrique

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

If you look closely at this, you will see that it is not a reaction control system. It is a "circulation control" system where the blown air does not push the aircraft one way or the other - as in a reaction control system - but rather uses high pressure air to modify the airflow on the (non-moving) control surfaces and thus increase their lift in one direction or the other to affect control. This is similar to the "blown flaps" that were used on some STOL concept aircraft previously developed...

The major benefit is the elimination of the weight and complexity necessary for heavy hinged surfaces (and actuators) which are replaced by simple slots in the surfaces and some airflow control valves.

Bob

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

Their are applying the Coanda Effect on the trailing edge in order to create directional control. Thats evidenced by the fact that in the trailing edge image shown you see a round center section and the gap where the air is expelled at higher velocity top or bottom.
I would then guess that they have air circuits and valves to proportion the air to a section of the wing to effectively make ailreons and elevators from varying the air flow. Top and bottom 2 ailerons and 2 elevators for example means 4 circuits and manifolds per wing and you have control.

Very simple and elegant solution there. With computers to stabilize it and and further development this makes a lot of sense, well done!

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

What happens with an engine out (Flame out)????????????????

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

Yeah really! LOL maybe a back up APU or they might have to have moving surfaces to be certified, who knows this is new territory I guess.

RE: 'Flapless' plane
 

The test flights use conventional control for the majority of the flight with the blown system only being switched in mid flight. Remember this is for conventional control, nothing to do with (v)stol or reaction control. Blown surfaces have been used in the past to "assist" conventional control surfaces but not for complete primary control.

Rob.