CARF Flash pricing
 

Hi Guys,

Can anyone give me a good explanation as to why the ultra flash is $300 more for Australian customers than anywhere else in the world where the pricing is $2290?

Don't get me wrong, I like their products....I have a classic flash, an ultra, the Mig 29, not to mention their corsair and P51, and Mig 15, I just don't like being screwed. I have been tempted to order another ultra flash but when I saw the price increase and that the Australian price so much higher than the rest of the world, I decided not to go through with it.....did not need it that badly. I know I am not the only one in my neck of the woods that was put off by the above observations. Even if that only amounts to 2 lost sales, they would have to sell quite a few more over and above what their normal sales would be, to make up those losses.......absolute madness in the current economic climate I would have thought, unless the model jet production business is far more lucrative than I imagined! (and I doubt that is really the case)

My comments are not aimed at my local dealer, Intairco, as Peter is great to deal with, but he can't seem to get a reasonable answer out of CARF either. That pricing policy seems to put him in a tough predicament too. Common CARF guys, we folk down here in Oz were not born yesterday.........

Sincerely, if anyone can enlighten me I would be most grateful.

Regards,

Craig.


Oh, and if anyone at CARF is listening.....please bring the classic flash back in to production...it is a great model and there are a lot of guys over here that prefer the look of it rather than the ultra.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Tell me about it got a quote of 1990 for the Ultra at Xmas time one they had ready to go not now so that's three lost sales. Makes the Mig 15 look good more bang for your buck though it's gone up as well.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Yeah, it's not like they can use the exchange rate as an excuse either....going by that it should be 5% cheaper than in the US, not $300 more! So CARF, there's about 10 grand that you have missed out on that we are hanging on to until we see some fairness here.

Hopefully common sense will prevail.

Craig.

edit: I should proof read before pressing ok!

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

CARF's US pricing has gone up huge $ as well. For example, UF blue Angels scheme went from $1890 to $2290 ( 21% increase) Spitfire went from $1090 to $1690 (55% increase). I own 3 CARF planes now and had been considering these kits as well... absolutely will not buy them at those prices.
All other CARF kits seem to have had similar increases.

The only reason I can fathom for these types of increases is that their demand must have far exceeded the supply so, they have driven prices way up to kill demand and meet supply which if the case, is a sound business strategy. In my case it's worked as I won't be purchasing anymore from them.

Mike

<br type="_moz" />

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Or, it could be the Cypriot logic. If sales fall, then put up the price, so you make the same profit.
Don't ask why, but it's what happens here.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

My disappointment with CARF was with the colors of the UFlash. Not enough selection, and it costs to change colors, and my rep wanted $100 for each color change. Since then i have found its $100 to change colors for the scheme. I waited 10 months hoping to see a color upgrade, or some other option. Finally capitulated. You will probably capitulate, but at least dont go down without a statement of protest. For the best for all of us.
John

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

The argument that I had heard relating to the higher price in Australia related to the exchange rate, back when our dollar was low in relation to the USD. I has not been that way for a long time now. Funny how a website can be updated easily and regularly except for the pricing section........

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Too true, I would love to buy a couple of CARF models but the price difference whilst not monumentally different is enough to put me off, I fail to see why we in Oz pay more for a given product that is priced lower in other countries, it is about time that manufacturers (and I don't only mean models) came to their collective senses and did the right thing by consumers all over the world.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Possibly it has to do with volume. Cheaper if they can fill a whole container with stuff. Just a thought.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

In our little local circle of Jet Pilots we all say that you can not beat the value of the Flash, dollar for dollar it is the best thing going! As their prices increase they soon will be in BVM range and then things change. I am not going to pay compARF BVM prices when I can pay BVM BVM prices....

Just like everything else, they become popular and they are going to price themselves right out of the sweet spot that made them popular in the first place. As an example, I am looking to get a 160 sized ship for Jake and I have been looking at Hawks...I can get a SM Hawk for about the same price as a UF....

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

I find the Carf sales policy irritating, having to contact a rep or seller to get a cost makes me somehow suspicious. I recently contacted my rep for a price on a MIG 15 but was taken aback with the cost including retracts so have now set my sights lower,I think, and would like to know the price of a Flash but am embarrased to ask in case he thinks I am just a time waster which is not the case as I want a new plane. I wish they would just be transparent and publish their prices for all to see.
<br type="_moz" />

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

The prices can be found on the web page, let me look for it.

http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...ant&proId=2414

plus
http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...ory&proId=2416

plus
http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...ory&proId=1699

and
http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...variantId=2414

Plus pick your engine :) Staying out of that one for sure.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

The prices are on the CARF site, you can see them any time you log into the site, ok you have to add shipping, but this varies from model to model as the box size affects how its shipped, some carriers don't take boxes over a certain size. Some accessories have to ship separately as they are too heavy/would damage the aeroplane if shipped with.
The CARF process is unique, but once you are registered with the site you have have very little contact with your REP. I do plenty of quotes that do not lead to sales, but standard kit package type quotes take very little time for the REP to complete, so there is no reason to be embarrassed and that is the REPs job after all!
Having stock in hobby shops means higher costs and as we see if products are sold by shops, the really desperate ones sell product near cost, this weekend the new Habu 2 was released and some dealers felt the need to sell at a couple of percent over cost, just to do turnover....foolish

Prices vary, as the US price does not inc VAT or duties we have with product coming into Europe. Also we have higher shipping costs as shipping companies have higher costs, petrol in the UK is close to $8 a gallon. I guess Aus is expensive to ship to also, it cannot be a huge market for CARF, so kits are shipped in lower numbers, so cost more...
Talk with Peter Agnew and ask the question, he will have an idea.

Dw

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Been a long time CARF model flyer. My latest, the UL is my sixth model from them. <div>Seems to me that CARF is loosing a lot of potential sales due to price increases, to a point of pricing themselves out of the market. I'm in the same boat. I've been contemplating my next project, and the price for that project ex CARF is leading me to another manufacturer. I hope CARF see this thread, amongst other such price related comments in other threads on RCU. <div>And I agree completely with the comment above re BVM prices for CARF models. Why would I want to, when I can get BVM quality at a BVM price. </div><div>CARF models are good, but not quite that good for the price they are starting to demand.
<div>
</div></div></div>

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Thanks guys, it looks like I have been doing it wrong as usual. I have not been logging in on the site and this diplays the goods less prices and stock levels which in turn has led to the confusion on my part. All clear now Cheers.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Guys, perfectly worthwhile discussion with merit no doubt but please remember to take into account that the Australian Government applies a Good & Services Tax on 99.9% of what we buy here in Australia.

This tax rate is 10% and is included in the prices published on the CARF website. From what I understand most states in the US don't have a sales tax regime like here, the UK and Europe so it is probably worthwhile taking this into account in order to establish the correct relativity between pricing in one be market and another.

We may not like it (Europe pay 19.5%VAT) but it is not the kit manufactures that are responsible for it.

If the CARF kits are drop shipped direct to customers this GST is removed from the invoice as they are not required to collect tax on behalf of the government. In this case the customer is responsible for the tax however the Tax Office is very generous when it comes to personal imports, I am yet to hear of anyone being asked for GST having received a drop ship kit from CARF.

Whether or not CARF could instigate a web pricing system that changes each day would for them to answer however from our own web experience it would be impossible, from a time perspective, to do manually..... it would need some sort of automated program to do it.

And of course when our dollar went down to USD$0.96 a few weeks ago an Ultra Flash was actually cheaper here (without GST of course)

Cheers

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

I'm sorry, but some of you guys should start a model business...it would interest me to see your pricing once the real situation hits. This hobby cannot deal with the low prices expected from the tiny numbers sold and huge business costs involved with such small sales numbers.
CARF held their prices too low, too long and that is the problem, we get used to false value. I think CARF models represent excellent value, if you don't buy something else, its a free world, but in the UK we are in a mess, we need to increase prices not degrease them, the country will be in a deeper mess than it already is if people don't realise that. Most of my customers are very switched on about costs and accept the value of models that allow them to enjoy the hobby. How many people have had ruined weekends due to poor quality "cheap" equipment failure...
I meet people who moan about the cost of a model, but have a Lambo, Ferrari or such in the garage as a "play thing" what makes that worth 5x as much as a normal car and they accept that cost??

In the UK we can almost have two Ultra Flash's to one Super Bandit, so?

Dw

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Dave, that may be true but, unfortunately massive price increases of 20%to 60% will result in a massive sales drop putting the company in no better position. I will not buy something today that I could have had for 50% less yesterday.

Over here, the gap between a Bandit and Flash is much closer.

Mike
<br type="_moz" />

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

+1

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Mike, I wonder how you are ordering a Bandit if the price is so close to an Ultra Flash. Here in the states the Ultra Flash is almost $1500 lower in price over the Bandit ARF MKII.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

I realize that John but, the Bandit is a nicer product with much better support for the extra $1500 and I was refering to Dave's comments that you can buy 2 Flashes for the price of a Bandit in the UK, you can't do that here.

I like the CARF product, I just think the huge price increase is unjustified , I think it will cost them huge sales however; if they continue to sell like hotcakes, I'm not too big to admit I'm wrong. It's their company, all I can do is choose not to buy it at that price.

Mike
<br type="_moz" />

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

So how much is a go fly price here in the US?? Say compared to a bandit.. I can only see the kit price of 2290USD on there website. I cant seem to find prices on their gear, tanks etc...what does that 2290 include??

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Eric, the 2290 USD gets you the airframe only. But it is complete ready for systems to be installed. You do not have to build it like the BVM stuff.

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

The Bandit ARF go fly is $4695.

Flash is $2290 airframe
$ 950 LG (depends on what you go with)
$150 wing tank
$ 3390 total

so, about at $1300 difference compared to ARF Bandit

Mike

RE: CARF Flash pricing
 

Wow [X(] I just bought the Blue Angel U/F for 1800+ with pipe and hardware, why the big jump. supply and demand ?