New to Jets, got an ULTRALIGHTNING
 

Hey Guys, I'm new to jets and got a CARF Ultra lightning, have been flying imac and giant gassers for several years now and I made this step up on the hobby.

http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...riant&proId=12

As I said, I got the UL, I'll be running a P180 RX wish I have on my hands now, will run:

CARF LG
PWR Box Comp SRS
JR8711 all around
Jet tronics Brake, retract and door sequence valves
GBR medium UAT

well the intention of this thread, is to ask for your opinion on what I got, what should I get what I might be missing and need to get to make this beauty fly...
You info will be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

My view is, you should start jets with something cheaper & easier to manage. Get a cheap Boomerang & fly it till you get used to landing jets.
I shudder at all them $$$ being lost.

+1

I was just about to post that.

Congratulations and welcome to the community!

The UL is an awesome performing jet. Equipped as you have it, performance should be great. Therein lies the potential hiccup. With a P-180 the UL is capable of speeds far beyond anything you are accustomed too! Even though the UL can and will slow down quite well for landing it will require technique to accomplish it, that again you are not familiar with.

I too would recommend that you acquire a Boomerang type aircraft to get your feet wet before diving into the deep end of the UL.

Best of luck,

David S

Skymaster - you should be fine. I was flying similar type aircraft (comp arf 3 meter 260, imac / 3D) when I got in to jets. I started out with a classic Flash and the Ultra Lightning is easier to fly than that. I got on fine with the Flash until I sold it when I moved abroad. YOu shouldn't need to waste your money on a boomerang, just make sure you find someone to help who knows what they're doing and get the waiver done.

Have fun!

Seems like you have all what you need to get started. don't forget your CO2 fire extinguisher. Just have an experience turbine holder stand next to you for you Maiden flight.

Good Luck

I'm on board with the guys saying just fly the airplane. Get somebody with experience to help you out and go have fun. Boomerangs are today's "turbine trainer", and they are fine, but truthfully, the way they fly, and with the spool time of today's turbines, I think they are more of a convenient any field anytime jet than they are a trainer. They fly to easily. When I started flying turbines back in 2000, the "Turbine trainers" of the day were harder to fly than something like an Ultra Lightning, and truthfully, with the cost of things the way they were back then, they weren't that much less expensive either. In some cases they were much more expensive in fact. And for that money back then, we got to buy Kits, with 18lb thrust turbines that took 6 seconds to spool from idle to full throttle AND we got to start them by hauling big heavy scuba tanks around!
Your Ultra Lightning will be a big *****cat, just have somebody with experience there to talk you through that first couple flights and help you learn the throttle curve and idiosyncracies of a big jet.

I got my waiver on an ultra lightning, its as good as a trainer jet. FULL FLAPS, down - 18 elevator (almost neutral), half power lands like a trainer.

Also the instructions will give you a fairly heavy nose c.g. so it will track very easily, but you'll probably have about + 15 elevator to fly neutral.

Just got started in jets myself (with a CARF Hawk/Cheetah) and assuming you have good flying skills and are a quick learner with a good instructor you will be fine. It is quite an investment isn't it?!
If you look thru the forum there is so much to learn! I actually learned a lot from LGM Graphix posts so thank you sir! Go to a jet meet or local jet field (here's hoping you have one!). And take notes. It really is fun to learn this new aspect of the hobby. But jets are not forgiving and so the concern.
I was mostly surprised by the whole turbine lag thing, on my maiden if I had a nickel for every time my mentor called "lead with power" or "add power, add more power now!" well, I could buy a cuppa. But the Hawk is a bit draggy compared to a Flash. Anyway, you will learn to gauge your thrust output by stick position not sound, you will learn not to pull throttle all the way to idle the whole flight until landing assured and you will certainly realize why when you do your go around dirty from idle for your waiver. But 12 flights in two days later and I wouldn't change a thing. Bigger flies better and you bought a sturdy "sport jet" from a solid manufacturer so it should fly like a dream. Seriously bro, Where do you go from here? You are starting at the top. Um, what else, go somewhere (youtube) and watch videos of guys landing your jet. They are slippery things and like to fly fast, also they are draggy and slow configured, so having a mental picture of the velocity and attitude on landing will be key to success.
Might as well get your support equipment now. Aircraft stands, figure out how to transport it before it weighs 40 pounds, fuel jugs, CO2 or Halon fire bottle, walk around fuel tank if you plan to fly at meets. I am not sure if you said you have the Jetcat yet or not. But while Jetcats are fine engines I will tell you why I am glad I got a (used) Cheetah, it burns diesel mixed with two stroke oil so I can "fill up" just about anywhere for a reasonable price to boot. Just some ideas from another exited newby.

Welcome and good luck with the journey

Yep, just enjoy. Trainer jet is a stoopid name in my mind and I say if you need a trainer, your not ready for a turbine model yet. I get asked about flying EDF foamies first and good introduction models and these question answer more about the pilot and guide my recommendation on what they need. If you fly sequence you use the throttle, that is the only thing you need to be able to control well to be upto a turbine aeroplane. Helicopter pilots make some of the best model pilots and turbine drivers, they use all four stick axis without needing to think about it.
You have good equipment, so it will work, like some said get someone with experience to look over the install, fuel flow is way above what you are used to, so keep that in mind to avoid leaks.
The UL has no bad habbits and is actually easier than the smaller UF model (on board weights almost the same! Servos and turbine-so lower loadings)

Dw

Funny it seems counter intuitive but we had problems back in the day with guys coming from DF.


When I started turbines (maybe 1997?), virtually everyone had previously flown ducted fan (internal combustion DF at that). You spent much of the DF flight profile at full power and guys had not learned to pull the throttle back. We had a LOT of crashes back then, from guys taking off and never pulling the throttle back. Planes kept speeding up until it got away from them, usually in roll, then disorientation as the thing was 1/2 a mile away by then. And at least where I was flying, everyone was learning at the same time so we did not have many turbine "experts". Back then, a BVM Bandit with a P-80 was a turbine trainer. Perfectly capable (and AMA legal) to fly 250+ MPH in your first few flights if you let it go.

There was no AMA waiver flight test yet so you could fly your first turbine flight completely AMA legal with waiver (I know that's how I did it)

I guess EDF jets have come a long way. I have a year old Electra (121 flights now) and it is not flown full throttle for more than a few seconds at a time. I can do a high speed pass, pull to idle, zoom climb into the heavens, and just glide around for at least a minute. So my "problem" on the first flight was the opposite. I wasn't applying enough thrust.
Funny thing about the Electra, it is an awesome machine, you can fly your jets, then grab the Electra, and it is every bit as much fun to fly. But if you take an Electra to a jet field/meet, as cool as it is, it is kind of like taking a mountain bike to a motocross track ;)

A few additional jet opp items I'm not sure you have.
* Overflow tank
* Fire Ext
* Cordless Blower (optional to help with cool down)
* Checklist (optional, but keeps you honest & defends against distractions)
Good luck!

Guys:

Skymaster68 doesn't need to start with a trainer..... I know him very well and I could say that he flies better than a lot of guys in here.

He is a 777 captain, dealer of Composite-Arf in Chile and some other countries and has been flying for over 10 years IMAC and 3D. With his skills, there's no doubt in my mind that he will have no problem with the Ultra Lightning. Besides that, in our club there are several jet flying members that are willing to help. Everybody that have started flying jets in our club can't fly alone and there is a strict safety protocol that needs to be followed. We'll make his life tough enough.......

10 years rc, & a 777 Capt, I'd say in his case, he probably has a $100,000+ aviation education & is more than capable of choosing his first turbine model. Although I would buy a boomerang or something to get familiar with Jet opps, & take the nervous edge off. Either way, Have fun, Good luck!:)

Full-scale aviation experience really doesn't give you any help towards flying R/C models.

That said, the first turbine airplane I ever flew was a BVM Bandit. The success or failure of a person is 100% in their own capability + how they approach the flying. I found the Bandit to be a piece of cake to fly. If the original poster can fly, then they can fly. The Ultra Lightning flies beautifully, and there are certainly worse choices for a first turbine.

I could not disagree with this statement more. The fundamentals of instruction repeatedly states "humans tend to learn more from actual experience" it adds perception to reality. The education you receive attending a flight college combined with the countless times as a prefessional pilot that you've done weight & balance calculations & watched your stall speed or rotation speed change, watched your pitch change while adding flaps, etc, etc.. it all adds up & is definitely a positive transfer of information towards rc. You can absolutely be successful without it, but it helps immensely. By the way, my 1st turbine was a Bandit also, & it was an easy transition.

Wow, first guy I've ever seen with a check list other than myself.

He'll be fine with that combo. Turbine lag, even as little as it is today, will still be his biggest detrement, so don't do the first few flights alone. And make sure the person you do pick, you KNOW, knows how to fly. Its no garauntee, but it will be more of a safety net.

The rule in our club for jets states that no pilot can fly without a caller than can actually fly and land a jet safely. We all take turns to act as callers and in many cases and specially in the case of new pilots, the caller ends landing the planes in case the pilot doesn't fill comfortable on doing it himself.

Besides this, the jet has to go through a very thorough inspection process before it flies for the first time. This is to make sure that all systems are operating as they are intended to do.

Other rules state that the use of 2.4 radios is mandatory, that Powerbox o Smart-Fly systems must be used for redundancy, etc.

For sure at the time of his first flight, at least 4 or 5 more pilots are going to be present and that can help in case of emergency.

With all these measures, we've never had an accident related with new pilots (and with pilots with far less skills than Skymaster68..... my case included).

He will be OK. His only worry will be that after his first jet solo flight, the tradition states that he is pushed in ¡to a nearby lake and that he needs to pay a dinner for his jet comrades :D



P.S.: He has already flown jets in our club... not his, but from some other pilots.

Great selection. You will love this jet. It's truly a great design and one of the best ones out there imo. Congrats and welcome to the fold!

There is a thread on RCU (good luck finding it) wiht some really good set-up tips on the U-L. Geoff White posted his set-up in detail esp WRT to elevator to flap settings for all thre flap positions. I own both an U-L and a Boomerang Elan and I would say the U-L is in many ways an easier jet to fly as it is so neutral that it does not have any bad habits. It might land a bit faster but with those big flaps set and your elevator mixing right, the U-L settles in to a nice landing pattern and feels very solid on the sticks.

Seek some help from experienced jet pilots for your first flights.

Also, since the U-L has the turbine completely enclosed in a bypass, I would highly recommend setting up the 180 on a test stand and become familiar with its set-up, starting and operation before you install and run it in the jet.

Attached is a picture of my U-L next to my Elan (Red/white/blue).

PaulD

Eric... I mean this in the best possible way: You are not normal hahahah
Seriously, I've never seen anyone fly jets from their first flight like you did. Your maiden looked like your 100th flight. :) :)

To the OP. Eric is a great example of what an accomplished IMAC/3D pilot can do. He is a very capable big gasser and heli pilot. Did a bunch of flights on the Electra, and when it was time to fly jets, he flew his Hawk as if he has been flying it forever.

I'm not a big fan of the Trainers either. I think they help you learn to operate a turbine, but not to fly one.

I think your choice is a good one. You will be fine

Just like Eric said, be ahead of the throttle, that is the big difference. Plus, flaps and gear if you are not used to that. And don't do it alone. You are in Miami, so you will have no problem hooking up with other jet pilots to help you through the process (plus the waiver thingy)

It is fun, enjoy it

Good luck and welcome.

Wow. I've had no problems (knock on balsa) with my standard dual batteries, Fromeco Wolverine switch, and an Orbit Powerjack.