CO2 Extinguisher. Keep it nearby during startup
 

I see quite a few pilots who don't. Even if your engine has started the last 50 times no problem...no harm in keeping one by your side, with the safety off in case you need it in a hurry. This guy thought about it far too late to save the fuselage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9M7KV37d0Y

I bet he learn his lesson. The sad part is he probably would have tried to take off if it didn't caught fire. I'm sure he's seen this video lol.

My opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAVMJBLy-UU

When I see guys roll their plane up to the flightline with no extinguisher all closed up and they initiate the start I'm thinking it's only a matter of time before they damage or completely lose the aircraft due to being too lazy. I don't get it.

I can vouch for that too...... I had mine right at hand but turned out to be empty :-( . Here`s the result.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2114704

It's not only a thing of having a fire extinguisher on your side.......

In our club we always make sure that every time we start a jet, the cabin and turbine latches are open and that our data terminals are connected. Can't understand why people will start a turbine and go fly without testing it on the ground and check that all parameters are OK.

Once again.... we will never start a jet without opening all the possible latched in order to have a good view of what's going on. How long does it take you to close that latches and disconnect the data terminal after ? No time...... but it can sure make a difference and save your plane.

^^^couldn't agree more^^^

It's amazing and disappointing that they don't notice the fire extinguisher under the pit table.

Thats one reason for developing a pit extinguisher which can easily be carried and will extinguish kero and fuel fires without damaging electrical or mechanical components.....

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2114841

marcs

I recall having heard it were empty.......

Some say the fire extinguisher was empty...but I beg differ due to the fact the extinguisher wasn't laying on it's side next to the flames.

At Kentucky Jets this year I was helping a flying buddy on the start up line. While we were starting up (had his extinguisher right there with us), another jet had a hot start. We didn't realize what happened since we were focused on getting his jet started. The guy did not have an extinguisher so he ran over and grabbed my friends extinguisher and put his engine fire out. Now don't get me wrong, I would have run over there myself and handed him the extinguisher if I'd had seen what was going on cause no one wants to see another guys jet burn up. Just an example that things happen very quickly when there is an emergency. Sometimes we get complacent. I was also on the flight line last year at Florida Jets during the crash which is another example of how quickly things can go wrong. As a CD it's next to impossible to monitor everyone coming onto the flight line for safety equipment, especially at a big event. We have to take personal responsibility.

Isn't keeping a healthy fire extinguisher at the ready during the startup sequence on a turbine standard operating procedure/protocol anyway?

Interesting, especially when you can see a fire extinguisher right under the table a few feet away from the plane, Instead of using the extinguisher, someone brings a blanket to try and put it out. A blanket of AFFF would have worked better on that class Alfa/Bravo fire.

From the A.M.A. Turbine Documents:

Flight Line Requirements
16.
A “B/C”-rated or equivalent fire extinguisher shall be present for all engine starts. Water based fire

fighting equipment shall be present on the field.

Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

This is one of those things that you learn over time unfortunately. Unless you happen to have friends with experience on the topic and can tell you what to look for or help move into action. Otherwise vidoes like this are helpful(hopefully this guys was able to save some of his plane). In this case, the large flame doesn't really faze him and I don't think he realized what was going on. With CO2 you can hit it when in doubt and err on the side of safety whenever you see smoke that is out of the ordinary(harder with diesel) or flame that is out of the ordinary. I've had some experience with hot/wet starts and seen a few at events that were handled well. One thing I have never seen and never hope to see is a collapsed pipe. Not sure what that's like.

It seems to me that the AMA set up the turbine rules and the requirements to get the Wavier because they want the jet flyers to take it seriously. Apparently, many do not. It could be argued that this cavalier attitude towards the established rules is as bad as some of the irresponsible behavior shown by some of the Drone pilots that have gotten so much press lately.

Keep this in mind: Failure to follow the Turbine Wavier guidelines will VOID any coverage by the AMA insurance plan. You will be putting the personal assets of the pilot and likely everyone else there when it happens in jeopardy. I worked for several major insurance carriers and they follow the letter of the contract when claims are involved. Failure to follow fire protection rules will result in a denied claim, period.

Wow - if what you say is true then that is a really rubbish insurance policy that you have in the US.

Generally any incident will fall into one of four categories:

1. You are doing everything right and something happens out of the blue beyond you control

2. You are negligent in some respect and the incident is a result of this negligence.

3. You are recklessly negligent to the point where the incident is a more or less inevitable result of your negligence.

4. The incident is the direct result of a deliberate act by you.

In case 1 there is no liability.

Insurance should cover case 2

Insurance might not cover case 3 - but the threshold to distinguish 3 from 2 is pretty extreme - it takes more than failure to observe one safety guideline on a single occasion. Generally your negligence needs to breach the threshold of legality. Organisations like the AMA can't write laws so failure to follow all the safety guidelines won't take you into that territory. If you followed all the guidelines to the letter then almost all incidents would be type 1 and insurance wouldn't be necessary.

When you say "I worked for several major insurance carriers and they follow the letter of the contract when claims are involved." I'm guessing that you are NOT talking about public liability insurance. In public liability insurance cases the insurance company generally tries to avoid paying by playing down the negligence of the insured and changing the incident to type 1.

For the most part I agree with you except when you say that if you did nothing wrong and something happened out of the blue... In fact, anytime we operate one of our models we create the risk. As such we are responsible for the consequences. I know a little about our legal climate and nothing about your country's but here the lawyers work on a commission so lawsuits are rampant and often frivolous. If someone is injured, they will sue. If you didn't follow the rules of the insuring group they go after your assets because the insurer denies coverage because of non-compliance.

I've seen many instances of non-compliance with the AMA regulations and it worries me because of the possible consequences. I don't want to lose my flying privileges because somebody thinks the rules don't apply to them.

Yeah, when there is an accident and your insurance company sends out an investigator/adjuster, what have you, their primary purpose for doing so is to try and find any way possible to minimize and even eliminate entirely what they have to pay out.

What are you basing this on? Do you know of any cases whatsoever of the AMA's insurance carrier denying a claim because of a safety code violation?

At my local hobby shop, the owner/operator had one of his consumers, who was a spectator at an event, lose a portion of his leg when a control line plane broke loose. From what he said, it took years to settle with AMA and it was a huge accomplishment when, in the end, he got compensated for the medical bills incurred.

Specifically, no. But I know the business and they don't care if the liable party is a good ole boy or a real nice guy. If he didn't follow the rules, no payment will be made. I hope it doesn't get tested because bad publicity is the last thing our hobby needs.

SushiHunter,

You're talking about the airline pilot hit by the control-line speed plane in Northern California? I lived out there when that happened and casually knew the guy. It all started when the prop threw a blade.

Hope this helps someone.When I first got into turbines, Had a bandit hot start just a little, and unknown to Me, the excess heat weakened the rear of the bypass . Luckily though, hatches off, I decided to turn the tail safely away and throttle up once. BOOM! the pipe collapsed. Sounded like an explosion. I immediately shut down, grabbed My halon and put out the small fire that was just starting. Minimal damage thankfully. New custom stainless tail on bypass, and new tailpipe from Tam, and lesson learned. After any hot start, no matter how small, Inspect Your bypass and pipe for damage. If I would have taxied out and throttled up for takeoff . I think You all can imagine what would have happened.:)

Could be. I do not know any details about the guy himself such as if he's an airline pilot. Only that the guy I know knew the guy first hand and knows how hard it was for him to collect for his medical expenses. Probably is the same guy cause how often does this type of thing occur?