FAA's Enforcable 400 Feet = Death to Jets?
 

I fly turbines and a CARF 3.2M Extra. For normal loops, humpty bumps, inverted flat spins, spins, etc. it is hard to keep the aircraft safe under 400 feet. Now that the FAA has their hands in our Hobby, is this the death of jets and IMAC planes? I don't want turned in from a local club member, or have the police trying to enforce this rule and get caught. Our field is on public property, and the police are always sitting around in their cars. With out telemetry, it has always been argued that 400 can't be defined by any one person. Everyone's 400 estimate of altitude is different.

http://www.faa.gov/uas/model_aircraft/

Model aircraft operations are for hobby or recreational purposes only.
The FAA has partnered with several industry associations to promote Know Before You Fly, a campaign to educate the public about using unmanned aircraft safely and responsibly. Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines, which include:

• Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles
• Keep the aircraft within visual line of sight at all times
• Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations
• Don't fly within 5 miles of an airport unless you contact the airport and control tower before flying
• Don't fly near people or stadiums
• Don't fly an aircraft that weighs more than 55 lbs
• Don't be careless or reckless with your unmanned aircraft – you could be fined for endangering people or other aircraft

I think if you do the registration of aircraft over 55 lbs you can fly more than 400 Feet. But many of your 100cc gasers easily go beyond 400 ft so this isn't something that "only jet" fliers have to worry about, I say just fly normally and unless FAA starts visiting flying sites you should be fine.

Dan,

Right now, THERE ARE NO FAA RULES for operating model aircraft for recreational purposes. See the last sentence: "Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines."

It is hoped that when the rules do come out - supposedly now in the spring of next year, that if you fly according to the rules of a community-based organization, such as the AMA, you will be exempt from the sUAS rules. Those that fly for hobby or recreation and DO NOT fly under the AMA rules, will be subject to more rules than just 400', like maximum weight of 25 lbs, max. speed of 100kts, and no turbines.

This is why it is so important that the AMA work to see that the intent of section 336 in the FAA Reauthorization Act is upheld to include AMA members...

Bob

The issue of registration and operational rules is separate at this time. The requirement to register is an "interim final rule" (that hopefully will be modified), while as I said above, there are no operational rules at this time. Just follow the AMA safety code, as we've been doing for 80+ years, and you are OK - for now, and hopefully in the future...

Bob

Bob, thank you for your insight. I understand that the 400 foot limit was always a recommendation, unless within 3 or 5 miles of an airport. IF there is a weight limit off 55 pounds is an enforceable limit, then 400 foot now is enforceable too. Yes, I realize that it is still in the recommendation stage, but I see this becoming a "hard" rule. I have had Officers of different Clubs enforce the 400 long before this year. But, that was at a Club that was 2.2nm from the center of a controlled airport. The President of that Club was ex Marine, and to him it was a cut and dry altitude limit, and no gray area. I can just see some of the electric guys, who hate noise of turbines and 170cc engines turn one of us in for this violation of what will become an FAA ruling.

There is the rub....... Enforcement!

When will the FAA have the employees or time to police us?

That Club will stop you always, no point in arguing with him. If you have a spotter and fly safely you can come and join us for now.

Hi Bob,

That takes me back to the ARC days of 2008! Do you think those rumours are still true?

Ugh, Matt.

You and BV called it.

Drones (although some stuff with them can be fun) are the death of us. The ama should never have lumped us all together.

As a matter of fact, helicopters not flying the pattern piss me off. Can we ban them too?!!

Thanks for the invite! Yes, it is a Club rule to fly with a spotter, and there is no altitude limit. One reason I moved to Cape Coral, it is a very jet friendly field. I just see that IF 55 pounds is now enforceable by the FAA, so will the 400 foot altitude. Enforcement won't come directly from the FAA, it will be someone who is jealous of your jets or large IMAC planes. Once turned in by someone in the Club, and not a Club officer, then the FAA will show up. In 20 years of professional jet flying, I was only ramped 3 times with no issues. So, I know they won't show up to a Club Field to spot check.

The height limit set by CASA (Civil Aviation Safety Authority) is 400ft. Flying above this limit is a cause for official complaint by CASA and/or Air Traffic Controllers in the Maroochydore Airport control tower. Full size aircraft are permitted to fly over the field at 500ft. Airspace must be cleared for any full size aircraft seen to be flying, or suspected to be flying, below an altitude of 500ft in the vicinity of the field.

These are my club rules in Australia I've been flying for last 30 years with no problems I've done Imac still have no problem with high limit and flying jets if you been flying long enough you should have no problem flying with your new rules

Damo

I had one guy call the park rangers (our field is on public property) on me because I didn't put up my member card while I was flying my 3-d foamy.

No. Lie.

So, there ARE people who can't wait to tattle tale. And I don't know why so many of them come to fly RC?

Make sure you have a spotter and use the see and avoid method at all times. There is no reason to have a hard cap when there are no full size in the area.
Vin...

Unless you are flying at an airport it is unlikely anyone will check or enforce any altitude limit, nor will they have a way to do it. If you are outside 5 miles from an airport this is even less likely. But then there are sometimes those Barney Fife boyscouts who think it's their duty to report you for any infraction of any rule, wether it is an FAA reg or just a recommended guideline.

This is what I am afraid of too!! It will happen!

I agree too, but we all didn't think we were going to have to register, and that is coming to be. And, the number one item on the FAA's Model Aircraft site, is not to fly above 400'. Number 6 is "Don't fly an airplane that weighs more then 55 pounds." 55 pounds is going to be a hard limit, and IMHO I foresee 400' becoming a hard limit.

We shouldn't keep our heads in the sand here!

[h=1]You must use the paper registration process if[/h]

• You use your aircraft for commercial purposes
• You use your aircraft for other than hobby and recreation
• Your aircraft is 55 lbs. or greater
• You intend to operate your aircraft outside of the United States

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certific...t_registry/UA/

Thank you for your input, but not really talking about which way we register. Talking about what will be come "Hard Rule Limits".

If you are up there above 400ft and a full size comes by about the same altitude he just might report it to the local tower. We are within 5 miles and this has happened to us several times even though we have mandatory spotters. Sh$t happens and it's difficult to get everyone in the club to conform. See and avoid does work.

FAA's Registration Web site is now OPEN! 400' is the First Rule!

[h=1]FAA Small Unmanned Aircraft Registration Begins[/h]

The FAA 400' rule is a Safety Guideline, not a regulation. How strictly it needs to be followed depends largely on proximity to airports ( within 5 miles) and possibly other factors.

Great.

If the FAA has indeed banned 400ft, jets are doomed.

See and avoid is the first and foremost common sense approach to all RC flying, regardless of altitude restrictions or other restrictions.

That is what the AMA says, not the FAA! In the registration, it clearly says 400' or below! Where is it listed as a "Safety Guideline" in current FAA rules? It also doesn't say anything about being with in 5 miles. Just a flat 400' through out the NAS! The 5 miles comes from the 2012 regs from Congress. Does a rule equal a reg? Let your lawyer work on that one! !

Trust me guys! I am not trying to argue a right or wrong here. I just think this is being over looked, and we are all going to be caught with our pants down, as we have with the AMA and this registration thing. It will be more then just registration!!

Don't fret yet. If you are over 5 miles from an airport you probably don't need to worry about any altitude restriction. Maybe having a spotter is a good idea though. Even if there is a 400' reg, and a way to measure it, it would not mean that jets are doomed, it would mean modifying the way we fly.