‘Yes but I also find the if I run my normal expo (one rate for all) with the CP ON it get mushy so I reduced that and it feel fine...

Awesome Scott!! What size turbine you installing in it? How long is the runway at your field. Is been awhile I can't remember? Maybe now you can host a F3S contest even if its just me and you flying. LoL...

I agree but he was asking if it affected the gyro itself. The Gyro acts the same with 100% expo or 0% expo. It’s only the sticks that feel different with expo.

Well potato's patates.........the end result is the same use lower expo with gyro on 😂

Hey Glen,

I hope you're doing well. I'm putting the Kingtech 140 in it. I'm looking for the F3S type flight so a 140 will be plenty. I thought about the 160 but decided to stick with my original plan. Our field is 800x200 grass. I was going to put on a F3S contest with our F3A contest in October but COVID said don't do it this year. Archie Stafford is actually going to come down and maiden it with me. He's been my mentor switching to jets and one heck of a friend. I'm really excited about this jet. Honestly, it's been a while since I've been looking forward to something in R/C and it's nice to have that excitement back.

Winter, I used to have the same questions about the relationship between expo and the gyro, Harry C has an excellent series of videos on both the CortexPro and JetiAssist that explains this relationship, they were definitely worth watching. I'll see if I can dig up a link for you. -Tom

Out in the field, I have found that most experienced pilots either zero out the expo on the transmitter or dial it back severely when using a gyro. I have had one manufacturer of gyro products actually tell me NOT to use expo when using a gyro. He indicated that the effects of expo can conflict with the gyro. But, ... I have never seen or heard the actual technical explanation of how they interfere with each other. I have played with this a lot and found that expo does not seem to affect the Igyro. But then I seldom go over 20% expo to start with. I tend to have less travel on my control surfaces and not depend on expo to keep me from applying too much surface to any particular situation. My gyro settings are always low too. I seldom use more then 30% gain on my Igyros. I usually start out with 0%, 20% and 25% gains on the switch.

I use about 20 to 25 percent expo with or without gyro. Don’t care what gyro manufacturers say it’s what feels good to me.

now for the AR gyro I don’t even set a gain it does that all automatically. You simply turn it on and it will max the gain to the flying conditions.

the cortex uses a higher gain setting the the Igryo . I gyro will be around 25 and cortex would be almost 45 on the same planes.

Does anyone have a bottom view of the Red Bull Scheme?

does it have to be 2.2m T1? I’ve got two minis in Red Bull scheme.

Now that you said that I went to the Mini page and it has a ton of RB pics on it, and the 2.2 only has one pic. Thanks! I have a flat camo T1 now and haven't flown it yet but I think the RB will be easier to see..... I might even try a light silver on the bottom to get more contrast.

My 2.2m T1 is the red white scheme, it’s definitely easier to see than my Red Bull mini due to the better color contrast.

‘For sure.......it’s probably just a black dot flying.......just like my Mercedes scheme...some of these are gorgeous on the ground.....but in the air they are not the best...

Exactly.

I originally wanted the Audi scheme. That was until I saw videos of it. Kind of underwhelming. Then I saw the monster scheme. This scheme really looked good in the air and the wing tips popped. So I changed my mind and went with the red version. I really like it as it looks good on the ground and I know it will look good in the air.

Probably doing the maiden on my T-1 this coming Friday. Performing a punch list of things to check before the flight. Hopefully I get videos up.

Good luck and get video if you can. This jet seems to have no bad habits with easy maidens from everything I have read. I can't wait to get mine up.

Hi Len, I believe the rationale behind the guidance of minimal use or reduced use of expo by gyro manufacturers is that gyro gain is suppressed progressively as control stick travel is increased. I think the problem is that they do not use stick position as a basis for this, as they do not have access to a sensor on the stick. Instead, they use the % of input or travel (ATV) being sent by the transmitter. So logically, if you have 50% expo, I believe the effect would be that ~1/2 the stick travel "may feel" more of the effect of the gyro gain with minimal suppression due to the counter-acting expo. Does that make sense? Minimal suppression may equate to less feel while you're trying to control the plane since the gyro is still damping / holding to a certain degree. If no expo were to be used the gyro would begin to reduce the gain progressively as the travel increases, linearly from zero % travel. But expo flattens the curve in relation to stick travel (less curve = less travel), that is where there is a presumed level of overlap or counteracting taking place. I have both prop-planes and jets that feel very mushy with gyro gain and expo at minimal stick input. But the stability or hold being provided by the gyro may feel perfect, so I do not want to decrease the gyro gain. But the flight control characteristics feel less sensitive or mushy then if I were just using expo. I have also had planes, jets in particular, that felt just right using both. Simply put, I believe this is because every plane is different and some planes are a lot more sensitive to travel than others. There is no perfect default setup, you need to tune and adjust all of the factors at play, per plane.

Disclaimer, this is my interpretation (opinion) of the situation, and I mean situation deliberately as I do not see this as a actual problem. I kind of see it as added setup flexibly. In essence, you have more knobs to use to fine tune your setup for optimal feel. Example, if your jet feels too mushy close to center or between 0-25% stick. You can decrease gain or expo, or a little of both to tune to the right feel. Also, feel may mean stick control or plane stability at zero stick in relation to gyro damping / hold. You want to make both feel right, no? I sometimes see pilots follow a certain path, whether right or wrong because it is what works for them. It is what makes them feel comfortable or they are simply accustomed to doing it in a certain way. Again, not right or wrong - it is what is right for them. I don't think there is a right or wrong in this case either, but I think it is important to think through what is actually happening. That way you can make logical corrections and adjustments if something doesn't feel right. A lot of times people don't like a plane or believe it has bad habits because they have never really finished tuning or setting it up fully. Sorry for going long on the reply, just my 2 cents - I hope it helps!

One silly but important question. I have always used the turbine oil mixed with Jet-A. I know this has been covered a lot but just to finalize my decision. I own a Jetcat P-120 and it’s run perfectly. I will switch to diesel and an oil additive. I have turbine oil with me. What’s the alternative to the turbine oil? I have heard but the Jetcat oil. Jetcat doesn’t make oil right? My buddies say use dominator two cycle with a specific ratio. What do you guys use?

Thanks

I use ONLY Kingtech Oil.. I use it on other manufacturers engines as well.. It really is in my opinion the best.

You don't have to run Diesel in your Kingtech. I own multiple turbines from various manufacturers and they don't all allow diesel, but they do all allow Kero, so I run Kero in all of my turbines to avoid the need for managing different fuels. Yes, diesel has slightly more energy density and thrust but for me the inconvenience of different fuel cans was not worth it. -Tom

NEVER run 2 stroke oil in any turbine.

I think jet central still ok's it, but it is the worst oil to use, imo. The are jet oils that aren't all that great. It depends on the turbine, as far as what oil they recommend. Kingtech recommends their oil, and I'm sure it's a good oil. But Badboyzrc.com also sells oil that is good. It's what I would run if I wasn't getting Mobil jet II for free. Of the jet oil's I recommend it, or exxon 2380.

Cool! I didn't know Kingtech made RTF planes, I thought they just made turbines.

Hi guys, I finally flew my T-1 yesterday. Everything went very well. It flies beautifully. Thank you all for your support and valuable advice in building my first jet. ***winter***
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...c0cbf1c5aa.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...23f8591fe6.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...977e280636.jpg