Diesel vs jet-A
So guys, thought I would ask which one guys are using, I would assume jet-A but now the turbine builders say either in some cases. What's the ups and downs, price obviously being one of them.
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I'm still fairly new to turbines, but I've only ever run diesel. The advantages I've read are, more power, better fuel economy, better availability and less expensive.
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Diesel have more power ( 8300 Kcal / Kg x 8466 Kcal / Kg ) , less sulfur , high flash point , after many questions to manufacturers , i started use on my engines, and, after around 120 hs in 5 engines, with 3 inspections and bearing changes after more 40 hs run time on 2 of my engines, i dont back to jeta1.
I change the oil too, today MOBIL DTE 32. i'm happy with the results, and, is very easy to me buy JETA1, the airport gas station is very close to my office, but, today i cant see any reason to use it!!! hope help jose |
There's several pages on this somewhere here but the consensus (if you can have that on RCU) is most of the guys are running diesel now.
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Thanks guys. So is this OK in all older units as well like jetcat p80 se
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The consensus may be for diesel on those engines that can drink it. I still prefer K1 Kerosene, Of the 3 fuels it has the lowest stink, (at least to the better half's and my noses) and since my jets live in the house, that means more to me than the ease of getting or the slightly lower price of diesel. Jet-A stinks the worst.
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I know at one time, Redman blessed the use of diesel in all of the jetcat motors. Now whether that still stands today, I don't know
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All ours engines runs diesel ( p80se, p90rxi, p140rx, p70 ), without any problem.
jose |
I've seen one jet cat P - 80 refused to run on diesel would after a few minutes start popping and over temp on diesel switched back to Kero and jet A cured problem . Terry
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Most of these things depend on where you are - the quality of diesel is NOT the same everywhere and the price of both fuels varies.
IMO the safe option is always Jet A, If you do use diesel then you should go for one of the premium versions eg Shell Vpower, as they contain additives that promote complete combustion. Where I live diesel is usually more than twice the price of Jet A (because of tax) so it is no contest. Don't follow this forum - follow your local fliers! |
Thanks for the information, its real hard to find information that simply compares the two fuels and the true difference between the two. Clearly both will work but to what extent is the question. I would assume that Jet A has more additives for the full scale aviation segment and how that translates to our turbines is the question. I know KingTech fully endorses it and seem to prefer it. JetCat has given it the green light as well.
Price, check Availability, check More Power, check Longevity and bearing life ??? |
In 2 set of bearings i had the same longevity, aftter 3 inspections, and, 1 set doesnt changed after 28 hrsrun time, on diesel.
jose |
Originally Posted by Kelly Rohrbach
(Post 12243134)
Thanks guys. So is this OK in all older units as well like jetcat p80 se
I had the Jet P-80se for years in a Sprint jet. One day I GPSed it at 172mph with Kero. I then drained the tank and added Diesel.. It hit 197mph!! (straight and level, No dive!) Enough said? lol I continued to run the diesel without issue for 2 more years. I never heard any bearing squeal.. but when it hit 25hrs I sent it into JC to be replaced. They never said there was any problems. I only sold that engine because there service is so piss poor(4 months to service) The convenience and the LOW cost of diesel is a no brainer. Now some have mentioned that diesel also has its own lubricants...Most likely true.. but I still added 5% Kingtech oil and never had a problem. Check out the power :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdnDfXPDAo |
Originally Posted by Vettster
(Post 12243735)
Let me put your mind at ease Kelly...
I had the Jet P-80se for years in a Sprint jet. One day I GPSed it at 172mph with Kero. I then drained the tank and added Diesel.. It hit 197mph!! (straight and level, No dive!) Enough said? lol I continued to run the diesel without issue for 2 more years. I never heard any bearing squeal.. but when it hit 25hrs I sent it into JC to be replaced. They never said there was any problems. I only sold that engine because there service is so piss poor(4 months to service) The convenience and the LOW cost of diesel is a no brainer. Now some have mentioned that diesel also has its own lubricants...Most likely true.. but I still added 5% Kingtech oil and never had a problem. Check out the power :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdnDfXPDAo As far as low cost goes - well over here diesel is VERY heavily taxed as road fuel and so costs twice the price of Jet A1. I have seen some evidence that PREMIUM diesel may have some advantages in terms of complete combustion if you want to minimise emission of unburnt hydrocarbons. |
Kelly on the bench at Kingtech we have seen about a 5% increase in performance. Also the engines don't stink when they come in for service and that makes the service guys happy.
When we switch a Kingtech engine over to diesel we have to turn the start settings down because the diesel burns hotter and that is a good thing. |
Originally Posted by cmp3cantrj
(Post 12243842)
Your speed test doesn't add up to a valid experiment -way too many uncontrolled variables - especially since it is a GPS speed and not an airspeed. Frankly I don't believe that fuel change could make such a difference. It is a source of heat and diesel heat simply cannot be any different to Jet A1 heat.
s. |
Originally Posted by cmp3cantrj
(Post 12243589)
Most of these things depend on where you are - the quality of diesel is NOT the same everywhere and the price of both fuels varies.
IMO the safe option is always Jet A, If you do use diesel then you should go for one of the premium versions eg Shell Vpower, as they contain additives that promote complete combustion. Where I live diesel is usually more than twice the price of Jet A (because of tax) so it is no contest. Don't follow this forum - follow your local fliers! So just buy reg diesel. Want to save on the taxes?? buy Heating oil! Its the same thing without the taxes!! Its just colored Red so it can be identified. Stop commenting without getting a basic knowledge first! |
Originally Posted by gunradd
(Post 12243849)
Kelly on the bench at Kingtech we have seen about a 5% increase in performance. Also the engines don't stink when they come in for service and that makes the service guys happy.
When we switch a Kingtech engine over to diesel we have to turn the start settings down because the diesel burns hotter and that is a good thing. |
Originally Posted by Kelly Rohrbach
(Post 12243613)
Thanks for the information, its real hard to find information that simply compares the two fuels and the true difference between the two.
So JetA is to prefer as it's always the same - diesel is to prefer as it smells less and is avalable all over. Then there are a various of lamp oils or kerosene that some run, but over here we can not get it. $40 per liter or so, which sort of leaves it out of a resonable range. |
Kelly, for reference a liter of Diesel weighs 875 grams, Kerosene 817 grams, and Jet A 810g...
If weight is of no issue Diesel is a good choice.... In my experience lighter flies better... David.. |
Originally Posted by LA jetguy
(Post 12244089)
If weight is of no issue Diesel is a good choice.... In my experience lighter flies better...
David.. |
Jose is a guy that flies a lot and burns a lot of fuel, in this case diesel.. he never had issue with it. In fact, his ball bearings looked like new in the 50 hours turbine disassembly.
About diesel being heavier than jet a1 is correct, but boy...this is so wrong! LOL |
Originally Posted by Henke Torphammar
(Post 12244046)
It's not two fuel but one specific fuel (Jet A) put against a whole brand that differs allot. Diesel can be almost everything from Jet A to almost pure soy oil. Over here we got Diesel that includes 5% RME (rape seed oil) which makes it ready to run from the tap! much less smell and available every where. But I know there are other belnds of diesel too that won't work. They got a thing called bio diesel here too. They let RME react with methanol to get a much more fluent bio oil that suites modern cars. How ever with the turbines it might not work.
So JetA is to prefer as it's always the same - diesel is to prefer as it smells less and is avalable all over. Then there are a various of lamp oils or kerosene that some run, but over here we can not get it. $40 per liter or so, which sort of leaves it out of a resonable range. I had done some testings with various bio-diesels at least few years ago, and none seemed to have any adverse effect or performance on our engine. The only difference I seem to remember was the smell of bio-diesel and smoked a little more than road diesel during shut down. Regards, Barry |
So it sounds like Diesel is fine to use with no ill effects to the engine. So as long as the turbine manufacture has no issue with it in terms of warranty its good to go.
I would assume then just do the 1 Qt to 5 Gal mix as usual and have fun. :) |
Originally Posted by LA jetguy
(Post 12244089)
Kelly, for reference a liter of Diesel weighs 875 grams, Kerosene 817 grams, and Jet A 810g...
If weight is of no issue Diesel is a good choice.... In my experience lighter flies better... David.. POWER flies better:) |
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