What counts as a high performance aircraft
 

Hey guys I want to work towards a turbine waiver. I've been sport flying for 20 years. I've read the AMA turbine waiver document and read I need to have 50 flights on a high performance aircraft. I currently fly IMAC style 35% extra 260 but would that count as high performance? I want to use what I have already so I can save my money for my first jet. Thinking of a good EDF but those are nearly the same as a turbine setup

Your experience should meet the letter of the rule but I'm wondering if you have any Pattern experience or maybe pylon racing? The reason being that those models behave much differently than your IMAC birds and very similar to a turbine; smaller control deflections, smooth control inputs and with jets, it's all about landing. The throttle delay can be difficult to get a handle on as you must think so much further ahead of the model for adding power. It's better with the newer turbines that spool up a lot faster than the old ones, but you still 'gotta wait, then wait for the airframe to be accelerated as there's no propwash over the control surfaces to get you some additional control authority.

You do not need a waiver for an EDF and despite your thought that those are nearly as expensive as a turbine, that's not the case in virtually all instances. Several of the guys around here and started with a foam EDF that you can buy RTF or BNF and that will teach you something about the throttle lag, and quite a bit about how a turbine will behave in the air. Plus it isn't going to cost you a fortune if you put it in the dirt.

Do some more reading/investigating on your available options.

An IMAC or 3D plane is not high performance
In 510-A you will see the pilot requirements for a waiver.

I have helped 4 guys get there waver, I have convinced all 4 of them to get the 1M Rifle from Great Planes/Tower. You can get one for under $300 rtf. To me they are one of the best and cheapest turbine trainer planes. In stock set up they do around 125MPH, They are really small, and will disappear when pointed towards you, they are really good at making you start thinking one step ahead, which is critical with RC jets due to there speed, pulse they fly faster than the 100mph stated in the AMA rules.

The best advice is to find someone who already has a waver who is close by to help you. I also used the buddy box and let all 4 guys fly my Velox XL, which help with confidence.

Also I put all 4 on buddy box for there first flight with there new jet, it worth it to save you a lot of $$

I ALSO try to get them to buy a TopFlite Gaint war bird of any type, this way they can build and get used to a heavy loaded plane, and get used to retracts, and gear doors, etc.

Also don't forget to get your own CO2 fire extinguisher.

Ever put a radar gun on a 35% or 40% plane? They hit 100mph easily and often. They don't look like it because they are so big. I had a Lanier Laser with a Sachs 4.2 I thought was doing 75-80. First pass through the radar gun UPWIND read 108mph.

EDF is a good way to get started. You learn quickly that unless there is significant forward movement the flight surfaces have no effect. Even with the instantaneous spool up of an EDF, it still takes a significant amount of time to get the plane moving again. But EDF's don't really give you the skills you need to deal with turbine lag, especially on an older turbine. Also ,most EDFs don't give you any experience with braking once you are back on the ground.

The electronic setup for a jet is quite a bit more complex for a turbine, and there really isn't a good guide out there that helps you put all the electronic components together into a flyable system. A new Jet Guy needs to do a lot of reading and listening. Best bet is to link up with some Jet Guys and work as their helper for a while. They will teach you and you may even get one of them to help you build your first jet. I have found that if you get in with the Jet Guys, they will help you be successful.

Also, the more Jet Guys you interact with the more you will see the "better setups." Not everyone does things the same way. I have seen some really bad cobble jobs out there. You can spend a lot of $s quickly on a lot of trivial products that is out there. Learn from the guys who already figured out what does and does not work!

Lastly, when you get to your first jet build, KISS. Then get a Jet Guy on the Buddy box with you and get some practice. First build should be a trainer (Excalibur, used Sprint, etc.) If you go scale for a first jet, you will have needless problems. Also, when transitioning to jet #2, be ready for big changes, if you decide to move up to scale or a superfast sport jet. These transitions can be challenging as each jet lands differently and different pilots land the same model differently. Find someone with successful experience on that model and listen to what they tell you. It is a big transition to Jets. Unless you have very deep pockets, it is best to learn from the mistakes and experience of others.

I want to see someone flying something high performance, with more let like wing loading using proper landing techniques and smooth controls at high speeds before I even entertain doing a waiver flight or flights with them.

Just about anything here will get you ready for a turbine jet. But you still need a lot of time with turbine guys learning procedures, and setups etc.

https://www.motionrc.com/collections...and-ducted-fan

I take it you wouldn't do a waiver flight on a Boomerang then? :D

Andy has flown just about any type of model there is and I have quite a bit of IMAC bird experience.

I will tell you as Andy already has; there 'ain't no comparison to a turbine dude.....

Actually if you tinker with a throttle curve a bit, you can speed up the response from an EDF which helps a new guy get started and then you can also slow it down which helps him get prepared for a turbine. Granted it's still not like a turbine, but it's a lot slower than a prop.... lol

Oh, don't buy 'no old turbines with ramp speeds that will allow you to read a book while waiting for the engine to spool up.... ;)

okay. I ordered the GP Rifle. ESC is on backorder. So are the servos I picked out. The wait begins =). Should I keep a log of my flights or should I just fly and then expect to fly to get my street-cred from who ever I fly with in the future?

cmoore806,
M2C, Slow down. I would have gotten something with a landing gear and flaps. Part of obtaining your wavier is takeoff, landing and miss approach (go around). There are several quality EDF jets out there that would be great trainers.

Cheers!
Desert Fox 1

My comment was no slight to Andy's experience. I was just pointing out that according to the AMA rules a giant scale IMAC plane does meet the letter of the rule, dude. I understand what it takes to fly a jet.

I'm still lost on what an overpowered glider with no gear or flaps is supposed to help you with. I mean if you want something fast get the race Mustang from Motion. At least it has gear and flaps because every turbine jet will have them.

Cancel that order and go with one of these, It will get you far closer to where you want to be...

https://www.motionrc.com/collections/jets-and-ducted-fan/products/freewing-stinger-90-edf-jet-pnp

https://www.motionrc.com/collections/sport-and-racer-airplanes/products/rochobby-strega-p-51-pnp

An EDF is as close as your going to get to a turbine powered jet w/o actually getting the turbine. But, ... how about this: Get a real turbine powered jet and fly it on the buddy box. You can get all the practice you need. But, ... get a trainer (i.e. nothing scale or fancy.) The key to success will be linking up with some experienced Jet Guys to help build it and fly it.

The guys are right about getting used to flaps, brakes and retracts. Every plane is different. You switch to a new model and there will be a period of time it takes to integrate them into a successful landing.

A Habu 32 (fiberglass fuse, balsa wings) is a good alternative, but will cost approximately $1200 with the right setup and batteries. It is capable of good speed, but will cost much less than your top end edf units. Personally, I would opt to spend my money on a suitable turbine-powered model and get buddy box time with an experienced turbine flyer. With the RC experience this guy has, transitioning to turbine-powered models will not be that difficult.

I'm not from your side of the pond but seems to me the rules need a little clarifying.............

marcs

Just get a boomerang jet. They are simple and easy to set up. Get the turbine your getting one anyway. Find a jet guy to put you on a buddy box for the first few flights. You will like it as the boomers are aerobatic and easy to fly. Once you get the waiver get something more high performance but you will use your boomer as a everyday flyer they are fun.

I attached what needs to be accomplished to obtain a turbine waiver over here in the USA (see page 2 of the attached doc.). For me, with lots of Giant plane fight time and a couple flights on my own Sprint, it was easy. Getting a Turbine waiver should not be difficult for a very experienced flyer. IMHO why waste $s on an EDF. Just get right to turbines. But, again, I spent some of the previous summer hanging out with Jet Guys with my nose down in their planes and the previous winter reading about the electronic systems in a jet, building a Sprint and lots of time on RealFlight's L-39. I never did buddy box for practice. The involved CDs were familiar with my experience level and just let me go for the waiver, which I qualified for on my first flight.

As I understand it Larry is looking for a new company to manufacture Boomerangs. Getting a new Sprint is not an option. A used one may out there. He did have a few of the larger Boomerangs left. But then you are getting away from a low cost trainer. Xcaliburs were available last time I checked but they are a bit more costly. The Dolphins are still available also.

Best advice here.

Really, go find some guys, find a guy you have some flying chemistry with and ask his advice. Buy what he recommends, get your waiver and move on. Unless you are Ali, you will scratch up your first jet, so its advisable to not get the prettiest jet on the block.

+1

Bob

I'd hope so, I'm sure everyone else is as sick as I was about having to make a new jet fit and work.

During the Sprint's build I was disappointed that problems that were discovered years earlier were not fixed on my build. But, ... Then I built a Hanger 9 project and comparatively, the Sprint's issues were minor!