RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Kevin,

Where did you find that you could not use an 8411 with 6 volts? All I use is 6 volt packs.

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

David,

You are using a REGULATED six volt pack. I've called the techies at JR and asked them about unregulated and regulated packs. I was told that under no circumstances I should run any more than 5.5 volts unregulated. The digital amplifier can burn up. I then posed the question that at times an unregulated 4.8 volt pack can exceed 5.5 volts hot off of the charger. Their reply was that an unregulated 4.8 volt pack won't be above 5.5 volts for a very long time. The way I understood it was that prolonged use above 5.5 volts can burn up the amp in an 8411.

The Hitecs are rated for both 4.8 and 6.0 volt packs.

Kevin

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

In my jets yes I am using regulators but in a Giant scale aerobat I used to have I ran them at full 5 cell pack for about 3 years no problems I used to fly it as much as my jets.

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

I have used the 8411 and the 5945. I did not like the gear slop on the 8411, but after about 180 flights on my Bobcat, they have been perfect. I have used the 8411 elswhere with no problems.

My friend, thu, lost TWO 8411 in his H9 Cap 232's rudder, and JR replaced them free and recommeded he uses a matchbox.

I have used 5945 on my hot spot and had one tiny problem. It SEEMS that if you bump the servo when it is on at idle, the centering gets shifted and you may have to re-trim the plane a click or two.Other than that, the 5945 has been terrific. Love the programability too.

I guess both servos have their pros and cons.....

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

I guess you get good and bad servos from any manufacturer. My personal experience with 8411's has been good. Hitecs not so great. Recently I started having problems with the Hitec 5945's on my H9 Su31 rudder. They dont center properly and no amount of reprogramming solves the problem. I am replacing them with 8411's. However, I have the Hitec 5925 on ailerons and another pair of 5945's on elevator that so far are working well.

Personally, I believe the quality control at JR is better but that a good 5945 is as good as normal 8411:D

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

The 8411 does have a gear wear issue in high vibration environments. I've been running 8411's in a variety of applications however and when the vibration isn't an issue, neither is the gear wear. The 8411 on my electric pattern airplane is as solid as the day I installed it.

Hardly. The majority of the jet community has no idea what a good mechanical setup looks like. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people setup their 200mph+ capable aircraft with ATV's in the 30-40% range because of poor mechanical setups. There are a FEW who understand, but most guys do not.

Sorry, but that's not entirely true. Curtiss Youngblood drove the creation of the 8311 servo for a variety of reasons. 1st he was using 8231 gears in the 8411 to eliminate the gear lash. The 8231 gear train however couldn't handle the power of the 8411 motor and he was breaking gear sets. So they put in a lower power motor to let the servo stall before the gear train would fail. The 8411 motors also had an issue with the workload the helicopters put on them and the lower power motor of the 8311 also solved this issue.

Where do you get your information? I've been running 8411's longer than anyone here and have never had a problem running 6v both regulated and unregulated. The only reason I use regulators right now is because I run Duralite Plus batteries which are 7.4 volts. The only issue with 6v is you need to have your mechanical setup done well or you risk the narrow deadband in the servo fighting itself with a heavy control surface.

I've never brow beaten anyone for suggesting alternatives to products I represent, but some of your information about JR servos is just not correct. Use whatever works for you. If Hitec servos do the job for you, then be all means use them. No manufacturer is without the occasional problem in a product. That includes JR, Hitec, Futaba, Airtronics, Multiplex, etc.

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Doug,

As is the norm in this forum when you represent a product, even though it is a top notch product you immediately have no knowledge of that product, no experience with that product, and then are criticised for promoting that product. Makes you wonder why any of us share our experience.

David Reid

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Pilots,
I have packed my 8411 servos with lithium grease and it takes all the slop out - makes them feel as stiff as a hydraulic actuator - the current draw went up to 100 milliamps no load - measured with my Fluke DVM - but since I use a 5 cell 7000 mah pack-NO regulator - it does not matter anyway - I would rather use a large battery than have "dead lead" for the CG. At least it works for me.

Jackjet

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Turbulence, are you familiar with JR's 4721 servo? It's something like 140 OZ torque for around $80.00. I just bought a couple to try them out on a project I'm working on.

Sean

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Doug,

Tell me what part of my post concerning 8411's in helis is UNTRUE??? All you did was to elaborate as to what I had already said.

As far as running JR digitals on six volts---I spoke with one of the techs at Horizon. This is where I got my information. Someone in the field like yourself needs to communicate with the tech on the bench to get the facts straight. I specifically asked why there wasn't a six volt rating on the information on the back of the container the servo is packaged in. The tech told me there is no rating due to the digitals not being able to run on a five cell pack. That's when I was told about blown amps....Etc...I was also told that the warranty is VOID if I attempt to run JR digitals on a five cell pack!!!!

As I said before, this is a thread offering alternatives to the 8411. I mentioned the Hitec 5945 and I get flamed for it...Others chimed in on the 8411 and how it is superior. Well, I really don't think that the 8411 is superior and I've stated why in a previous post. My personal experiences with the 8411 have been good from a reliability standpoint. They have served me well except for slop in the gears and gear wear. One of my flying buddies wasn't as fortunate. A failed 8411 cost him a $6,000 plane. My point in making this statement is that I too understand that any servo can fail. I have flown Futaba, Airtronics, and JR. I've also had a few of the not so well known radios in my 25 years of flying R/C. I've been flying the JR PCM series of radios since the first PCM 10 came out and I've never looked back. My current TX is a JR PCM 10SX-II. I don't care for digital trims so I guess this radio will have to last me a while. Until recently, I've used nothing but JR servos on all control surfaces. I would not go to any other brand of radio as I really like my JR equipment. I tried a Hitec 5945 and liked it's versatality and performance (So far!!). Am I a traitor to JR???? Hardly!!! I just don't like the 8411 only because of gear slop and wear!!! I really hope that the 8611 lives up to the hype. If so, I doubt I'll buy many more 5945's due to the higher torque and better gear train in the 8611. It would be real nice though if JR came out with their own servo programer.[8D]


Kevin

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Kevin, you've got me really confused. I spoke to a technician as outlined above at Horizon and they told me specifically that 5 CELLS IS ABSOLUTELY FINE TO RUN ON THE 8411'S.

Now I'm not sure what to think. I can say there are tons of guys running them for sure through a regulator at 5.2 volts with no apparent issues.

I can say that I'm running 8411's on the elevator of my isobar unregulated on 5 cell pack with no issues shown at or around 50 flights.

Who can get to the bottom of this?

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Also, I can say a lot of things I don't like about David Reid, but on the positive side, I doubt anything he's written here about his experiance was meant to put you over any sort of edge to cause all that backlash there.

And like I said, becuase of the problems I had with the 5645, I'll never give another buck to Hitec. I do not want them to succeed based on my own experiance and people I know in this hobby who've lost stuff and been told "you should have used a BETTER servo" when they called Hitec to discuss it.

That's the biggest bunch of garbage I've ever heard. Hitec can suck off on that one.

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Sean,

I can understand your frustration with Hitec...The answer you received was very unprofessional. I did a LOT of investigating before I purchased my Hitec digitals. The 600 series and 5600 series of servos have problems. I sifted through information to attempt to pick out the good and the bad. As far as I'm concerend the 5945 is a very good servo. The little Hitec thin wing mount digital worked extremely well in the vertical stabs on my HotSpot for the rudders.

As far as my backlash to David...I think that overall he really tries to help guys out. I guess that it's how he delivers his message that can turn people off. Conviction is one thing but to come off to me as someone that has done it all and seen it all is a little ballzy..In David's last post some his points could be applied to me. All I did was to tell my experience and I get flamed. I, too, wonder why I bother. I'm going to edit my post. Right or wrong this is not the place to post what I wrote.

I called Horizon not long after the 8411 was made available. I called to ask if the play in the gears in my newly purchased servos was normal. This is when I also asked my other questions concerning this servo. It would be nice if Horizon would update information and keep us informed.

Kevin

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Could somebody explain to me in simple terms “what is wrong with HITEC HS-5645MG programmable digital servos?

Upon the advice of my LHS I bought and installed 2 of the servos in my U-Can-Do (60 size powered with YS120FS ) last month. It works flawlessly and I bought 4 more last week to use on my newly acquired Rookie wings. Is this move going to be a costly move and if so why?

Thanks in advance for your prompt response. BTW, if you do not like to share your info in public, a PM would be appreciated.

Regards

Ben

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Ben,

I understand that in some circumstances they will go "hard over" and stay there. (And/or locking up. Some have had problems centering) The 5945 is a MUCH better servo. Do a search in the radio forum for more info. I'm using only one servo per elevon in my Rookie (5945) and the performance is fine. There was a guy at Superman with a P-120 powered Rookie that went like a rocket ship---He had only one servo per elevon as he too thought that two were not needed unless you prefer the redundancy of the two extra servos. He really pushed his plane hard. It's really up to the individual if you want to run two or four servos.

Kevin

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Kevin

Thanks bud for the information. I've been using MULTIPLEX servos and since HITEC and MULTIPLEX are the same, I took my LHS’s advice and bought the HITEC servos. I will return them (the 4 in my Rookie wings) tomorrow for the 5945 you are using.



Regards

Ben

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Ben,

If you do a seach you will see that many guys have nothing but praise for the 5900 series of servos. The 5600 digital series is really more of a digital sport servo. A lot of the giant scale guys love the 5945's and have the same issues about the 8411's as I do. The conversations concerning the 5945's vs the 8411's kind of even parallel this thread...Same arguements---Different forums.

I've got a Super Bandit that I'll need servos for on the future. I'll give the 8611's the nod to see for myself if the gear play is gone. I'll use these on the elevators.

Kevin

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

[:o]

O.K. guys, can we focus here for a bit. I did say I still use them (Hi-Tec), but for what I need they just won't do but that was my personal reasons. If you have an alternative to the 8411, (other than already mentioned) Please post it. If not please help me keep the "Mine is better than yours" for another threads

Turbulence

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

After reading this and other posts on the JR 8411 vs Hitec 5945, I am just as confused. I have long been a user of JR gear, 10X Tx 811's in my .60 to .90 size planes and Raptor 30 apart from the tail rotor. Also use 8231's for Ailerons and elevators on my 2 m models with 8411 on the rudder.

Now my next big decision. I am about to start assembling my Composite-ARF 2.6M Extra 330L and I need to decide on servos.

I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THIS PLANE THROUGH FAULTY GEAR

My original plan was to use 8411's, 2 ea Aileron, 1 ea stab and 2 ganged for the rudder. After being to the Tucson Shootout and talking with a few of the owners, I find myself with more options.

In a nutshell I am trying to decide between :-
Plan A 8411's all round
Plan B Hitec 5945's Ail/Elev and a single HS5735MG for the rudder
Plan C Same as B except gang 2 5945"s for the rudder

Any help appreciated

Thanks
Alan

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Alan,

8411's all around will not be a bad or unsafe decision. I haven't used the other servos so I can't comment on them.

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

If there is question as to the performance of the 8411's or the 3301's for that matter, check out the Mississippi Gang at Lake Wales. Watch the KingCats yank and bank with the 8411's.

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Bob:

Did you say the Swampers are coming to Lake Wales????

The last couple of years, all I heard was a bunch of wimpy excuses from David as to why they weren't coming.....sounds like they finally caved!

Should be a great meeting this year....10th anniversary, all the Brits, and now the Gang....

Question is, have you made up your mind yet?? Got to know how much Gerbers for snacks to bring..:D

Tom

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

I tried to Talk Covish into going with me to Lake Whales at Lunch today. Something about PRIORITIES :) ??????????

Oh well, you can lead an old Mail Man to fun, but you can't....................

Tom, you going? I'm crating up the Isobar this weekend to send it down there.

Sean

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

I'll be there Thursday morning setting up, Sean.....

Might spend a day or 2 at Ocala Club field on the way down...

As soon as I finish my KingCat, I will be back on my Isobar....glad you are bringing yours down....

Keep working on Bobbo....

Tom

RE: 8411 Alternative.
 

Tom, the MS gang are trying to get it together. As for me, I have a scheduleing conflight and am trying to get it worked out. Finished the Super Bandit and am hitting the KingCat hard. Came to one conclusion, if you aren't looking for tools on the work bench, you aren't building airplanes. About one forth of my time is spent looking for tools or parts.

Joey and Scott will be there. Scott has a new KC.