Will the lies ever stop!
 

I guess that this might stir up the pot but here it goes. My dealer was told last week that his discount was being cut in half by Jetcat USA so as to not raise the price to the US customers, so what did I see just 5 minutes ago on Jetcats USA's site. The new prices that will go into effect Jan 6, 2004. So how many of you beside me are ready to cancel the P-160's and 200's that we have been waiting for since Jetcat can't seem to have motors to ship but yet they they raise the prices , and the AMA can't decide on how much thrust we can have. I for one am not ready to have 15K worth of paper weights! Looks like time for some competition in the turbine world.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Have you been folowing the exchange rate of the euro lately? I would also suspect that the exchange rate should go down since saddam was captured. BTW I paid for my P-200 today and from what I understand there are some P-160's in stock.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Yes David ,
I have been watching the exchange rates.That is why I asked just last week on when I could expect my engine and what the cost would be since the euro was at 1.22 to the dollar. I was told that my price was not going to go up since Jetcat USA had decided that the market was at all we would bear and that the only real way to keep the prices in line was to cut the dealer discounts. That opinion obviously has changed since last week. If JETCAT USA can deliver a P-200 engine RIGHT NOW AT the old PRICE ILL TAKE IT! Since winter is 5 days away and they said" P-200's this Fall $4795" NOT ME! Other wise I am going to sit and wait for the dollar to get stronger and or for the other companies to setup and give Jetcat some real competition with this auto start stuff and not promise after unfulfilled promise.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

I bought a P-70 from Art's Hobbies last month. They also had a P-160 in stock. I don't know if they still have it, but maybe.
JA

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

I think thats what you call Supply and Demand.

NdFrSpeed

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Can I pay for my P200 now???
Scott

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

NdFrSpeed
I wouldn't have a problem with it being supply and demand if: Jetcat USA could really supply the motors when they say they are going to. I waited over 9 months for my P160 and was told when I ordered it from Matt at Jetcat that a motor ordered that day would be about a 2 month wait since they would soon be shipping 15 a month, so at 15 a month times 9 months thats 135 motors . Well it was over a year ago that I ordered one and I have never got even close to getting one, Then all of them {p-160's} had some kind of issuse that needed to be taken care of and so I ordered a P-200 that was to be here this fall. Well as I said before winter is 5 days away and where I grew up a man as only as good as his words and deeds. I am not upset with the wait as much as with the lies. If it takes a year to get something tell me and don't tell my dealer that you are not going to raise the price and a week later do just that. The exchange rate is one thing but to tell your customers one thing and do another if not good for building trust!

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Guys

I don't want to sound like an expert in international business, but the dollar/Euro ratio isn't JetCat's ploy to rip anyone off. It is just a fact of economics and is partly due to the US wanting the dollar to slip in value in relation to other currencies. It helps our exports. The ratio is not going to change just because they caught Saddam either. Furthermore, JetCat isn't making any more money or raking in extra profits because of the exchange. On the contrary they are being hurt because of it. IMHO they make a superior product, for a niche market and considering the cost performance ratio they're still the best thing going. Just my .02 worth.

Best regards

Greg Anixter

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Planecrazy

I totally agree with you,but thats all I could say and be nice about it.Your right about one thing,all a person has in life is your honesty and integrity.One thing I hate in life the worst above all,is someone saying something they cant back up,and wont tell you about,like when I order something the frist thing I ask,IS IT IN STOCK,if not tell me,dont tell me it is and then I find out its not.In my life a person is no better than there word.

NdFrSpeed

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Not to say I'm an international business expert either, but the slipping value of the US dollar is a direct result of an increasing deficit, and until the deficit decrease we can expect the price of foreign goods to keep going up.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

We all waited for the P120 and then the P160, and now we will have to wait for the P200 [:@].

I am sure that Jetcat USA knows that it is NOT in their best interest to lie to paying customers (Bob Wilcox, Justin and J.Redman have been very honost with me). The lengthy wait has been due to many reasons such as supply of parts from Germany, updates to engines and so on. Jetcat always wanted to release a good, well tested product even if it meant delays.

Delays occured meanwhile the cost of running the turbine business went up, exchange rate...etc hence the retail price had to go up as well. I do not like it either, but there is not much we can do about it "IF" we want to fly our jets[8D].

Jetcat has announced their price increases in a fair, but painful for us, way and so far have provided a great product.

If winter is coming soon to your neck of the wood, may be you want to consider waiting till spring when the P200 may be in stock;) . Good luck!

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Greg,
I aggree that the dollar will not get stronger just because of recent events. I however can tell you that I agrree with you that as of right now they {Jetcat} are the King of the hill! But memories are short and just 3 years ago RAM was and they did the same things that Jetcat is doing now, making promises and not living up to them.Many of the people touting Jetcats were loyal RAM owners until they started getting the run around. So Jetcat and other manufactures take note of this and give us a auto start engine here in the US and deliver them at the price you quote and when you say you are going to. Also I will bet you a dollar to a donunt that when the dollar gets stronger the price woun't go down. Ever see the price of go down after they have been raised? Not me ever.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

I have only passed on all of the information I can. I am not sure what dealers are telling people, I really don't deal with dealers, I encourage people to go direct where I can help. THere have been others in close contact with me about the P-160, the P-70 and the P-200, and I have always done my best to give the best information I can to anyone that asks. I don't think I have ever been called a liar in my adult life.

I have sent private messages regarding the P-200 pricing. By the way we did start shipping P-200s in the fall, it is just they are no general availability yet due to the AMA approval (we have not had motors to send to them)

As someone said, we are trying to provide a niche market here, doing the best we can. With a euro going from .82 to to 1.24 (thats about a 40% margin hit)

Last time I looked the competitions autostart 40+ pound thrust motors were almost $5000 and $6197 (plus shipping from Europe).

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Matt,
I received your PM about locking in the price, How do I know that I will receive the motor as promised by you in Jan 2004. Would Jetcat or you be willing to pay a penalty for missing the delivery date? I have to at my company if I miss a date, We as US customers are with the exchange rate going up again while we wait and wait. The website says P-200's this fall. So I stepped up to the plate and ordered a P-200 and got a nice price for paying cash up front with my dealer. Now you are asking me to go direct to you to get one cut my local dealer out of a sale, pay a higher price than I was getting from my dealer and for me not to expect one until Jan2004 well that's not the fall and not fair to your dealer.
Please take this to heart, I am sure that I am not alone in this but most guys don't want to speak up and be on the outs with the in crowd, I am getting tired of showing that I am serious when I place and order by paying for my stuff and companies not doing what they say they are going to do when they are supposed to do it. This is supposed to be a fun hobby and I am not having any fun.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

This just shows everyone we need to vest in our selves and buy more US products. Let’s keep the dollar here and then the Europe market will learn how to level out the dollar ratio. Look Simjet is doing it with out a price increase so far. Maybe its time to move the Jetcat factory to Taiwan market, then they will never have to worry about price increases due to dollar variances. lol

Mr_Matt how does $100 hike in prices justify a almost 40% decline in us/ euro dollar. The numbers just don't match I would think it would be more of a price raise to compete in the market then.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

I find myself in total agreement with planecrazy, this problem with the factory is not confined to the US.

I prepaid for a 160 was promised it by a certain date, it arrived six months late! I posted a wheeze saying the factory had gone out of business because it was impossible to get any info from my numerous e mails and lots of failed telephone calls.

Just by chance one call was answered by Manfred Zipperer, I laid into him, told him his business practices needed reviewing! He actually agreed with me but, sadly things don't seem to have changed.

So lies are the same on both sides of the Atlantic. So JetCat we all appreciate what an excellent product you have but to cut out the wingeing tell us the truth!

BRG M

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

It is my understanding that AMT-USA is ready to ship the new AT-400.
This could be a good alternative.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

I tell you what, as of today I am OUT of the sales business! No more questions to me about when or how much on ANYTHING.

If you ask me this all starts with dealers taking money up front. I will definitely pass this onto the JetCat management. Who is your dealer?

All future sales question should be directed to Justin at JetCat. Better ask him about delivery penalties.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Hey Mr. Matt

Don't let any of this nonsense get too you. I think you have always done your absolute best to give prompt helpful answers to question and problems that arise regarding JetCat products. As a matter of fact, I beleieve you could be a great example of product support in the internet age. You've got hundreds of satisfied customers out there. Don't let a few guys get too you with the 'flame wars'.

BRG

Greg Anixter

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Matt,

You have been a great service to JetCat and myself over the last several years don't let the whiners get you down. This is a very good example of why the internet really is a terrible way to gather and diseminate information. You have people like this planecrazy guy that are complaining yet hide behind a screen name and won't disclose the information such as what dealer they have "supposedly" ordered these engines from. I think he would rather complain than try to and actually get an engine.

That being said some of the delivery times have been very slow but that is not a problem that JetCat USA has anything to do with. If JetCat Germany does not make and deliver the engines how in the hell is JetCat USA supposed to sell them? I ordered a P-80 some 5 years ago I wound up buying a RAM because the delivery time frame was too long a wait for me, boy was that a hard lesson to learn.


Planecrazy,

You say JetCat needs some competition why don't you step up to the plate!

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Hey Guys

Let's not kill the messenger here. Matt does a great job for JetCat USA. As far as delivery times are concerned, JetCat USA is providing the best information they can given the information that is provided to them. Don't you think that JC USA would like to be able to deliver when the order is placed? You bet they would. The inventory of turbines JC USA is up to the mercy of the the mother ship.

My suggestion is if someone is really that dissatisfied with JC USA, maybe you need to look elsewhere.

If you want a quaility product, it is worth the wait.

JMO

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Hi Greg (and Bob and David),

Thanks for the kind words. Don't worry about me, I have a thick skin.

Candidly, I would be upset too. I feel bad for these customers, and there is little I can do to help.

I must say I have little to do with the dealers. I don't know what they are selling, or what they are telling people. I just do my own thing here. I am not a JetCat employee, just a friend of Bob Wilcox and a fan of the product.

What I do have a pretty good handle on is status at the shop. I can go and check on a specific shipment, serial numbers, repairs, etc. I can make custom cables, get spare parts quick, etc. I can personally check test runs, power levels, etc. Of course with John there , there is less of a demand on me, but it is always good to help him cover the internet so he can keep the repair lines going fast.

What I cannot do is know what the dealers are doing.

So if you want all of the sales support (pre and post sales) that I am more than happy to provide here on the internet, then buy direct. I will track your status, just as I have for dozens on here. I will give you status on availability like I have for dozens on here. I will give you the straight shot on design issues, new products (if I can), etc.


I will still provide technical support for anyone, worldwide.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Matt:

There was no other engine manufacturer that even came close to providing the help to all of us that you guys did at SM this year....and Bob was in some serious pain the whole week....

And what the heck are these newbies whining about anyway....When I got one of the earliest P-120's delivered in the U.S. from GWM back in early 2000, guess what I paid for it....$3695.00.....and my P-80, with the old, non-Inconel combustor and propane wicks that lasted for maybe 150 flights, if you kept power below 75% most of the time, complete with that EMI Special 2.0 software cost me $3295.00.....and my first P-80 overhaul back in 2000 left me without an engine for 4 months....no spare parts......

For anyone that wanted a P-160, there have been several for sale on RCU and Ebay.....I picked one up NIB with all the upgrades for my KingCat for $3400.00 less than a month ago.....

I was a little concerned when JetCat USA decided to open up a dealer network....newbies don't remember all that crap with Tad, Nico and the European Black Market.....but I have never had any problems dealing with Don K., BV, the two I deal with, since they usually have product to deliver....

But making the Carbo Deprived, Professional Instigator a JetCat rep.....that's the same guy that is telling us that pulling Saddam out of a converted latrine, dressed in his best Ted Unibomber threads, sporting his new Iraqi Dreds is somehow going to make JetCats cheaper by de-valuing the Euro....that may be going too far..:D


Tom

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Matt,
Sorry if I offended you, but I was under the impression that you work for Jetcat USA. Since you really have nothing to do with them dropping the ball please except my aplogies if I have offended you.
David,
I choose not to disclose who I am since I have to fly with all of you at one time or another at events. As previuoly posted in my post number 14"Please take this to heart, I am sure that I am not alone in this but most guys don't want to speak up and be on the outs with the in crowd",you are now attacking me since I complained in public about a prodcuct.

RE: Will the lies ever stop!
 

Well I am sure I have PO'd most of the dealer network and am already hearing about it.

In all honesty, dealers talk to the shop more than I do probably, so you should pick a dealer that you can rely on for good info and support. I personally interact more with the dealers that are highly technical, like BVM with the airframe/turbine integrations, TamJets with his pipe expertise, Nat and Don from Miniature Turbine Sales & Service for their intimate knowledge of the ECUs and high altitude testing, etc.

That does not mean someone should not go to whoever they like to buy, it only means that I am not the guy to ride shotgun for dealers and whatever special deals they make. I can help with direct sales only cause I have keys to the shop and it is on my way home from work.

Very sorry to any dealers that I have offended.

And to planecrazy274614, I am truly sorry for your bad experience with JetCat, rest assured I will do whatever I can to help you when and if you end up making a JetCat purchase. No hard feelings on my part.