RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Well we are a pretty big manufacturer, and we did not even SEE the rules until after the November meeting....absolutely NO input from JetCat prior to presentation. This was an initiative put together by the concerned individual members.

As for the speed freaks, they got slowed down!! You used to be able to go as fast as you wanted....not any more. Others that were not getting anywhere close to 200 mph (like 95% of everybody) got relief and now can have any thrust to weight ratio they want and not have to put a speed limiter on like they had to in the old rules.

You can fly a turbine TODAY without a waiver, on a buddy cord! This is huge. This is not limited to training either, there may be a new class of turbine pilot that never get a waiver. You could go right on the flightline at Florida Jets and fly all day wothout a waiver! On your own plane or someone else's.


Can't see how anyone could not see these new rules as a benefit to MANY in the jet community.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Of course I forgot the new safety rules, mandatory idle on failsafe, transitioning to mandatory shutdown on failsafe delay.

Water based fire extinguishers are required not too.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Sorry Matt but I know the TRC had conversations with Bob W prior to the November proposal. I know that Steven Ellzey had discussions with him at Superman as well as other occasions.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Well Bob is getting (more) forgetful then. I was quoting him.

I only made this statement in response to a claim that the "manufacturers" are "getting their way". Once we saw the propsed rules we were very happy with them, but we in no way drove these rules. Maybe some other manufacturers did, I do not know. I think we were the only manufacturers at the meeting on Saturday, but I could be wrong.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

for us new to be turbine pilots, i have one almost ready to fly, and just waiting to obtain my waiver , when and where can we get all the rules pertaining to the turbines and field and saftey rules?

thanks

mark

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

http://www.jetpilots.org/AMAletter.htm

This is the version from November, the changes to this are that there is no maximum fuel limit. Sentence number 11.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

You are right Mr_Matt, Bob and yourself are the only individuals associated with turbine manufacturing present at the meeting.

I am glad you guys had a safe trip home.

FWIW, I would also like to add that the EC members at the meeting were all professionals. I now have complete respect for them after observing their dedications towards AMA at the EC meeting.

Regards

Ben

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Although possibly true, I don't think this is in the spirit of the rule.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

I knew they were working on new rules by Superman and was asked a few questions about crash statistics from Gordon but that is all I can remember. I did not have any direct input. If I did, there would only be one new rule, ALL JET PILOTS ARE REQUIRED TO USE JETCAT ENGINES. Darn-it David, I didn't see that anywhere in the new rules!

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Who asked you!

BTW I noticed that white slippery stuff that adhered to our shoes was gone by the time I got to the airport.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Ben, I totally agree with you! The EC, including Dave Brown were very professional. We are also quite fortunate to have jet modelers like Steve, Gordon, Kevin, Keith and Don presenting. Very well done!!!!

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Bob,

Read the fine print!!!! BTW answer your email!

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Hhhmmm!!!!. It sounds like somebody is jealous of Indiana snow. I specially ordered it for you guys. (lol)


....ghost rider .....out

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

[/quote]

:eek::eek:


we now have rules that are logical and enforcable. Todd
[/quote]


Logical?


I hate to sound like a grouch but I don't see the logic in penalizing a single turbine to less thrust than that allowed for a twin. If 50 pounds thrust is OK for a twin, then why why not for a single?

I also am not sure it was wise to eliminate the ground school requirement. Looks to me like you can now get a waiver without getting anywhere near a turbine, much less being taught anything about them - just flight demo a prop plane capable of 100mph or better to three witnesses. Though buddy boxing a turbine is now permitted, I don't see where it is required. Granted the newer auto start engines may be less difficult to use, but what about ramp safety, throttle lag, residual thrust, installation practices, etc?

I do see where the proposal requires that the first five flights performed by a new waiver holder be supervised. So what happens, we give the new guy five chances to not taxi into a bunch a parked jets and then pull his waiver if he doesn't figure it out?


Oh well. Just an observation.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Where were you when the new rules were being formulated?
It is easy to site back in the confines of our roof and scrutinize other people’s efforts.

How about thanking those JPO members that risked their life’s to travel to Muncie to make presentations to AMA. I knew that Kevin came from Texas, Gordon and group from Georgia, JETCAT gang from Ca. and Mr. President (JPO), from ?

As my father use to tell me, “Half a loaf of bread is better than nothing”

Regards

Ben

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Actually, I submitted written recommendations and had several discussions on this and other subjects directly with AMA and JPO, well before the EC had their first meeting on the subject. I also volunteered to get directly involved and submitted many editorial recommendations - not to mention the many commentaries I made right here on RCU. I don't know how much of it was found to be of value, but there you go.

The leaders at JPO know me personally and I'm sure they know I'm not trying to poo poo anybody's efforts on this. So I'll just keep exercising my right to observe, thank you.

;)

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Check out the JPO website. It has the rules that were passed in November. Just delete item 11.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

I stand corrected and applaud you for all your efforts also.

Regards

Ben

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Hey, no problem.

I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. I just thought I'd toss out an observation for others to consider - or set me straight on if I have misinterpreted what I read.

Hopefully this rule will not be set in stone and might be reviewed again in the future. At least for now it get's rid of that pesky speed limiter and the thrust to weight ratio nonsense, as well as addressing a few other problems.

Still REALLY BUGS ME about that single turbine thrust limitation though. [&o]

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

reid

think of it this way. does learning how to operate your engine need to be an AMA rule? this is the first time any of the rules have been removed. in the past it was always adding new rules and restrictions, never removing any...

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Not to speak for the TRC or EC, but I think you might want to look at it a different way. THe single turbine thrust has gone UP from 35 to 45 pounds. There is no penalty.

We are lucky to have the extra 5 pounds for a twin. They could have just said all planes are 45.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Pat,

The term "waiver" itself implies that in order to be "waived" of restrictions, the holder has demonstrated specific knowledge, skill, and responsibility (Reid's dictionary - not Websters). My point is that I don't think we need a turbine waiver system at all since gaining and demonstrating knowledge of turbines does not seem to be a requirement to obtain this so called "waiver". The AMA should just publish a set of rules for what they have accomplished.


Matt,

If 45 pounds is truly the new single turbine limit, then it is not so bad, though the logic that says a single should be limited to less than a multi still eludes me - and please, nobody bother spewing a bunch of engine out performance garbage on me. Been there - done that - no contest.

But Matt, I thought I read where the single turbine thrust limit was left at 35 pounds for political reasons.


Anyway, I'm just chatting for entertainement puposes.

Enjoy.

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Ok Reid, now it's time to turn off the computer and take your medicine. :)

RE: RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

LOL, Only February, getting to be an interesting year already! Thanks to all those that did the hard work, love the new rules. Wish I was edumacated enough to have helped!

Sean

RE: New Turbine Rules Pass
 

Crap, I forgot to take my pill!

I know. I really need to start dating again.

:eek: