Byron F16
 

I recently picked up a Byron F16 kit and am looking for some information. I hope you all can answer some questions for me. I have spent several hours searching the forums and the net but have not found many details.

The kit that I picked up is the old version. I would like to mount the aileron servos in the wings and put the elevator servos in the tail. I can not really find any details on this. Does anyone have a pic of the elevator servos and linkages?

I would like to convert this F16 to a tractor fan instead of pusher. I can only find questions about this but no details. The inlet duct should not be a problem as I have made several molds, fuses and ducts for electric ducted fans. I wonder which fan and engine?

Which retracts should I use in this model and where can I purchase them?

I was considering maybe a turbine conversion but I understand that there is nobody that makes a trubine conversion for this plane. Probably just as well as this will be my first glow ducted fan.

Thanks for any help.

Ted

Byron F16
 

I'll be watchin this thread as I'm doing the exact same thing. I haven't started ityet, it will be a winter project but I'm trying to find some ideas ahead of time. If I find anything of value I will be sure to pass it on.

byron f-16
 

I have started a mod to convert one to a tractor fan. I am using a spider jets (I believe) intake that fits quite well. I have installed the intake and added a formers and some fuse stiffeners. I have installed a modified Trim rotating nosegear. I replied to a thread started by rolln_thndr. check that out. As for the mains, I have a prettygood idea how to do it, just need access to a lathe and mill. THe Trim 3" mains with brakes are the correct size for this aircraft and are very reasonably priced. The nosegear and wheel/brake are available thru Great Northern in Canada. I am also using a Trim area ruled exhaust along with a Ramtec fan and Trim pipe. As for the mod to put servos in the tail there is a manual available on usrjc website. The spelling may not be right on the site. I have seen it called out in this forum before... I traced around formers before I installed them. Be advised this fuse is NOT symmetrical. There is a left and a right side to the formers. Any questions contact me at [email protected].

Jeff Stultz

Byron F16
 

I just received my kit last week and I am just starting to research the whole project. I still haven't heard back from Jim Fox so I may have to give Spider Jets a call. Did you get the formers from them as well?

Is this like a conversion kit or are you engineering it as you go (besides the gear)? If so, what is a cost estimate?

mods
 

From everything I have read on this subject they used to sell a conversion kit for this but stopped producing it when they came out with there own F16. From what I understand there last conversion kit was sold somtime in March or April of this year. I have not called them to confirm this though.

The tractor conversion should not be that big of a deal. I just finished an inlet duct plug for a MiniFan480 EDF F16. All I should have to do is make some custom formers to mount the fan unit. Layup an inlet duct. Patch the big hole in the bottom and cut a hatch for access in the top. The hardest part would be making the inlet duct and the new formers. A little 3D CAD and some foam and voila. New inlet duct/thrust tube plugs.

I was looking at the Hurricane fan units for this project but am not sure. Maybe the 6" hurricane unit but then I may run into trouble keeping the inlet area ruled. I don't know what the fan swept area is for this unit.

I don't think I have access to a lathe and mill for the retracts though. I downloaded that manual for the Byron F16. It has the elevator servo installation. The ailerons should be no problem to fit the servos into the wings.

Thanks Ted

Byron F16
 

If this is your first ducted fan I recommend you keep it simple and set it up with a byron fan. It will take off a little quicker which will help to keep it in close and easier to trim it out. The 16 is a great trainer for ducted fan and it's easy to install the engine and retracts. I recommend a short weston pipe instead of the byron pipe that needs an offset to get it to fit. If you go the tractor version and I've cut the intake out of foam and may still have the templates for the formers, you need to buy yellow or bvm scale gear that will run you $700 plus or machine your own. It's also a larger jet than the yellow or bvm and requires some nose weight when you put the elevator servos in the tail and it comes out heavier. I really think it would take some good jet wheels and an asphalt runway to get it up to speed for a safe take off with a 5 inch fan. I looked into this a year ago and found some posts on it but no one seemed to jump up and down with enthusiasm after doing so. Put the servos in the wing and the elevator servos in the tail which ever way you go.

Byron F16
 

Did you move the fan unit ahead or did you mount it in the same position as the Byron unit? The inlet from Jim Fox placed the face of the fan quite aways ahead of where the Byron fan was for the very reason of balancing. The weight (and different direction) of the pipe was taken into consideration as well. Thought what I read never went into any detail about balancing (that I can remember). It was also mentioned that is was a good grass field setup. Like I said though, this is just from what i read in the article from RCJI. I'll find out the month/year the article was in and maybe you'll be able to check it out (it was from about '96 and had a Yellow Aircraft F-18 on the cover).

This will not be my first DF project but it will be my second or third.

Byron F16
 

My set up was based off of the yellow aircraft F-16. The front mounting holes on the fan unit are about 3 inches ahead of the byron fan unit housing. Balancing is the reason I moved it forward. With retracts though, this forces you to put saddle tanks behind the fan unit(very tight fit) or using rectangle tanks and mounting two 12 ounce(that seemed to be the largest I could get to fit) above the intake ducting and a small header tank off to one side. This makes for a lot of fuel tubing. I used the former for the byron because it has the wing sleeves on it. I just cut notches in it for a pair of rails. The front former holds the rails but also needs to be notched for the retracts if you use them. Mine is set up for now with the fixed gear to see if it will have better performance than my f-16 with a byron set up.

fan
 

Only 3" really? I figured it wouls be a little more foreward than that. I guess that is the cg though so that makes sense.

It will be my first "glow" ducted fan. I think I can handle it. :)

thanks Ted

Byron F16
 

3 inches is where the front set of bolt holes are away from the byron former using the ramtec fan. I don't know if the fan brackets on a dynamax fan are comparable to the ramtec. My design is not tried and true either. Because I have rails that are about 4-5 inches long I can slide the fan unit fore and aft. I put in batteries, servos etc. to try to get an idea on balance without adding nose or tail weight. I don't think the location of the fan unit for performance is important, but for balance I think it is.

fans
 

I think the general rule of thumb is a 5% loss of effiency for every length of inlet duct equal to the fan diameter. Up to a point I am sure. I dought that it is actually a linear scale. That assumes a smooth constant area duct with transitions of less than 5 degrees.

I sent an email to Hurricane Jets asking about their fan units and impellors but have not gotten a reply from them yet.

Ted

Hurricane Fan
 

Well the phone number on the Hurricane web site is not in service. I do not seem to be getting any replies to my emails to them either. I wonder if they are still in business? It looks like I would not have enough inlet area for the 6" fan anyway.

I know that the Byron fan is a high thrust/low velocity fan. Which tractor fan would be best for this application.

Thanks Ted

Jim Fox
 

I have received a reply from Jim Fox about his inlet. He does have the inlets but no longer has the former templates. My buddy has a set so I'll get some copied and have a look at tthe whole situation.

He was asking 32 pounds for it, what is the Spider Jets inlet worth?

Byron F16
 

I talked to top gun aircraft and they're very upset with hurricane fans. Had some on backorder now for months. I wanted to buy some replacement blades for a broken fan but the number was out of service. It's too bad because the fans are definitely faster and have lower vibration. I hope someone picks up the ball and runs with it. The byron fan is 15-20 years old. Jim

Byron F-16
 

I have a set of templates and a rudimentary plan for putting a Ramtec or Dynamax in the Byron F-16. I was selling a complete conversion kit for it. However I do not have the molds any longer and that is the reason I stopped producing the kits. I do have the a plan and templates for the formers Forget the scale type landing gear and go with Sprigairs with 3/16 struts. Also you can still use the Byron setup for the nose gear and let is hang out on the duct as it will not detract from its performance. If I can scrounge up the templates and plan pack a $20 bill will get them to you.
Hal Peters
561-793-2548

PS have pictures of my prototype also

Re: Byron F-16
 

I may drop you line. Would be nice to see 2 perspectives for the same setup.

How were the flight characteristics with the conversion vs the Byron setup? Any loss/gain in performance?

Byron F16
 

It flew a bit faster and had more vertical. The main difference was the noise as the Byroblaster is a db monster. Landings requires a bit more finesse.

Byron F16
 

I would be interested in some pictures. Can you post them here or email them to me? [email protected]

Thanks Ted

fan
 

so which fan would fly it better on an OS91? Ramtec or Dynamax?

Thanks Ted

fan units
 

Nobody has a preferance or opinion reguarding Ramtec versus Dynamax fan units for this application?

Thanks Ted

Byron F16
 

I've owned two of these Byron F16's. Do yourself a favor. Since it's your first DF, take Jimmy's advice, and fly it with a Byron fan. If you want a Dynamax plane, look for a Yellow Aircraft F16 instead.
It's really too big an airframe for the Dynamax, and the performace difference is not really an improvement...it's a tradeoff. You lose the quick takeoffs from grass or pavement in exchange for a slightly greater top speed.
There is virtually no difference between Dynamax and Ramtech, that's why nobody replied. They are essentially interchangeable.

Byron F16
 

My prototype had a Ramtec/OS 91 combo and worked very well

Re: fan
 

Go with the Ramtec if using a OS91 and leave the Dynamax units for 65, 77 size engines. The Ramtec will load the 91 better where the Dynamax units tend to work them harder. Either unit is a good one, just one suits the OS91 a little better.

Ramtec has fewer blades and a little more pitch than Dynamax.

Byron F16
 

Century Jet list a set of retracts for the Byron 16 I'M sure there the same geometry as using a set of Spring airs but how do they handle the angle of the axle with there oleo struts? anyone ever seen them?

Byron F16
 

I have a range of jets for sale which are f16 mig15 turbine trainer hawk and a folland gnat all for use with either turbine or ducted fan any details needed dont hesitate to contact me