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New Guy Needs HELP!
I ran up my Ram 1000 with auto start yesterday, I primed as recommended followed the startup as per the instructions. Well any way The engine began its start up procedure after I hit the run button and nothing you can here the engine spool up and that was about it. So I checked my propane in the CO2 it was empty. I then connected my propane bottle to the fill on the CO2 canister and opened it 1/4 turn during the start up procedure. Rechecked my fuel conections and everything else. This time the engine came to life during the ramping stage
My next problem was there was an ungodly amount of fuel dripping from the turbine. I checked my fuel pump pressure and conection to the turbine everything was ok and tight so I thought maybe I primed it to much. I then inverted the engine and drained what Little fuel was in there. I then ran the start up procedures again with out priming the engine came to life and once again the dripping began. I shut it down and checked everything again it all looked Ok I ran the start up again and in the ramping portion of the start you can here the propane ignite and just when I thought it was going to go, it Flamed out. So my question is how do you fill the on board CO2 canister with enough propane to give you one start and my next question is Why is it dripping all this fuel? Thank you if I failed to mention something crucial let me know I just listed it as it occured. |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
One of my rams leaked fuel on my kangaroo, it was a small leak and Carlos' answer based on what he saw, was fly the heck out of it, it's not going to hurt anything.
So if all else is working, don't worry about the leak. If there are other problems, get a proffesional's help. I flew that engine with the leak at least 75 times before I sold it. |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Cessnapilot,
Try using a JetCat propane tank instead of the Ram steel tank. The JetCat tank holds a great deal more propane than the Ram, this might let the engine ramp better for start up. My Ram 750P started with no problems with the larger tank. Regards, Ken F............... |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
To fill the on-board tank, first make sure you hold the supply roughly straight up, go ahead and fill the tank once and then dump it back out by removing the check valve festo, then quickly put the festo back on and refill it again. You will notice that it will take a lot more the second time. What is happening is when you fill it the first time you have a lot of warm air in the tank so most of the powermax vaporizes as soon it goes in and you get little of it. When you dump what little you put in the first time, the tank gets cold and most of the air gets displaced. When the tank is cold the powermax will remain a liquid and you get more in on the second shot. The tank holds plenty, don't worry with a bigger one. Make sure you let the tank warm back up before you start the engine, or warm it with your hand. You need the powermax warmed back up so that you have good pressure.
As to the fuel leak, where is the fuel coming from, the tail pipe, the inlet, or from the seam between the cowl and the can? Steven |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
ORIGINAL: Ken F. Cessnapilot, Try using a JetCat propane tank instead of the Ram steel tank. The JetCat tank holds a great deal more propane than the Ram, this might let the engine ramp better for start up. My Ram 750P started with no problems with the larger tank. Regards, Ken F............... I have to agree with this....My FTE T-500 would do the same with the small size of the CO2 bottle. It would spool up and while in the transition stage from Propane to Ramp up with Jet-A the engine would hang briefly and die. Charge the propane bottle again and it would complete the start on the second try. A trick that another turbine flier showed me was to prime the propane bottle again during the start sequence but be careful while doing it. To do this safely you'll need a trigger type vavle on your propane fuel source. I did and it worked, but felt uncomfortable about doing it. So I figured that if the PST-600R and the JetCat turbines come with the bigger bottles there's a reason for it. So I switched and it worked. The engine starts on the first try everytime. The thing to realize is that you still will have some gas in the propane bottle while your flying your jet. A potential problem and fuel source for a fire as stated in the owners manual that came with my engine.. Cheers, |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
The engine has some festo connectors under the front cover remove the screws and make sure the Fuel and lubrication line are inserted properly. While it might be fine to fly with a small leak on a Roo with an opne installation, if you have an enclosed installation you are just asking for a fire to happen
Turbulence |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Hi cessnapilot
Are you using Propane or Powermax? If you using propane, I'd switch to powermax and as others have suggested, the aluminum gas canister. You can get more Powermax in the canister than you can propane and it should last long enough to get you hrough the start sequence. Ed |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Ralph's right. The Leak may also be caused bu a tube that isn't cut properly. For the Festo fittings to work well, the tubing has to be cut square. If it's cut at an angle, it more prone to leaking. Ed ORIGINAL: Turbulence The engine has some festo connectors under the front cover remove the screws and make sure the Fuel and lubrication line are inserted properly. While it might be fine to fly with a small leak on a Roo with an opne installation, if you have an enclosed installation you are just asking for a fire to happen Turbulence |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Thank you all for all the great advice. I checked the fittings under the cover and there was one line that was cut at an angle and not sealing properly. I cut the line square and presto the leak has vanished. I also tried the powermak instead of the propane and I am still haveing the same problem. I also went to jet cats web site to order the larger onboard propane tank, and I could not find it anywhere on there web site. If you guys have a link that would be wonderfull.
I thought that you could adjust the amount of power being produced from the engine like going from 16lbs. to 20lbs. or vise versa. Do you do this by setting the RPM values or is there another way if any. I am not even sure if this is possible it was just something that I heard. The manual that I am useing does not really put it inot black and white for me, I do not have the originall Ram 1000 manual so I am useing Frank Tiano's manual from his web site for the FTE 750. I was told that this is the same engine but with a diffrent name. One last final question for now. What would be a good airframe for this beast. I have been looking at the yellow aircraft sting ray or the jet hangar hobbies f-4. Or am I barking up the wrong tree. I also looked at the PCM DV8R and the Facet but I think that if I am going to spend $400-$500 on one of those stick built airplanes I would much rather spend the extra bit to get an Epoxy Glass Fuse and sheeted wings. It just sounds like better logic to me. Thank you |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
ORIGINAL: cessnapilot Thank you all for all the great advice. I checked the fittings under the cover and there was one line that was cut at an angle and not sealing properly. I cut the line square and presto the leak has vanished. I also tried the powermak instead of the propane and I am still haveing the same problem. I also went to jet cats web site to order the larger onboard propane tank, and I could not find it anywhere on there web site. If you guys have a link that would be wonderfull. I thought that you could adjust the amount of power being produced from the engine like going from 16lbs. to 20lbs. or vise versa. Do you do this by setting the RPM values or is there another way if any. I am not even sure if this is possible it was just something that I heard. The manual that I am useing does not really put it inot black and white for me, I do not have the originall Ram 1000 manual so I am useing Frank Tiano's manual from his web site for the FTE 750. I was told that this is the same engine but with a diffrent name. One last final question for now. What would be a good airframe for this beast. I have been looking at the yellow aircraft sting ray or the jet hangar hobbies f-4. Or am I barking up the wrong tree. I also looked at the PCM DV8R and the Facet but I think that if I am going to spend $400-$500 on one of those stick built airplanes I would much rather spend the extra bit to get an Epoxy Glass Fuse and sheeted wings. It just sounds like better logic to me. Thank you I bought mine from BVM Jets for $12.95. It's sort of burried in their site but I dug into their website enough to get a link that will get you close: http://www.bvmjets.com/turbine/jetcat_parts.htm . Scroll down that page about 3/4 of the way and you'll find the bottle. Part # JCA1015 . It's called a Starting Gas Tank. Like I stated in my earlier post I got one of these and it resolved my problem. Been using the Powermax Propane/Butane gas mixture as recommended in my owners manual. I know there are two mixture ratios currently being sold so check your manual to be sure. Hope this helps... Cheers, |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Thanks tschuy
I was looking for a larger version CO2 canister. That is the ticket I just placed my order for it. Thank you |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
ORIGINAL: tschuy The thing to realize is that you still will have some gas in the propane bottle while your flying your jet. A potential problem and fuel source for a fire as stated in the owners manual that came with my engine.. |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
ORIGINAL: mr_matt ORIGINAL: tschuy The thing to realize is that you still will have some gas in the propane bottle while your flying your jet. A potential problem and fuel source for a fire as stated in the owners manual that came with my engine.. Cheers, |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Instead of buying a gas bottle from Jet Cat or BVM I used the smallest retract air bottle I had. It appears to be about the same size as the Jet Cat bottle (1 1/4" dia. X 4" long) and is good for 4-5 starts on my Ram 500.
Joe |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Cessnapilot
I had the same startup problems with the gas on my 500. I eventually threw away the on board gas tank and connected the powermax can to the gas line with a festo non return valve. Open the gas can valve before initiating the start sequence and the solenoid will automatically shut off the gas when the fuel has ramped up. Turn off the gas valve on the can and disconnect the festo. This works every time. You should be able to turn down the thrust by reducing the maximum rpm on the GSU there should be a thrust/ rpm table with the instructions. Hope this helps. John Agnew |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
The RAM 1000 is WAY too big for a Stingray, I am powering mine with a PST J600R and it is a missle. The engine would be way too heavy, your flights would be about 4 minutes and you would have to put a cinder block in the nose to balance her out, not to mention, it would be a pain to land with extra idle thrust. Have you looked at the Skymaster line up?, I have two buddies here with the F-15/RAM 1000 combo and love em.
Chris |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
If you can not get started on the CO2 size canister some thing is wrong, there is enough gas in there to start is twice under good conditions. If you have filled it correctly, if there are no leaks, if you have warmed it up, and you are using it all up before you get started the settings are wrong. Adding a bigger bottle may just allow you to over temp the engine longer. I have two 1000s, two 500s and one FTE 750, they do not need a bigger bottle to get one start. I even start my JetCat P120 on a CO2 bottle.
Look at your start gas setting, assuming you have the CO2C software version, it should be in the 40-50 range. If the number is much lower, then this may be you problem. You can also tell by the sound, if it sound like a pretty good rush when the gas lights then there may be to much. If you barely hear it light and it just goes away in a few seconds, then there is to little. Raising the value of the start gas setting reduces the flow. The easy way to remember which way to adjust it once it is set right is to follow the direction of the temperture of the day. If it is cold out and you are having trouble starting, lower the setting, if it get hotter out side you can probably raise the setting, allthough you probably will not be having a start problem under those conditions. Take some time and make sure the setting are right, then if you want a bigger bottle so you can get multiple starts on a fill, go for it. Steven ORIGINAL: cessnapilot Thanks tschuy I was looking for a larger version CO2 canister. That is the ticket I just placed my order for it. Thank you |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
I have an airframe for you if you are interested. Drop me a PM and we will talk.
Tommy |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
Let me tell you a little story. My RAM 500 was working fine, did two flights then went to go for the third and final time of the day, got my new can of Powermax and No start, filled it up again, nothing. Squeezed the trigger into the air a couple of times and it would smell like gas, but I would not see a large burst so I figured it was the triger valve. threw it on the trash and ordered two more from BVM, filled up the plane again and nothing. went to BIG 5 for some basketball stuff and found 5 cans of Powermax, so I bought them all, just for kicks I tried a new Can of powermax and BAM problem solved. End of Story
Now it does not happen too often, but you might also have a bad can of Proane (in my case, powermax) I checked my trash can, trigger valve was already gone. I had also tried one of those Jet Cat style nipples and nothing would come out out of the can. Darn had I known, anyway if your settings are right, try that too before you go Crazy Turbulence |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
ORIGINAL: Turbulence Let me tell you a little story. My RAM 500 was working fine, did two flights then went to go for the third and final time of the day, got my new can of Powermax and No start, filled it up again, nothing. Squeezed the trigger into the air a couple of times and it would smell like gas, but I would not see a large burst so I figured it was the triger valve. threw it on the trash and ordered two more from BVM, filled up the plane again and nothing. went to BIG 5 for some basketball stuff and found 5 cans of Powermax, so I bought them all, just for kicks I tried a new Can of powermax and BAM problem solved. End of Story Now it does not happen too often, but you might also have a bad can of Proane (in my case, powermax) I checked my trash can, trigger valve was already gone. I had also tried one of those Jet Cat style nipples and nothing would come out out of the can. Darn had I known, anyway if your settings are right, try that too before you go Crazy Turbulence When this happens you are still able to get gas out of it, and unless you have a clear line going to your onboard tank (so you can see the liquid and bubbles moving) you will not notice anything abnormal when filling your tank, but since there is no liquid in the onboard tank there will not be enough gas in the plane to get the engine started. If you do find that a Powermax clunk has come off the can is still useable, but now you will just have to remember to turn the can upside down when filling the airplane. |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
ORIGINAL: Kevin_W The Powermax cans have a clunk inside them which is why you are able to get liquid fuel from out of them with the can in the upright position. I have had several cans of Powermax that have had the clunk line come loose inside the can. "aught and 3 is 3, aught and 4 is 4" |
RE: New Guy Needs HELP!
I had that happen (no clunk) to a powermax can. You can tell during filling that there is no liquid going in but yet the can feels full. I ended up using it upside down to get the liquid out till it was empty, no reason to throw it away.
V.. |
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