British So, what is it
 

Did this fly and whats the history on it?

Thank you

RE: Canadian So, what is it
 

Yes it did fly, RAF early 60's from what I can recall it was a ROCKET ship, lost out to the F111. I know our English bros will respond with more data
Semper Fi joe

RE: Canadian So, what is it
 

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...2/history.html

RE: Canadian So, what is it
 

Its a TSR2 Strike Reconnaisance aircraft powered by two Olympus engines and only one ever flew before our labour government scrapped it as an economy measure. At least the engines went into Concorde and the Concorde programme survived thanks to the French. By all accounts from Jimmy Dell and Bee Beaumont, the only test pilots to fly it it would have knocked spots of any other bomber, capable of almost Mach 1 at 50 feet at night in bad weather using terrain following radar and Mach 2 at altitude. I had hoped to fly it had it come into RAF service, as was expected until Wilson wielded the axe, we got Phantoms and Buccaneers instead and Canberras stayed in service longer. And we STILL dont know just who ordered the breakup of all the airframes (exept two) and the jigs, everyone denies responsibilty ! TSR2 was one of the greatest and most disgusting tragedies in British aviation.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

RE: Canadian So, what is it
 

Read the book if you want to know some more heartbreaking details..Those responsible for this tragedy should have been formally executed. They were probably given a peerage.

http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/ca...ducts_id=45795

Dave.

RE: Canadian So, what is it
 

David, The TSR seems to have had a very interesting history.... reminds me of another awesome cold war aircraft which had a similar fate as the TSR. The TSR2 seems to closely parallel the Canadian Arrows demise with a strikingly similar ramifications all for dumbfounded political reasons also, The Arrows axing along with countless jobs at AVro Canada back in the 50's is still regarded as a bone of contention today among many Canadians old enough to still remember. Irony being that after the Arrows axing many of the designers and engineers were hired to work for NASA and British aerospace and worked on the Concorde!
I reckon the world be a much, much better place with less self righteous politicians eh!!! ;)

RE: Canadian So, what is it
 

Hi
Any British kid whose father was an aviation nut ( that includes mine) was told to NEVER forget. It was the tradgedy that practically killed the UK avaition industry. By all accounts the TSR2 would have been the dogs do das even by modern standards. And just to put the cat among the pidgeons the rumour was that if it had been fully developed and full filled its earlier promise it would have killed all F111 sales world wide. Hence the UK government were encouraged to kill the program and kill it good. Drawings Jigs the works destroyed.

Mike

RE: British So, what is it
 

Yup - it's the TSR2 allright. My late father worked on some of the design aspects of this marvellous aircraft, and had a few choice words to say about the government when the project was killed.

RE: British So, what is it
 

Hi
I always wondered what a Jet powered model of it would be like. The only flying model I have ever seen was a ducted fan version and it looked very twitchy in roll and pitch. Whether a bigger plane would help cure that i dont know.

Interesting to try

Mike

RE: British So, what is it
 

Hi Mike,

Just got a load on doccumentation on the TSR2 2 weeks ago. Now I have the bug for a large version of this.

Question time: Do I stay with the big Sepecat Jaguar GR-1 or do I go for a TSR2 :D

;)

RE: British So, what is it
 

Hi Dave
If you are bilding a jaguar and you need info let me no as i am working on the jaguar GR 4 and T 2 at ST ATHAN

MICK

RE: British So, what is it
 

Dave,

These might help you make your mind up...!

Cheers,

Dick
England

RE: British So, what is it
 

Hi Gordon:
Sorry to hear that , what a gorgeous plane, I love it

RE: British So, what is it
 

The Brits sure know how to design georgeous landing gears. Wish the F-111 had something a little bit more attractive, although it did the hell of a job.

RE: British So, what is it
 

The landing gear is what put me off building a large scale TSR2, the airframe would be quite simple even if the wing area is rather small. Had an all moving stab. AND fin. but the gear is a nightmare. It also gave some horrendous problems during test flying of the fullsize and I have some private video taken of TSR2 landings when the gear almost vibrated, shimmied, itself to destruction.
If someone could design and build a scale gear the rest would be easy, even thought the colour scheme is rather limied, anti-flash white but in service it would have worn camouflage.

Totally agree with what everyone says about the TSR2 axeing. I was in the RAF at the time and I have never before or since seen such anger amongst my colleagues. Not many people know that the Australians were also interested in it and had they bought it instead of the F111 (still in service) the programme might just have survived

Remarkable similarity between the Arrow and the TSR2 temination and the effect on Canadaian and British aircraft design and manufacture.

The whole damn thing still makes my blood boil !

Regards,

David Gladwin.

RE: British So, what is it
 

David,

DD video do a superb 50 minute long video telling the story of the TSR 2 including a lot of footage of Bee giving the backstage story and also film of the undercarriage problems you mention (to see that spindly undercarriage flex when Don Knight didn't get it quite right on one landing is quite scary!). For anybody interested in getting the story from the horses mouth, this is a good source. Seach Google for DD Video and the tape is called 'TSR 2, The Untold Story' (1995).

Cheers,

Dick
England

PS, my father got lucky and saw the TSR 2 flying at Boscombe when he was driving past in his lorry...he always mentioned what an impressive sight it was! The one in the pictures I posted is at Cosford now...along with a great deal of our aviation heritage...well worth setting a day aside to visit. See you in July.

RE: British So, what is it
 

Hi Dave,

Well now that you mention that with the F-111's in OZ. Our company has been asked to keep the test equipment going for them as it is failing and the company who made it are no longer in existance. The main test guy from Australia was over 4 weeks ago at the factory and they are in the sh1t for sure. Of course the Australian versions are extensivly modified from the USA versions with more electronics aboard than was originally intended.






And there are some . . . Note the writers coments 'as it might appeared'

http://homepage.eircom.net/~skycam/TSR2-1.jpg

RE: British So, what is it
 

A small bit of CNC work there. Nice pics, great plane.

Thanks Dick

RE: British So, what is it
 

Dick Dave, Yes indeed I have read all of the books on it (best I think is TSR2 Phoenix or Folly by Barnett-Jones) and got the video and drooled at the one at Duxford but those profiles of it in camo REALLY pulled at the heartstrings TSR2 was going to be the ultimate manned bomber. Can you imagine, Mach .95 at 100 feet at night in the weather with the autopilot taking its feeds from INS and terrain following radar, it would have been and probably still would be untouchable, even the Lightning would not have been able to get near it for practice PIs ....and the whole thing controlled by a computer with about the same power as a decent digital camera, frightening but at least if anything had gone wrong it would all have been over in a flash, quite literally !

Living in Australia I have heard a lot about the problems of keeping the F111 in service, I guess the test equipment problem is just another hurdle they will have to overcome but sooner or later they will throw in the towel. Anyway the Australian gov. has enough money to buy new aircraft, (but what) they have just bought four C17s for cash, even the RAF had to lease theirs !

Dick, really looking forward to ABB in july, many thanks.

Best regards,

David.

PS Any volunteers to do the landing gear say 1/6th scale @ fully rotating just like the fullsize but without the shimmy problem !

RE: British So, what is it
 

Did anybody see the programme on the History Channel about the SR53 ? It was a dual propulsion (rocket & turbine) jet that was destined to become the Nato interceptor. Got shelved because NATO & Germany were somehow convinced (Lockheed paid millions in bribes) that the inferior Starfighter would do a better job. See the link at the bottom.

http://www.militaryimages.net/photop...a/526/sr53.jpg

http://www.militaryimages.net/photop...cat/all/page/1

RE: British So, what is it
 

I recall seeing the programme but I don't think it was the SR53...wasn't it another duel propulsion job that only ever reached the mock-up stage? As you said, Lockheed's 'persuasion' of the German government to buy F-104s put the nail in the coffin. Here's a picture of the SR 53 I took at RIAT in 2003 - I 'did' the whole aeroplane ( a relatively small machine) so if anybody ever gets serious about building one, let me know and I'll get you the pics.

Cheers,

Dick
England

RE: British So, what is it
 

The SR53 was the test bed for the SR117

RE: British So, what is it
 

Actually SR P177.
5 were almost ready to fly when the project was cancelled in 1957

heres another one that got away in 1957

RE: British So, what is it
 

Hi
To really put the cat among the pidgeons I remember a quote from an USAF pilot turned author who once described the F111 as a fine aircraft as long as the USA were fighting Canada.

The justification for killing the program was unbelievable. That we had no requirement for expensive manned aircraft as everything would be done by Pilotless planes. I wonder what sci fi writer in the MoD dreamt that report up. Forty years on and we are only just starting to make such technology workable.

Mike

RE: British So, what is it
 

I'm cecnivnod that I am dsyleixc (sic). 117 // 177