LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

I am taking a sample of how you guys are setting up for your landings and what experiences you have had.I'm in a situation where I'll have two perfect [grease jobs] and the next landing will be bounce city with all the scapes and bent gear.Whats the secret to a liitle bit of consistancy? Downwind, base,final, flaps, wind , power setting, the whole nine yards....... Thanks , Doug

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

It might be helpful if you stated what airframe you are flying.

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Practice ,practice, practice and practice some more. I'm no expert on the subject but each jet I fly seems to have a bit difference mostly inthe landing speed. I imagine a box at the approach end of the runway and If for some reason I'm not in it abort and try again.The box is approx. the width of the runway tall.This way I can control the landing speed with the flair and not be so high off the runway (usually 5 to 10 feet)that stalling might become an issue. Hold the jet off as long as it's flying confortably and It will settle in hopelfully befor the runway runs out.:eek:I also get that wakup call that usually mean straighting a main gear occasionally. Keep telling myself It's not a perfect world. Happens to everybody! keep flying and apprecaite the good landings,Scott

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Doug,

What Scott said jibes quite well with what David Shulman told me - to imaging flying under a limbo pole at the approach end of the runway. Fly under that and then begin the flare. Hold it off in the flare until it stops flying and settles in.

What I've notice for me is that I tend to get into trouble when I go into a "spectator mode" where I'm more watching what the plane is doing (and its usually not doing what I would like) than I am flying it. My best landings are when I keep flying the plane and fighting for the perfect lineup and flare right until its completely stopped. Try to never "settle" for less than perfect lineup, perfect nose up attitude, and perfect very small vertical velocity at touchdown.

I have noticed that some full scale pilots, my father (a retired Navy/airline pilot) included, seem to continuously "stir" that stick at little bit during landings. I think its a lot like a tennis player shuffling their feet while waiting for a serve. If you're moving just a little bit, its easier to react than if you're standing completely still.

Remember, almost anyone can *fly* a jet, its really all about the landing. Watch the last 15 seconds of a flight and there's where you'll see who really is at the top of the game. Myself, being a mear mortal, have to settle for pretty good landings most of the time, but occasionally I have to do a bit of gear repair...

Bob

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

I guess landings really depend on the jet you are flying. Some airframes just sit in the runway without needing to much input, just throttle managment. Some others require a lot of pilot input just until they touch ground. I guess if you tell us what jet you ar looking for we can help a bit more.
For me in general, one of the most important things is speed and thrust. If you get this you will do good most of the times. I guess the idea is to gain or loose altitude by throttle management... Also coming in with power is much better than gliding in, in the event you need to go around.
Also getting to know your model and all the good and bad habits it has, will help you out a lot.

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Gentlemen, I was flying a JHH A-4 before installing the equipment in the Savex L-39. The A-4 was easier to land. These are both small aircraft with the A-4 bleeding off speed a little better probably because of the modified delta wing. Both had flaps at about 45 degree landing configuration. On the good landings I've had I actually had full flap in and chopped the throttle on my downwind leg, kept the nose down and speed up while pointing the plane at the end of the runway after turning base.Once down to about 3-5 feet high I would let it run till speed bled off enough so I could pull the nose up and flair. It's just hard to duplicate for some reason and a good portion of it is "mental". That spectator thing you were talking about! Will practice some more tomorrow...... DB

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

seems like u need an avistar they are only $300 it also comes with the controlly thingy:D

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

A good aproach will help with a good landing, a bad approach, go around. Joe C

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

DB,
What you described is a dive in to land, and your landings will be
different each time. Learn to turn base nose high or flat to bleed off
speed, on final pitch the nose up slightly and wait, be paitiant (sp), until
the plane slows and start to sink, use throttle to adjust your sink rate
to the begining of the runway, add a little power to flatten out before
touch down, flare, and wait for the mains to kiss the runway. If you
set up each time this way, you will look like a pro.

Johnny

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

"For me in general, one of the most important things is speed and thrust. If you get this you will do good most of the times. I guess the idea is to gain or loose altitude by throttle management... Also coming in with power is much better than gliding in, in the event you need to go around."

As he says!!

Throttle for controlling altitide - elevator for controlling speed when landing. I used to struggle with landings and was told to use this method which works for me.

Practise high up and a bit away from you so you can see what the plane is doing!!

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

I get more consistent landings when I fly a gear pass up the centerline @ 30 or 40 feet altitude and a slow approach speed. Then add power (with some planes it can be a whole fistfull of power needed to fly the approach) and fly the approach, you need to add power because you are already at the correct slowish speed. If I zip around / reduce power and enter the pattern without that pass to get the speed right inevitably 1/2 the time or more I'm too high or too fast or too slow on final :D.

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Do you re-trim the elevators after slowing to approach speed? Anyone?

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Yes. It depends on what airplane. I use four clicks of digital trim on some models, while others I use the speedbrake switch on my F9C TX to act as a "landing switch" where a pre programmed amount of landing trim is set. Afterward, I still end up holding back elevator to complete my final speed reduction. On a go around I reduce the back stick to neutral for an approach speed climbout. I know some though who trim completely for approach speed in their technique. I judge the speed of the airplane based on the body angle of the fuse and the relative descent rate, and use power for descent rate primarily (subtle use of elevator for sink rate too depending on the situation) on the base and final laegs of the approach.

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Thanks
Very helpful.
Marvin

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Ok,

Here's my 2 pennys,

Mdurand is a great pilot, watch his vids and listen to his bug on approach. He is a good guy and a great pilot.

FACT: Different airplanes will fly differently.

How can I know this? I'm a newb jet jock and have only flown 2 of my jets??!!!

Well, the two that I have flown are an A-10x and a SM F-15.
The A-10x, for me, does the best just as previously stated. I chop the throttle just before I start my crosswind approach. Yeah, this thing is called a box. God I love you guys. I'm about a runway high at this point as well. I let this A-10x settle into a nice decent pattern WITHOUT any throttle. ALL. THE. WAY. DOWN. Why? Because I find the she has no tip stall tendancies and loves to flare just like a prop plane on landing. I have had perfect landings on this airplane everytime I've flown her. I did catch a huge thermal once about 2 feet over the runway and lost my mains when she came down. But that sort of thing is our RC equvalent to a micro burst!:) But I have practiced and practiced and now have 30 landings on my A-10x.

Now to a scale bird that many consider a trainer. The f-15. Mine is of the skymasters variety and is very light for large scale jet. (Well at least compared to my f-18:D) I have landed her twice and have had to work on the landing gear once. My first landing, my fingers were shaking so bad that she was wobbling in the turns just from my fingers!:) Well, I didn't slow down on landing and I clipped the elevator which I replaced.

On my second landing, I practiced and practiced and practiced my approach. I would chop the throttle and see how long she would glide for. And she glided a long time with hardly any loss in altitude!! This really helped my nerves. BUT, this was with the gear up and with out any flaps.

This f-15 didn't show any bad tendancies with the flaps at any setting, so I decided to land with my "mid" setting. I set up my box approach as above, chop my throttle before my cross wind approach and watch her like a hawk as she glided down wonderfully. Until I got 3 feet over the runway and she dropped straight down, nose up, right on the mains, about 100 feet before I wanted to touch down. And mind you I was still movin' along quite fast on that approach. I bent one of my mains, no internal damage. No big deal. What did I learn? The F-15 will need more nose up and THROTTLE on that approach. Anyone on RCU would have told me that. But that what we're here for.

I have learned that these two "trainer" airframes fly very well, but land very differently. And they differ the MOST, just. before. touchdown. The f-15 needs a little throttle (I think about a 1/5) on that final and the a-10x doesn't. I'll need to practice more on my f-15. When it comes time to fly my next jet, I'll need to practice my approach. Over and Over.

Sorry for rambling.....

Raf

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Im no expert however i will share the advice i was given with you and it has worked very well with me. Although I would add that I fly just about everything that aviates (gliders, jets, hotliners, electric, 3d, pattern, giant scale etc) and jets are by far the hardest fixed wing aircraft to land nicely due to in general their very high wing loading and high energy on approach, there is also the small matter of spool up times on turbines to get you out of any 'errors'. The advice i was given was to simply follow full size practice. Now this does generally work better with the bigger models that will stand a high-ish alpha landing whereas many small models (due to Reynolds factors) will not. So to follow full size practice you need to set yourself up an approach and 'fly by the numbers' at given markers, ie half throttle on entry into landing pattern, 1/3 throttle on base leg, half throttle on crosswind leg, and then on finals set approach angle to 5deg nose up, throttle set to maintain glide slope (to whatever works, sometimes this is idle on a prop job, this may take a little jockeying, and once you know what it is you could program it into a switch), at about 1-2ft above the runway start the flare, chop the throttle to idle and keep deepening the flare and holding back on the stick until mains and then finally nose leg gentley touches down. Alot of non-jet or large scale pilots disengage brain at this point and then things go wrong on the roll-out. Until the airplane has come to a complete stop (wherever that should be) you are still flying it, stay on the rudder, elevator and brakes managing them all until the aircraft is at a full stop. I cant count the number of times ive seen people switch off and flip the model over at the last minute due to lack of concentration and thinking the landing job was prematurely done.

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

It's been my observation that the majority of "bouncing after touchdown" landings (mine included) are the result of trying to touchdown too soon. This generally means that the nose gear touches the runway first. And if it does, you're just about gauranteed to go bouncing down the runway (or off the runway...)

For myself, once I'm in the flare and about 1' off the runway, I just hold it there keeping an eye on the nose gear. Once I'm sure that the nose gear is higher than the mains, I'll let it settle onto the runway. The next bit can also help. Once on the runway, I don't just let go of the elevator. I keep holding it until I'm sure that the jet is stuck to the runway. Then I relax the elevator and commence braking. You never know when a small crack or something else will cause the jet to lift off again after touchdown.

...jim

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Yep, it will only bounce if its still flying, the idea of the flare is to stall the model onto the runway therefore it isnt flying anymore and wont bounce back up no matter what.

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Jim , you are correct about touching down to soon. I went out this morning and put 3 more flights on. All with very nice landings. the secret seems to be in not trying to land. A good level wing line up and then let the plane go as long as it takes. I flew around on full flap/ gear down to really get an idea of the power I needed to safely manuver the plane into final aproach. I tried turning on final with partial power then chop throttle when approaching the runway. The plane wants to sink and builds up speed so i level off around 5 feet and let it run as i slowly pull up the nose as airspeed bleeds off. It was working today , anyway ....... Doug

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Jim, being relatively new to jets, I'm a little confused here. After touchdown, wouldn't it be correct to then move the elevator toward neutral and down elevator to keep it stuck to the runway? Holding in up and hitting a bump in the runway could cause the plane to lift again ????

I ask, because I am waiting for delivery of a Eurosport (I have 18months of flying a Baby Boomerang which almost lands itself) and have observed that high alpha landings seem to be the norm (on a Eurosport) and in my mind I've always worked through the landing as I've described here viz......on final approach get the nose up with elevator to create drag and slow things down, using throttle management to control the rate of descent, until touch down and then elevator to down??

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

The best advise I can give, already has been posted by two pilots:

Scott Harris: "Practice, Practice, Practice"

Joey Saprano: "Bad approach, go around"

I always do a gear pass and set up for landing with 2 minutes left on my timer, so if my approach doesnt "Feel Right" I go around and start over. I have over 600 flights on TamJet Superhornets, and I still need to do a go around about once every 10 flights. At California Jets, it took me 3 attempts to land Lou's Big Yellow twin F-18 because I just wasnt feeling the groove. The point Im trying to make is that most bad landings I have seen (many of them mine) have been from bad pattern work that gets even worse when you decide it will all get fixed if you just land the plane.
Good Luck,
Dave

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Absolutelly right... I also keep about 2 extra minutes on my timer when I start doing the first approach. If something dosn't feel good, just go around and try again, until you feel counfortable with the approach.

Michel

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Or until you run out of fuel....:D

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

The key to a consistant landings is to figure out it what location relative to the runway, altitude and speed you make that turn from downwind to base while in the pattern. This works with any and all aircraft, model or full scale.

RE: LANDING TECHNIQUES ???
 

Approach.................